Feedback Wanted on USPS Insurance Claims

by: terry

That's why USPS insurance is about useless, buyers are mad it got broken and now you have to rely on them taking it in for proof and usually on a Saturday because most PO's close by 5pm. Plus it takes 7-14 days for the PO to send the seller a request for proof of damage in the mail to give to buyer so they can take to the PO. Most want refund NOW and won't hang onto the damage item, they got their money, screw the seller.
I've been lucky this year so far, nothing broken(knock on wood) but filing that form  

by: terry

So do you tell them the problems in the message or do you have to request the form for the survey?

by: Norman

Agree with Terry and if it's over $100 like the battery I shipped and they lost then claimed they didn't, you're S.O.L. After 3 months of fighting with USPS, eBay, and the buyer, the package miraculously appeared on the buyer's porch. I've quit selling on eBay, for obvious reasons.  

by: Snapped

“ Our auditors are assessing how well USPS processes and pays domestic claims.“

The auditors have to start with the ‘process’ itself.  It needs better definition.  Much better.  

In this case, the specific procedures describing the various eligibility circumstances (they differ between ‘loss’ and ‘damaged’ as one example), specific descriptions of the red tape path AND identifying and having/making available various forms, PLUS the associated actions to take by all parties, is not well enough promulgated to the public, and certainly not very well trained to postal staff.  

This includes both the customer facing front line clerks, AND the back office rubber stampers who are responsible for investigating and fulfilling the insurance ‘contract’.  One that currently only supports sending off claim information into a void with indeterminate expectation, and no inability to obtain status.

Making matters worse is that when claims are (eventually) processed - bear in mind there are no third parties involved as the PO is self-insured - getting there is not a consistent experience for either the customer, OR the postal staff.  One day, either a check or a letter arrives.  And as the survey will illustrate, sometimes neither.

Compounding this whole deal is that although the receiver’s claim is with the sender, the claim may still require receiver ‘cooperation’ especially in the case of ‘damage’.  However, it is also not reasonable to expect the PO to compensate without evidence and they certainly have no interest to compel production of it even if they could, if lack of it supports claim denial.  So there’s that.  

Addressing that may require venue terms or support for seller terms (hahahahah, sorry) that compel buyers to ‘cooperate’ thereby as condition of sale before any due compensation to the buyer is enforceable on shipping claims.  (Incidentally, “free” shipping may gray this whole aspect and lock in seller risk - just a thought).

Anyway, that’s where it starts. Get the act together about the process.  The operational and investigative aspects that remain can then be addressed to better conform to that process.  

One more suggestion.  Let the humans work it all out BEFORE turning it over to a big box of electrical switches to ‘manage’.  And leave said carbon based units in charge, accountable, and reasonably available as they render final verdict and appeal for EVERY ‘disapproval’.  Let the bots burp out the approvals.  Nobody would argue with them then, even if they ‘could’.

by: Jones

I have sold on eBay for 30 years. I try not to send anything breakable through the Postal Service since they still throw their packages to sort them. However, sometimes I have and they have broken way more than UPS and FedEx. Since their new rule stating the buyer has to bring the box and contents in to a window unit, I have not been reimbursed once for the damage. None of my buyers have been willing to do that.  Postal Service has definitely lost a lot of money because of this policy due to lost business.

by: Snapped

1.  EVERY carrier ‘tosses’ packages to sort them.  And that’s AFTER the machines have knocked them around a bit.  Plus, USPS delivers a significant portion of UPS and Az packs too.

2.  Bringing packages in for inspection isn’t a ‘new’ rule.  It just was/is not always enforced (refer to previous post re:inconsistency).

3.  If this ‘policy’ results in ‘lost’ business, imagine what the losses would be if the PO just too the ‘word’ of their claimants.  They are not just verifying the damage, but also the suitability of packaging used.  Nothing can be shatterproof, but a lack of adequate packaging protection (duff) or use of flimsy or unsuitable containers (if it shakes, it breaks) is not just cause to blame the PO.  In other words, if ‘loss’ is inevitable because they are unwilling to open themselves to fraud, they’re gonna cowboy up to endure the least of whatever loss results as possible.  

And THAT is why it’s in the venue’s best interest (and the independent seller, via terms) to compel cooperation for claims before awarding payout.  Such then need not wait for claim results though, because recipient claim is still with seller anyway, but there’s no excuse for not trying.  Otherwise, dear patron, to avoid that ‘risk’ you might need to cooperate as a consequence of convenience gone wild, go put some pants on and brick and mortar ‘it’.  

Of course, that posture too, may result in sales decline, for the PO AND the seller, because, yeah, some buyers lack patience in these circumstances, and would seek less ‘restrictive’ terms, so there’s that.  

Anybody got a better idea, this is a good place to share it.

by: UB

@snapped Carriers do not sort the packages in the office to the routes, clerks do.

by: etectra

I sold on eBay for 27 years.

One low value uninsured item's tracking number was not updated after the first sorting center so the package was either stolen by someone within the carrier's network or it was delivered and the buyer wanted to commit theft.

One UPS package was damaged by a UPS forklift tine piercing the outer box, inner box and partially go through the inner molded foam insert. The product, aside form the product box, was not damaged. This was a large toy item and was sold just before Christmas. Buyer decided to keep item as there would be no way to obtain another one and I had none left. I gave the buyer a discount worth his while.

Back in the day a customer sent payment by taping some Susan B. Anthony dollar coins to a piece of typing paper and putting them in a envelope. They did not put these between and fiberboard or cardboard. The envelope arrive in a plastic bag indicating it had been damaged. Someone working for the carrier had steamed open the envelope flap, unfolded the page of typing paper, pealed off the tape strips and removed the coins, stuck the tape back down, refolded the sheet of typing paper and inserted in the envelope, finally closing the flaps. That is some amazing sorting the equipment USPS has to do all that without tearing the envelope or piece of typing paper.

My packages are damaged due to careful packaging standards. I do not shove items inside poly bags or bubble mailers to ship them out as those provide zero protection. Poly bags and bubble mailers are only used when the item can be first packaged inside a small box. The poly or bubble mailer increase the surface area for a label and make the items less likely to be stolen (i.e., shoved inside a coat) or lost as the package is physically bigger.

I do not use any eBay branded packaging as that is painting a bid notice on the package that says "PLEASE STEAL ME!. You should cross out any eBay branding on external packaging to make the packaging appear as its being reused. Use eBay branded tape, poly bags and bubble mailers as internal packaging only. Consider selling eBay supplies obtained from your store rebate to buy plain packaging supplies.

I use free boxes from local stores ranging from tiny to furniture size. The furniture size come in handy for creating custom boxes such as the one I made for a WWII steamer trunk that was shipped from the Midwest to California. I use free newspaper for packaging. I only use new kraft paper, newsprint and bubblewrap to provide some initial wrapping around the object and fill voids with free newspapers as this will save you a fortune over time.

In the past I also have used free USPS Priority Mail boxes, but int he last several years this have been confined to some flat rate boxes due to the introduction of Ground Advantage pricing.

Free used shopping bags are also a great packaging material. The thinner and semi-transparent High-Density Polyethylene (HDPE) provide a more delicate material. I've used these to pack the very delicate parts of a toy model into its retail box and not a single part was broken off a parts tree. Of course the model was also double boxed. Low-Density Polyethylene (LDPE) bags are stronger, thicker and can be stretched, with a good example being used at Menards stores.

I double box as needed. I triple boxed a rare hand made mug. Do not follow the advice of many of those so called eBay "experts" on Youtube where the motivation is to put up as much content as possible so they can monetize their channel via YouTube ads and earning money form affiliate links in the description. Many of these people give extremely bad advice that will greatly increase the chances your items will be damaged.

None of these experts have been able to explain how a piece of clothing put inside a poly bag or bubble mailer is protected from packages falling on it. Even if you wrap a piece of cardboard around the piece its not protected from crush damage. Strangely none of these so called experts are willing to wrap their hand in the same way and have someone drop a package weighing several pounds on it. You use a box because a box deflects crush damage around the object and the internal packing absorbs any shock damage transmitted inside the box. Poly bags and bubble mailers can also have their edges caught in the sorting machinery. The fact that you have shipped "X" amount of clothing items before and they were not damaged is not proof its safe. I can walk across the street in front of my house in this small town without looking many times, but sooner or later I will be hit by a car.

I've used standard 2" wide x 2 mil thick tape all those years. No need to waste money on thicker tape or extra wide tape. The key is overlapping cheaper tape at 90 degrees angles so the tape reinforces itself.

At the wholesaler I worked for pickers would quickly get into boxes by poking a small hole with the ballpoint pen that they were carrying in the piece of tape on the top of the box in the gap between the two top flaps. Pressing down on one flap while lifting up on the other flap would spilt the tape the entire length of the box regardless of how thick it was. Preventing your tape for being defeated by a single pinhole is accomplished by layering.

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A major problem with USPS insurance is that if you need to purchase insurance beyond the $100 you do not get credit for that $100, but are forced to purchase insurance for the full amount.

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One thing you have to make clear to the buyer is that if the carrier pays the insurance claim then the carrier is the rightful owner of the item. Wether or not the carrier wants to spend the resources to recover that item is another matter. You need to stress this to any buyer!

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Buyer cooperation is exactly why you should be wary of third party insurance from eBay, PirateShip and other label providers. You may not have any insurance if the buyer does cooperate.

by: Snapped

@ UB - “Carrier” as referenced was meant to describe the ‘businesses’ that deliver packages - the USPS, UPS, AZ, DHL, etc. as a entity, not a given USPS Letter Carrier.  

As you rightfully note, sorting at the delivery unit is not a letter carrier’s job.  And the APWU will be quick to remind everyone of that too.  But it would be interesting to meet a LC that has never done it at least once anyway.  But it’s not what I intended to describe here.