Should eBay Reimburse Sellers for Deleted Drafts?

by: Marie

Since Drafts don't cost you any fees on Ebay, there is nothing for them to refund anyone.  In the User Agreement that we all have to agree to in order to sell on Ebay  it states that they don't refund us for lose of time when site issues like this happen.  I forget how they word it as it has been a long time since I've read it.

I know it is frustrating.  I remember quite a few years back when Ebay lost ALL the pics on all my listings along with quite a few other sellers.  It was a pretty common issue.  Sellers had to go back into their listings and add pics back.  Now that was really time consuming for sure and so darn frustrating.  We got an I'm Sorry out of Ebay, but nothing more.

Until this item is fixed, save items you would normally do as a draft as a template.  Those are not getting lost.  Then when you are ready to post them, go into the template and post it.  You can then go back and delete the template if you don't need it anymore.  I know not as easy as a draft, but it is a work around until it is fixed.

Good luck.

by: Snapped

“.. it [eBay UA] states that they don't refund us for lose of time when site issues like this happen.”

True, and that’s pretty standard for almost any business that provides services that can sustain ‘outages’.  Caveat Emptor clause.  Use at your own risk.  There are no guarantees.

Unless it’s to guarantee delivery dates - at seller expense. Or guarantee unconditional buyer satisfaction with a purchase - at seller expense. Or guarantee forgiveness of buyer malfeasance - at seller expense.  You won’t likely be reimbursed for any of that either.

Those are in the UA too much of course.  Hypocrisy clauses.

Meanwhile, you can add yet another page to the Giant Book of eBay workarounds helpfully provided above, required so you can have a chance to safely tiptoe through the tulip patch eBay professes to be without having your legs taken out by one of their sanitized for your protection land mines you’re bound to trip without it.

They don’t put any of that in as a requirement of the UA of course.  Might as well be though.

by: AddyUp

Personally I've never used drafts. Always used scheduled listings instead. Moving dates when necessary.

Though I understand it wouldn't be a good idea for everyone as some get charged for this.

by: pace306

There will also be NO REFUNDS when @Walkerswest runs out of meatballs and spaghetti.

eBays UA is the gun used by the mafioso San Josian leg breakers when they do something wrong and dont want to have to pay up.

Snapped (of course) said it so much better - but when a seller (is even perceived) of doing something wrong - well - thats more money for eBay - cause why not?

BUT WHEN EBAY DOES SOMETHING WRONG ... "well - gosh dont ya know - its just how business is, your time and effort isnt worth squat (but please list more items) and IF we feel like doing something then MAYBE we will.

Good to know "eBay has your back"!! (they only have your back because thats where your wallet is and they want to clip you yet again).

I dont expect eBay to actually shell out some coin - that would be akin to the "second coming", BUT MAYBE - someone should go over to Uncle Grifters office, wake him up and ask him to go do SOME REAL WORK.

He does (from time to time) mumble "something something something sellers protection something something Im sleepy leave me alone".

by: Shanna

Ebay could add a clause demanding the sacrifice of your first born child and some people would defend that.  

by: pace306

Shana :)

eBay has long ago instilled in its sellers (and even some here) due to their policies, that we as sellers work for them.

Whether its creating eBays catalog for free (UPC numbers), or giving themselves full permission to keep and use anything (listing pics etc) you create as their own, to spending time (wasted time) with NUMEROUS site glitches - eBay has people "conditioned".

"eBay did it so its OK" is the rally cry you hear often. They can put FVF on shipping and its OK. eBay can tell you that they are giving you X in return for forcing you into certain policies (that you would otherwise never do) then yank it away without so much as an "Im sorry". eBay can hide your listings, devalue your listing (listings with 1 line of description routinely get pushed ahead of detailed lisitings and more.

Yet as a seller - every move is metered, every business practice you choose is watched and every error - even (and especially with SNADS) are unforgivable and punishable - with the money going SQUARELY (not to charity or some other good cause) but RIGHT to eBays pocket(s).

Hey, eBay gave out 75 cents a share last quarter and SOMEONE has to fund that !

eBay (in general) needs to punished like the government did to the airlines. Cancel/delay a flight, make your fliers wait etc - there's a penalty - and they enforce it.

On eBay there's no oversight by state, local or other government(s) as there's too much money being passed around.

Complain all you want, but Amazon goes under the microscope ALL the time, and eBay never does.

If eBay had to pay out with every glitch, every fake SNAD, every fake VERO - their behavior would be QUITE different.

But those already brainwashed, those who have already drunk a gallon or so of the Koolaid (VERO come get me) here will say "if you dont like it sell somewhere else or make other snide remarks explaining to us "simpletons" that "this is how business works!"

'nuff said

by: smallstuff

I start all listings on my own web pages and use templates to transfer them to eBay.  That way, I can create the listings when I choose and give my web customers first dibs on all new listings.  Once the listing is created, it exists in my webspace, archives, and backups (forever).  I understand why some people use drafts the same way, buy why not make a copy as a text document or a word document if you don't want to bother with a website.  I used to archive all the listings to eBay's TurboLister, but they took that away... I learned it the hard way.

by: wrslss1222

eBay has an obligation to support sellers.  Without sellers, there are no buyers, and without buyers and sellers there are no fees, and then in reality no eBay.  I wonder what would happen if a lawyer anywhere in the United States would start an annoyance lawsuit against eBay with a large group of sellers who believe they don't have to kiss eBay's butt.  This lawsuit would bring to light, through the media, the problems eBay is giving sellers.

by: woundedtiger

There should be unity amongst sellers. Think about it. Sellers are not united, so , we put up with it. Could you imagine if all sellers with stores would close up for a couple of days or longer? What would ebay and its shareholders do? What about the damage done publicly? Would ebay continue to do what they do to sellers? I think not. Comments please. .Just saying

by: spooky

I do same - I create around 40 fresh items drafts each week and I delete the photos once uploaded to eBay. I have not had this happen lately but it would create a huge amount of work for me, maybe 6 hours

by: pace306

Its really quite simple

Would you put up in real life, what eBay does to "you" online?

No, you wouldnt and you shouldnt have to either.

eBay is a website - they provide "online space" so YOU can sell YOUR items - seems they forgot that.

Take this GEM for example "Your listing may not be immediately searchable by keyword or category for several hours (or up to 24 hours in some circumstances). eBay can't guarantee exact listing duration,"

Now put PLUMBER or ELECTRICIAN in there instead and see if it make sence, We may may not be immediately available for several hours (or up to 24 hours in some circumstances). We can't guarantee that your water will work, come out of the faucet, be cold OR hot!

"The content you provide complies with all of our listing policies, including the Images, videos and text policy,"

Your HOUSE must comply with all of OUR policies and must be the right color, YOU must be the right kind of person - please state your political affiliation at the door, and you must pay us IN CASH ONLY - no cc's, no Zelle, no Quickpay.

"We may revise product data associated with listings to supplement, remove, or correct information"

You ordered a 55" TV from us, but we MAY as is our right, substitute a TV of another brand or size at our discretion." We also may change its color, shape or place it will go -(we dont deliver or install TVs into bedrooms).

"We strive to create a marketplace where buyers find what they are looking for. Therefore, the appearance or placement of listings in search and browse results will depend on a variety of factors"

We strive to create the atmosphere WE like, so we MAY or may NOT, service your neighbor first, we may not get to you at all, we may charge you but never show up, we may install something totally different or we may just sue you. We also could come in a wreck your home - YOU called us and therefore that gives us the right to DO AS WE PLEASE.

So, eBay wont ever value a sellers time - but THEIR time is important and is the ONLY thing that counts.

No more waiting 30 days to get paid - we want our money NOW, and you will wait for yours. And IF we decide that you dont deserve it - we will take it back - whether you like it OR NOT.

Sure .. go try and collect for time spent with no results .... you have a better chance of @WalkersWest catering your bday party next year for FREE.

by: Marie

@Pace
"If eBay had to pay out with every glitch, every fake SNAD, every fake VERO - their behavior would be QUITE different."  And you think other sites pay the seller for these issues?  I'm NOT defending Ebay in any way, I'd just like to know what sites actually pay sellers for these issues.  

by: Real Patriot?

I was one of the sellers who mysteriously lost pictures from my listings a few years ago. The disinterested talking head at Feebay asked me what kind of compensation I would like, considering the hours It would take to replace said photos. In shock, I requested a meager month of rent fees refunded. The rep agreed! Though, I never did confirm receipt of the refund. What are the chances I actually received it? Slim to none?

by: pace306

Marie

Good Question

I said (my opinion) is that eBay SHOULD pay out - its their error - so why not?

Lets please break this down in 4 parts

1) what others do or do NOT do. When your 5 yr old hits another child and you ask him why - he says "but HE hit me first - so its ok". A grown up replies ... "NO, its NOT ok - we DONT hit people". So what others (Amazon etc) do or dont do is in my mind irrelevant. eBay can be responsible for ITS OWN ACTIONS, no? Must they do EVERYTHING someone else does? If so - fine be like Southwest Airlines and pay the fliers back for the issues they encountered.

2) Mercari and Poshmark - they VERY rarely go down. Have you seen any columns on here that discuss those 2 sites having issues ALL the time? NO - if there are tons of columns that Ina posts about it that Ive been missing - PLEASE point me to them.

3) Amazon. As a 3p seller - you dont have your own listing - and you NEVER pay to have one. The ASIN pages are there or can be created - but you DONT own them. You as a seller FULFILL goods for Amazon. Its THEIR site and they LET you sell to THEIR customers (and take a HEFTY charge for it). On eBay, YOU as a seller pay for a service - to be seen. If You ARENT getting that service - then you should be reimbursed no?

Same thing when eBay hides your listing or puts adverts in YOUR listing. Its %100 unfair and sellers SHOULD get payed back or a cut of the sale - its only fair, right? The buyer would NOT have made the purchase had he NOT been on YOUR listing.

If you rent a billboard and post YOUR business, can I come by and put my own advertisement over yours? "Dont worry, it will just be a small part here on the corner!"

You would call up and complain IN A NY MINUTE that YOU payed for that space and NO ONE should be allowed on it until the contract is over.

Yet on eBay - ANYTHING and EVERYTHING is allowed/condoned and explained away.

If the glitches happened once in a blue moon, that would be something different, but its not just "once in a while" is it???????

4) Oh - Ive only been "in computers' since 1976 (go 8" floppies!" and Fortran) - why doesnt eBay have a back up?

As soon as a glitch rears its head - you switch back to the previous version and fix the NEW one. Then you redeploy the new version when traffic is the lowest as not to cause any more disruption then already has occurred.

Seems like eBay doesnt seem to REALLY care. 1/2 the time - they pretend it never even happened (like that insurance co ...... "like it never even happened".)

No you wont get a thin dime from eBay - but the shoddy service (all the way 'round) makes one think that if they had to (like an airline) - they would behave VERY differently.

by: Marie

@Pace
I know, we often expect Ebay to offer us stuff that no other site offers.  Don't know why, but many feel just as you do.  

Believe me, Amazon has made mistakes on my account that have cost be a great deal in sales and I got nothing from Amazon.  The most recent was that they don't recognize June 19th as a federal holiday and it just happened to be a very good selling weekend for me.  So I got dinged for a whole lot of late shipments.  Amazon was unwilling to do anything about it and believe me I tried.  I was told to just deal with it.  The low rating on shipping put my sales in the toilet for the next 30 days.  Most of my sales come from Amazon, so it really hurt.

by: pace306

Marie

You will have to please pardon me but I dont understand what this means "I know, we often expect Ebay to offer us stuff that no other site offers. Don't know why, but many feel just as you do."

1) None of the other sites are being mentioned here, so why bring them up (for comparison)?

2) Even if other sites do have the same issues - the topic is about eBay who has these issues happen ALL the time, as apposed to the others who do not.

3) Amazon is abysmal in it own ways and if Ina wants to publish an article on some of the things IT does - Im happy to jump on - like brand gating (my issue with them) but I dont run this site.

I gave more then a few examples of how eBay steals ANYTHING that isnt "nailed down" up to and including PEOPLES TIME.

Im sure you are quite aware of the old saying "time is money" - so there you go - if eBay wastes my time - maybe they SHOULD pay. They wont but they should. (would it really cost anyone anything if they gave out a few hundred listings here and there when they screw up as a thank you for dealing with THEIR issues?)

If Im paying eBay, and its their fault that I cant access my listings, cant make sales because they put other peoples listings in mine, demote my listings due to no fault of mine - shouldnt eBay have to pay aka be responsible?

Why does eBay get a free pass on ANY of it? Just because they are an online platform? Does that absolve them of ANY responsibility?

If I pay for a "store" (as I do) - dont I, shouldnt I - have FULL control over what goes on? Or for some reason is it ... they can do as they please?

If I want to create a website and skip paying for a store and FVF (on eBay) - then its on me and if Shopify or GO Daddy have issues - then it would be ON THEM.

When you have (for example) a Verizon outage - they make good - its happened to me and its called " a show of good faith". After all, I didnt do what ever it was that caused the outage so why should I have to suffer?

If eBay lost your pictures or listings - then its ON THEM.

But HERE we pay eBay and they SHOULD have a set of responsibilities in return - most of which ARE NEVER MET, EVER.

MOST are not met, because eBay has found a semi legal way of using the TOS to steal from sellers.

Hiding a listing is theft. Demoting a seller because of bad buyers (and theres no way to verify a buyer statements - this isnt a court of law) is also theft (that extra %5). There are LOTS of ways that eBay "skins the cat" - and treads legal water - so if theres an issue that NOT caused by the seller and caused by eBay - who then is responsible?

by: Marie

@ Pace
Much of what you talk about is covered in the UA that every member has to agree to when they sign up for Ebay.  So it isn't a surprise, theft or anything else that it could be called.  Signing up to sell on Ebay is a choice.

That isn't to say I like certain parts of the UA better than anyone else because I don't.  

As to this statement "Demoting a seller because of bad buyers (and theres no way to verify a buyer statements - this isnt a court of law) is also theft (that extra %5). "  Two things, if it is against the law, what law is it that they are breaking.  Similar statements have been made many times on the Ebay threads, but when asked what actual law are they breaking, no one can seem to come up with it, most just ghost the thread after the question is asked.

Second, I don't know what you mean by "buyer statements".  If you are referring to feedback, that has not been considered in the Seller Stats for a few years now.  So if a seller gets into trouble and end up in the status of Below Standard and hence the 6% additional FVF, it isn't because of FB.  

by: pace306

Marie

We veered off topic - but lets deal with the actual column first.

Should eBay reimburse sellers for wasted time? Unless Im mistaken thats what it was, and what Ive been trying to discuss.

Yes they SHOULD, but they wont.

For what ever reason, eBay doesnt believe that a sellers time or items or listings are valuable. Ive given 3? 4? 5? examples and in each case you? and others have simply stated "well since you signed up to sell on eBay that gives them carte blanch to do as they please, just because they can".

Am I right? I dont want to put words in your mouth, but it seems like thats the excuse you have for them doing ANYTHING they please "Much of what you talk about is covered in the UA that every member has to agree to when they sign up for Ebay"

When you sign up for ANY other service - and thats really what eBay is - a service company - can they do as THEY please as well?

I outlined the Southwest Airlines example of a company that provides service, but when it fails - reimburses its users.

If THEY can do it, why cant eBay?

I ALSO gave the example about Verizon (and other carriers). When their service goes down and its not the fault of the user - ALOT of times they discount or reimburse their users.

Its good customer service, it proves that they care, it proves that they value their customers - ALL THINGS EBAY DOES NOT - eBay HATES their sellers.

Getting back to your other question ""Demoting a seller because of bad buyers (and theres no way to verify a buyer statements - this isnt a court of law) is also theft (that extra %5). " Two things, if it is against the law, what law is it that they are breaking."

Its called "unjust enrichment". Unjust enrichment occurs when Party A confers a benefit upon Party B without Party A receiving the proper restitution required by law. This typically occurs in a contractual agreement when Party A fulfills his/her part of the agreement and Party B does not fulfill his/her part of the agreement.

eBay gives money or items to people with out compensating the seller.

eBay suffered no harm, what ever "harm" they claim is imaginary and ONLY MAY happen in the future. Therefore charging a seller a "punishment" for something that hasnt happened is a crime - its theft (from the seller).

eBay VERY rarely gets taken to court - BUT THAT DOESNT MEAN its not stealing from sellers - IN MANY MANY WAYS.

"Similar statements have been made many times on the Ebay threads, but when asked what actual law are they breaking, no one can seem to come up with it, most just ghost the thread after the question is asked."

There you go - I just answered it for you/them.

"Second, I don't know what you mean by "buyer statements". If you are referring to feedback, that has not been considered in the Seller Stats for a few years now. So if a seller gets into trouble and end up in the status of Below Standard and hence the 6% additional FVF, it isn't because of FB."

Its NOT feedback.

Party A - the buyer - states the item is SNAD. The seller - Party B says its not. eBay steps in and FORCES party B to take the loss WITHOUT PROOF. Too many strikes causes that %6. (Note its not relevant to me - I have %100 feedback).

The POINT is - that eBay has its finger on the scale and it only tips one way.

Its not about Feedback. Feedback is an antiquated 1 way system that USED to work before the HEAD DUMMY (GRIFF) got involved.

The over arching point here (as stated above): eBay does NOT value a seller, his/her time, his/her item, his/her length of time onsite or even the quality of the listing - eBay uses the UA/TOS to hurt its very users.

No, no one will get 1 thin dime from them - and its the SELLERS who have conditioned eBay that EVERYTHING is ok to do at all times - just because they can (like fvf on shipping and another sellers ads in your listing).

by: Snapped

eBay assumes your time is part of your overhead cost and built into the sale price f the item.  It’s your choice how and where and by what means to spend it.  

That is only one of the ‘costs of doing business’ they abdicate - as continually noted to be UA wrapped - but those are matters for elsewhen.  

Except to bear in mind that eBay offers a lot of seller ‘tools’ for free to keep all their programmers employed.  Tools for listing.  Tools for shipping.  Tools for tracking and accounting and communicating.  They all take time to use too.  Time frequently ‘lost’ for the same reason as here.  Inaccurate, deleted data.  Poor programming. Glitches. Outages.  Post enhancement snafu’s.  All adds up to a pretty low reading on the ol’ trustometer.  

No charge says eBay, so no foul.  Hey, you signed up for it, knowing all this:  eBay is a place where “you get what you pay for” will always apply - as long as you agree to not get what you’ll pay for too.

by: pace306

1) Cancelled Flight – A consumer is entitled to a refund if the airline cancelled a flight, regardless of the reason, and the consumer chooses not to travel.

2) Schedule Change/Significant Delay - A consumer is entitled to a refund if the airline made a significant schedule change and/or significantly delays a flight and the consumer chooses not to travel.

3) Class of Service Change - A consumer is entitled to a refund if the consumer was involuntarily moved to a lower class of service. For example, if the consumer purchased a first-class ticket and was downgraded to economy class due to an aircraft swap, the consumer is owed the difference in fares.

4) Optional Service Fees - A consumer is entitled to a refund of fees paid for an optional service (for example, baggage fees, seat upgrades, or in-flight Wi-Fi) if the consumer was unable to use the optional service due to a flight cancellation, delay, schedule change, or a situation where the consumer was involuntarily denied boarding.

5) Baggage Fees - A consumer is entitled to a refund if the consumer paid a baggage fee and his or her baggage has been declared lost by the airline.

There are MANY rules for airlines - who are like eBay - offer a paying service and then do not complete their portion of the agreement.

You cant TOS your way out of it.

I think we can all agree that eBays wasting your time with vanished drafts may not exactly fit into any of the above categories - BUT there are ALOT of things that eBay does that are EXACTLY the same explanation(s) are needed as to why eBay gets away scott free all the time.