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Sat Nov 2 2019 20:28:05

Reader Points to Limitation of New eBay Seller Protections

By: Reader

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Dear Ina,
Like many sellers, I found myself pleasantly surprised by the Fall Seller Protections eBay was putting in place in October. Finally, it felt like there was a possible reprieve from the false item not described returns and 50% fee increase linked to these events due to service metrics. I honestly thought, "Wow! eBay is doing something right." 

Today I was reminded just how unscrupulous eBay is. I mean, shame on me for not reading the fine print on this protection. After all, I am a Top Rated Plus Seller and I offer Free Returns. 

Being Top Rated Plus and offering Free Returns this new protection should be easy peasy, right? No. Not at all. Why?

Well you see eBay had no intention of actually protecting sellers like me with a high rate of false SNAD return claims. They had no intention of giving up that 50% fee grab. Here is the rub in all of this:

That's right - if you are already rated Very High in Service Metrics, there is no relief, there is no protection. As a matter of fact, they have even taken away your ability to refund less than full and do not offer return shipping credits either. Let me say this another way. You not only do not qualify for the new seller protections, they also take away the ones you previously had when offering Free Returns. 

The good ole Seller Protection update was just a sham. Lip service. They fully knew the people not affected by the Service Metric scam don't need the protection anyway. 

I found this out when speaking to an Agent today about a customer who opened up 9 Item Not As Described returns for shirts that simply did not fit. The representative was kind as always and stated they completely agree that these should be removed, but I do not qualify. 

I tried to explain to her that the reason I am considered very high (1.9%) is due to 90% of my returns being labeled not as described due to fit or color issues. She agreed completely, but stated there is nothing she can do. 

Shame on me for thinking eBay would really give up their 5% money grab that easily. Once again I find myself runneth over by the eBay Pain Train.
RJ



Comments (15) | Permalink

Readers Comments

Perminate Link for Reader Points to Limitation of New eBay Seller Pro   Reader Points to Limitation of New eBay Seller Pro

by: buffalochick This user has validated their user name.

Sat Nov 2 21:48:57 2019

No one here is at all surprised at your story. Kind of SOP for ebay.  

Perminate Link for Reader Points to Limitation of New eBay Seller Pro   Reader Points to Limitation of New eBay Seller Pro

by: pace306 This user has validated their user name.

Sun Nov 3 00:04:33 2019

Theres a reason eBay is known as the San Jose Mafia.

The Mafia NEVER gives up its take (the %5 VIG) - they have you by the b@lls and they dont intend to let go.

As a seller YOU are always wrong - even when you are right.

"Never give a sucker oops SELLER an even break"

EVERYONE here said the "new seller protections" were a sham. We all said it was "window dressing for the SEC statement and for Wall Street".

eBay is a criminal organization that pretends its an ecommerce site, period.

Now back to Dr Stone or some other good use of your time.

Perminate Link for Reader Points to Limitation of New eBay Seller Pro   Reader Points to Limitation of New eBay Seller Pro

by: ebayisscrewed This user has validated their user name.

Sun Nov 3 06:46:38 2019

We noticed that we no longer had the option to send partial refunds several weeks ago and thought it must be a glitch.   Now we know it is a restriction.    

We are turning off Free Returns immediately.   After reading this it  is clear to me that there are no longer any benefits to it.    

Perminate Link for Reader Points to Limitation of New eBay Seller Pro   Reader Points to Limitation of New eBay Seller Pro

by: FeelingFroggy This user has validated their user name.

Sun Nov 3 08:04:10 2019

All those " To be eligible requirements" are nothing but carrots. Enjoy the jumping for them. The rest of us just run our business the way we want,

Perminate Link for Reader Points to Limitation of New eBay Seller Pro   Reader Points to Limitation of New eBay Seller Pro

by: RL15 This user has validated their user name.

Sun Nov 3 10:44:51 2019

no surprise..fleecebay doing what they do best.

lies and screwing with sellers

Perminate Link for Reader Points to Limitation of New eBay Seller Pro   Reader Points to Limitation of New eBay Seller Pro

This user has validated their user name. by: toolguy

Sun Nov 3 10:46:26 2019

@pace306

Are you British?

I ask because as an American I have NEVER written down a percentage before the number aka "(the %5 VIG)"

Just like today is 11-3-19, not 3-11-19

VIG? Boy you really were hooked on the Soprano's

Perminate Link for Reader Points to Limitation of New eBay Seller Pro   Reader Points to Limitation of New eBay Seller Pro

This user has validated their user name. by: Marie

Sun Nov 3 15:33:21 2019

There is nothing in the new Seller Protections offered for TRS that states it is retroactive, so the disappointment that it isn't retroactive isn't really something anyone should be upset with Ebay for.  They never claimed it would.

I agree that the protections need to go further and it needs to help sellers that aren't TRS.  The new protections are a good place to start, but Ebay has a long ways to go.  

It is beyond ridiculous that a seller can't dispute a SNAD even with an abundance of proof and have any hope of Ebay even considering it.  

So yes they need to improve this process and hopefully very soon.  But the OP is expecting something retroactive that was never said to be or that it would be retroactive.  

And nothing was in the "small print", that suggests that Ebay was hiding something in tiny print somewhere in the policy.  That is simply not true and meant to suggest Ebay was hiding something.  We may not like what the policy has to say, but that is different than it being hidden.  It is there, you just need to read the policy.

To be eligible for Top Rated Seller protections (starting October 1, 2019) you must:

Be a US Top Rated Seller at the time of the protection
Reside in the US (including US territories)
Offer 30 day or longer returns
Only give partial refunds to recoup the actual lost value of the item when it is returned in a different condition than the original item
Only report buyers for opening false item not as described returns where you correctly described the item
Not be rated 'Very High' in Service metrics

I don't like that final point either.  I firmly believe Ebay can do better and they should do better.

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/selling-policies/sel
ler-protection-policy?id=4345

Perminate Link for Reader Points to Limitation of New eBay Seller Pro   Reader Points to Limitation of New eBay Seller Pro

by: ebayisscrewed This user has validated their user name.

Sun Nov 3 21:03:37 2019

Marie . . . you are wrong.  

Where does Ebay say that protections previously offered to TRS + Sellers are no longer allowed?   They removed our ability to partially return.  This is new.  

Your point about the policy being retroactive is the point of the OP.   The people that are Very High due to BS claims are the people that need the help and EBAY knows this.   These are the same people that EBAY is allowed to steal fees from.   GMV declines and profits rise.  This is how it happens.   Really Marie?   I know you like to try your best to be objective, but you really missed the mark here . . . as you often do.  

Perminate Link for Reader Points to Limitation of New eBay Seller Pro   Reader Points to Limitation of New eBay Seller Pro

by: pace306 This user has validated their user name.

Sun Nov 3 22:26:04 2019

Tool

I’m third gen American, before that eastern EU.

Yes I like(d) the Sopranos- it gave me insight into how eBay works (as did Goodfellas and The Godfather.)

Ebays playbook is straight out of those tv shows/movies

Perminate Link for Reader Points to Limitation of New eBay Seller Pro   Reader Points to Limitation of New eBay Seller Pro

by: Chicago48 This user has validated their user name.

Mon Nov 4 01:37:20 2019

OP - do you depend on Ebay for your livelihood?

Perminate Link for Reader Points to Limitation of New eBay Seller Pro   Reader Points to Limitation of New eBay Seller Pro

This user has validated their user name. by: Marie

Mon Nov 4 02:07:20 2019

@ebayisscrewed

I think what you mean are the separate set of benefits a seller can get for having the Free Return policy.  A seller does not have to be TRS to offer Free Returns and the benefits of having free returns applies to all sellers that have this particular return policy.

Now your concern is a good one and one I've brought up to Ebay before.  While they do take away those benefits if you fall into the Very High category on the Service Metrics, it is hard to find in the policy pages.  Ebay is aware of this, but I have no idea when it will be corrected.

My point about the new Oct. 1st policy is and was it was NEVER stated by Ebay that it would be retroactive.  It is an expectation that you, the OP and probably others have that are certainly going to cause you great disappointment.  Ebay never even hinted that it would be retroactive.

I wasn't speaking to all the ills of Ebay.  Just what the OP came here to talk about.  But you are correct, there are a great deal of problems on Ebay, of that there is no doubt.

Perminate Link for Reader Points to Limitation of New eBay Seller Pro   Reader Points to Limitation of New eBay Seller Pro

by: Snapped This user has validated their user name.

Mon Nov 4 06:42:05 2019

Redirecting attention to the fine points of the 'process' instead of the substance? Lot of that going around these days.

So 'protection' is finally become an admitted need for eBay to address proactively. But some are declared ineligible for ir? Are they not just as prone (perhaps objectively moreso) to the frauds and dishonesty eBay invites to their venue and admits need to reduce?

There's a clear analogy for this 'protection racket' extortionist behavior of course. Payola for a 'supersized' service package is one thing, but wrapping an admittedly necessary fraud shield into that dangle - when eBay's 'process' actually encourages buyer shenanigans - with reinforcement for it considering those who will not BE shielded - well there has got to be some hungry ESQ. out there who wants to advocate against the illegality of that kind of racketeering.

Wrong is wrong always. Retroactively too.

Speaking of which, doesn't eBay already have a rich precedent of 'protecting' (aka scrubbing) the service metrics of sellers they favor? Bet those would not have met the 'eligibility requirements' of note.

Or is that just another fine print process precedent unworthy of focus too?

Perminate Link for Reader Points to Limitation of New eBay Seller Pro   Reader Points to Limitation of New eBay Seller Pro

by: ebayisscrewed This user has validated their user name.

Mon Nov 4 10:03:25 2019

@Marie

The new seller metrics protection policy took away our ability to issue partial refunds.   We were able to do so until this new "Seller Protection" plan went into place.  Meaning the Seller Protection policy removed the benefits that sellers offering free returns previously had regardless of seller metric standing.   This started OCT 1.  

As for confusing Return Policy benefits with the Seller Protection of Service Metrics.  No . . . not really.   Metrics are based on the eBay Return System.   A system that is easily, and admitted by ebay, gamed by buyers on eBay.    For years buyers have been trained to claim not as described to get a full refund and free return shipping.   Ebay knows this.   They admit this.   So what do they do?  The come up with a plan to rate sellers on this gamed system and then charge 50% more fees for those affected.   This is criminal behavior.   The return system generates false data that the service metrics then uses to generate additional revenue for eBay.  

No, they did not say it would be retroactive, but they didn't say it wouldn't be either. . . . well not in the first 99% of the announcement.  They came out saying sellers would have protection.   Much needed protection from the false SNAD returns generating false service metric standings.  Then at the very very bottom of it, after touting the greatness of it, they state that those of you already screwed by the service metrics and by BS returns will continue to be screwed.  There is no way out.   Marie, please ask yourself, If it is truly meant to be seller protection, why would Ebay exclude the sellers most affected by the service metrics?

I think I know the answer;  This is corporate spin and greed at its finest.  

Again, I am not confused by returns or service metrics.  I know the correlation and the intimacy of their relationship.  To me, they are essentially one and the same.  You can not speak of one without involving the other.   That would be like just saying Bonnie and not including Clyde.    

Perminate Link for Reader Points to Limitation of New eBay Seller Pro   Reader Points to Limitation of New eBay Seller Pro

This user has validated their user name. by: Marie

Mon Nov 4 14:14:48 2019

@ebayisscrewed

I know and I don't agree with it either.  Often what happens here is because I can explain something that Ebay does or doesn't do, depending on the subject, it is assumed that I agree with them.  Nothing could be further from the truth.  

This Simplified Return system Ebay started is nothing but bad news for sellers.  It is wrong on so many points.  And yes, you are correct, even Ebay will admit this.  They also say they are working on improving it, yet we are over a year into this policy and it isn't improving yet.  It can't possibly take this much time if their desire to improve the system were genuine.  

The argument for this policy to be retroactive if just wishful thinking.  And while I firmly agree there are many things that Ebay could improve upon in this arena, I also believe it is unfair and silly to be upset with Ebay for not making this policy retroactive when they never said, implied or suggested that they would.  It is just a waste of your anger and not worth your time.  It isn't ans wasn't anything they would have done anyway.  So again, just wishful thinking.

Oh you have the wrong girl.  I have NEVER said I support the Service Metrics.  I've been extremely vocal on this site, on Ebay and anywhere else I may travel about this subject.  I have repeatedly called it the single worst policy Ebay has ever forced upon us in all my years on Ebay.  So again, do not take my ability to explain the policy with my support of the policy.  It is just not the same thing.  I just choose to keep informed, it is nothing more than that, even though some love to make it seem differently.

Perminate Link for Reader Points to Limitation of New eBay Seller Pro   Reader Points to Limitation of New eBay Seller Pro

by: ebayisscrewed This user has validated their user name.

Tue Nov 5 08:45:53 2019

@Marie

I never stated you support the service metrics.  I truly believe the only people that support those are the executives and Wall Street.  

My response to you was in regards to you thinking I have the benefits of free returns and the new seller protection policy confused.   I do not.    I am extremely well versed in eBay policy and protocols.   While I agree Marie that for the most part you do a good job of explaining things in a basic black and white fashion, I feel your explanations often leave out the more advanced "Gray" areas that eBay is so well known for.   Anyone that has deep understanding of eBay knows that the policies created are never a simple black and white.   For example, you stated yourself that with the current policy eBay knows that things are buried or not straight forward.  This is intended.   They have a 20 year history of this behavior - with it getting much worse during the rise of Donahue and Wenig.   Do not even get me started on Brian Burke.  

My point was the two (seller metrics/seller protection policy and free returns benefits) are intimately related.   For example, with the new seller protection policy and that last line about Very High eligibility, eBay removed a previous benefit of offering free returns to a group of sellers (those they claim are very high against their anonymous peers).  The benefit:  offering partial refunds.    You see it does not matter whether you are TRS+ or not.   We are.  The benefit is gone due to our Service Metric standing and and EBay's hollow protection policy.  We had the benefit of partial returns until the new Seller Protection went into effect.

As for not getting upset with eBay?  I disagree with you here, too.  It is not a waste of time.   I wish more people would get upset with eBay and stand up to their nonsense.   Maybe then eBay would be forced to change some of their obvious revenue generating policies guised in the cloak of buyer or seller protection.  

We are not enemies Marie and I think we understand each other.   While you may peel back a few layers of the onion, there are some of us that go all the way to the core.    



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