eBay Sides with Buyer Making False SNAD Claim

by: windsorbear

Just another reason why you should not sell high-dollar items on eBay.  I will not sell anything there with a value greater than $10... usually $5 or less.  I do not trust this "venue," nor most of its buyers.

by: makinmagic

It's ebay's new "business policy". I had two cases like this recently, one was about a mysterious smell and another was when the pants didn't fit. Both opened SNADS and I was forced to accept both of them, ebay plain out told me that for the past 1.5 months they have implemented new business policy that they will no longer support sellers in cases of fake SNADS, we now have to accept a return no matter what.

Here is a quote from ebay rep via ebay's facebook page:

I understand your concerns with this return. It is correct that we cannot change the return reason if a buyer opens a case for 'Item not as described'. We’ve found that interpreting the messages between a buyer and seller hasn’t always been the best way to determine the reason for a return. Even when there have been possible indications that the reason selected was incorrect, we have later found that the request was in fact valid and should have been accepted. These kinds of errors create incredibly poor experiences for our buyers and as such, harm our community and the long term success of our sellers.

by: sasikat9

When your trading partner continually stabs you and you continue to do business with them you can hardly complain about the stabbing.

by: angryllama

@Sasiskat.   Time to FLIP THE SCRIPT and metaphorically Bring a GUN to a KNIFE fight.  

NO, I'm not suggesting VIOLENCE, but if eBay doesn't get DOPE SLAPPED Every Time by angry sellers they will NEVER change their illogical and wealth-destroying policies.....  and it will only get WORSE over time.  

No one who sells on eBay should embrace the Dark Side's ( eBay's ) silly would-be changes of FREE RETURN SHIPPING or GUARANTEED 3 business day Arrival.  BOTH are essentially in denial of reality and Hazardous to Seller's wealth.

Don't fall into the LOGIC TRAP of "... oh, I've sold on eBay for years and returns have been FEW and FAR BETWEEN...."  

Sure they have.  The OLD policies put stumbling blocks in front of LIAR BUYERS ( low blocks, but a LOW block is vastly better than NO blocks at all ) and those LOW Blocks winnowed out SOME of the bad experiences.

The more brain-dead sellers who willingly place their own heads into the noose the MORE NOOSES will be dangling from the gallows waiting to ensnare those who KNEW BETTER and don't stick their own tongue in a light socket the FIRST time.

by: Rexford

I am begging an Avenatti style attorney out there (anyone reading?) to come forward with your PR team and helps us out.  I have recently been on the receiving end of a buyer scam myself.  They will do nothing if a buyer ships you back a box of rocks.  NOTHING!  There is no seller protection for sellers.

Scammers paradise.

Every time you are scammed by eBay contact at least 5 consumer watchdogs and see if they will pick up your story.   And file a fraud claim with USPS or your whoever the shipping service is.

by: FidoMaster

Remember the Comcast customer service call from hell that went viral a couple years ago?

How about the Aol customer service call a few again years before that? (dating myself with that one)

Anyone calling into eBay about should be recording the call and making it public when warranted.

These Kafkaesque scenarios are all the more alarming and impactful when people can hear the absurd crap regurgitated by Wenig's minions from an actual call (and is more likely to get picked-up if you were to pursue Rex's good suggestion).

by: iheartjacksparrow

This is just another way for DW to realize eBay's objective of removing all small sellers from the site. The more money the sellers lose (the cost of doing business on eBay), the faster they will leave.

Anyone who doesn't have their own web site or haven't branched out to other marketplaces is setting themselves up for the ruination of their business.

The only thing eBay cares about is keeping their buyers happy so they'll continue to visit the site and buy cheap Chinese phone chargers and whatever brand they are pushing that week (i.e., Adidas). eBay is not your partner, not your friend, and doesn't care if you lose everything.

by: RL15

fleecebay doing what they do best....steal from the sellers.

by: toolguy

@Fidomaster, are you advising people to break the law & commit a FELONY?

Some states if not most have wiretapping laws which require that both parties agree to be recorded. If you tell a eBay Customer Rep you are recording the call they'll hang up on you. . .

by: val2525

EVERY single time you get a false SNAD claim from a buyer, you need to:

1.  Report the buyer thru the report buyer listing.

2. Call eBay and report the buyer.

3. Contact eBay via the eBay for Business Facebook page.

4. Be sure to point out in each case above if the buyer is also a regular seller.

We can't get eBay to remove the SNAD return option, that's required by the FTC. But we can get eBay to start arbitrating better, or raise the SNAD percentage that we'll be allowed before being punished.

If enough sellers push back on this, we CAN get change.  We've done it before.

by: Rexford

A sampling of state laws as it relates to recording customer service calls:

Arizona: One party must consent
• California: All parties must consent
• Florida: All parties must consent
• Georgia: One party must consent
• Illinois: Unclear—so get two-party consent to be safe
• Indiana: One party must consent
• Massachusetts: Two-party consent; secretly recording calls is illegal
• Michigan: All parties likely must consent—but courts are divided
• Missouri: One party must consent
• New Jersey: One party must consent
• New York: One party must consent
• North Carolina: One party must consent
• Ohio: One party must consent
• Pennsylvania: All parties must consent
• Tennessee: One party must consent
• Texas: One party must consent
• Virginia: One party must consent
• Washington: All parties must consent
• Washington, D.C.: One party must consent

Now, if your call begins with "this call may be recorded for training purposes", does that qualify as a "one party must consent", and allow the other party to record.   AND, will eBay customer service hang up if you tell them that you are recording the call?

by: val2525

Seems to me if the call starts with "this call may be recorded" and the CSR does not ask for your consent, the CSR has consented themself to being recorded. There is your first party consent right there.  If you record on your end, you've consented as well.  So I'd record anyway. It may not be allowed in court, but I doubt any seller will get that far anyway.  But being able to quote verbatim what the CSR told me would be worth it. Especially when eBay plays back the call to find out what was said by the CSR.

by: val2525

Add to the consent list:

Utah: One party must consent

Isn't that where the main U.S. call center is?

by: CanBrit

If my efforts to make a customer happy, who bought a pair of damaged earrings  from me, knew they were damaged, it was listed as damaged, she complained that two diamonds were missing.
In an effort to placate her, I sent her a small diamond band and said to use the diamonds to repair the earrings. Two weeks later she opens up a return, item not as described??? eBay supports the return. She doesn't return the ring. Ebay says my fault. Then she leaves me lousy feedback. eBay removes the wording but leaves the negative.
They are crooks, each and every one of them.

by: FidoMaster

Toolguy, I've seen you write many ill-informed posts before, but I’ve largely written it off as difference in our perspective and experience.

While I wrote the post, I thought there was a small chance someone might bring up the legalities of interstate call recording law, thought I didn’t expect such an ignorant comment, even from you.

I’m not an expert, but this is a subject I happen to actually know a little bit about.

By all means, consult your attorney (and publicist if you have one) before you take action or reach out to the press or otherwise publish your call on YouTube, Reddit, or somewhere else.

I’m not offering legal advice, just my thoughts on driving change as customers and consumers.

I’m going to oversimplify some ideas from this point forward so that you can follow along.

Federal law stipulates that only one party has to give consent when recording calls, though laws by states do vary.

To the best of my knowledge it is actually not possible to commit a felony in any state (based solely on ''wiretapping laws'' anyways) provided you’re not conducting criminal activity and you’re an actual participant in the conversation. If I’m wrong please correct me and cite your source and evidence of an actual felony conviction.

I'll save you some time, you won't find one.

eBay’s Draper call center in Utah is a one-party consent state. As long as you are a participant in the call, regardless of whichever state you’re calling from ,you’re in the clear as far as federal and state .

I recently watched a YouTube video where the wronged seller made the mistake of asking the Draper rep for permission to record the call (after already have been given notice by the automated attendant that the call was being recorded). Of course the rep is going to say no -- that’s what they’re trained to do. If you feel morally compelled to disclose, don't ask for permission, simply state you're recording the call as part of your opening reason for calling.

Even so, I still _personally_ recommend friends and family record every call with any company when are addressing legitimate complaints. What to do with those recordings of egregious wrongdoings is always going to be a balance of personal risk-taking, conviction of purpose, intestinal fortitude, and potentially the value of time, effort, and dollars to pursue the matter further.

by: Snapped

Anybody want to bet against eBay's next step being the complete elimination of SNAD as a 'reason' to compel accepting a return?

Or rather, eliminating ALL options completely.  They're obviously moot at this point.

They just need to wake up their coders.  Don't even need to tell anybody else about it either, apparently.

Ya heard it here first.  Sorry.

by: Slowest Learner

@ the OP
First, sorry for your conundrum, but you must be new to ebay.  This has been going on for many many years.  The buyer is ALWAYS right no matter how silly or outrageous.  I've had completely different items returned, and ebay said I was lying.  I had a piece of junk mailed back just to add weight to the shipping box, and ebay still sided with the buyer even though I had pictures.  The ebay representative told me on the phone that I was lying and my pictures were photoshopped, and that a buyer has never scammed a seller.  The buyer is ALWAYS right

by: quirkyantiques

Lol Sasikat wins the comments section for this one-succinctly put!

by: Grady

When you list an item on FeeBay, and someone clicks on it, you no longer own it. It belongs to the venue, they can and will give it away. If you are lucky, you will get paid for the item. But you have no rights, and your item and money belong to a third party, and sometimes they compensate you, sometimes they don't. You agree to that by using their platform, you are playing a game of poker with crooks. House always wins

by: Grady

@sasikat9,
The first time or two you're a victim. After that, you're a volunteer