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Sun Apr 23 2017 09:27:47

eBay Ignores Seller Documentation Proving Fraud

By: Reader

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Dear Ina,
eBay is beyond stupid! We sell small value items on eBay and sold 10 such items to customer who later asked to return them via the return process, which we approved. Total ticket about $45. 

The customer returned items that were not ours. Taking good photos, opening a case to get assistance with the issue, submitted those photos with clear and concise details that anyone "should" understand (unless your a bot, right?), we get notice that we lose about 10 hours later because we should accept the fact that "customer's can damage items" and we submitted "no photos" or proof. Duh! 

So we're out the cost of the merchandise, the outbound shipping, the refund including the original shipping all to get back items that we didn't even sell. Cheap China crap no less! I suppose we should be happy to have 10 pieces of junk at least in our hands LOL.

We have been selling since 1981 when we started out in mail order, have been selling online since 1996 with a website and selling on eBay since they started. We are successful. 

While we have a commitment to honor and serve our customers, we find it very hard to do the right thing(s) using the eBay platform. eBay forces things to a "take it or leave it" mode not giving the good seller a method to do the right thing for the customer. 

Selling on a handful of different platforms, eBay is the worse of the venues when it comes to handling problems. And we don't just sell a few items, we know how each platform works at a volume pace. 

Amazon is a close second to this nonsense but at least we can escalate things on that platform and get someone with a brain instead of a script to read. Both platforms have the pretense of good customer service for the buyer and a penalizing customer service for their sellers. And we realize we have to accept things beyond our control unfortunately.

As platforms or venues go, eBay should wise up and get out of brain dead mode, but they won't. They are trying to pretend to be another venue and frankly that will be the downfall. It never will be a Amazon.  

Should eBay be worried when their long term sellers are frustrated and angry? I would if it were my company and platform. But then again, eBay would have to care about the core issues which once made their platform great and are now failing in that role in almost every manner. Of course investors or shareholders can and will sink a good ship. Just ask the giant Radio Shack how that worked!

$45 isn't going to really be missed, but if I were selling items in the 100s or 1000s of dollars or more on a casual or routine basis, I would be concerned about a platform and mode of operation that could cause me to lose big time! Smoke and mirrors!
D.




Comments (29) | Permalink

Readers Comments

eBay Ignores Seller Documentation Proving Fraud   eBay Ignores Seller Documentation Proving Fraud

by: pace306 This user has validated their user name.

Sun Apr 23 09:38:25 2017

eBay doesnt care about your issues (or mine or anyone elses).

eBay wants successful sales NOT successful sellers and thats really what its all about.

In eBays eyes, sellers are a dime a dozen and buyers are gold. Thats why you can report buyers will kingdom come and nothing ever happens. Thats why buyers can weasel out of sales (which eBay says is a contract) with no fear of harm.

eBay sees seller losses as the cost of doing business on its glorious %3 a quarter profit platform.

And neither YOU nor I nor anyone else is going to get in the way of all that cash being filtered into DW and JD's bank account, NO ONE.

eBay Ignores Seller Documentation Proving Fraud   eBay Ignores Seller Documentation Proving Fraud

This user has validated their user name. by: Rexford

Sun Apr 23 09:39:26 2017

This is fraud. File a postal fraud case and follow through with it.

At some point eBay sellers have to be of the frame of mind "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore".  As you can see, we get no support from our "business partner", aka eBay.

eBay Ignores Seller Documentation Proving Fraud   eBay Ignores Seller Documentation Proving Fraud

This user has validated their user name. by: eXtinctBay

Sun Apr 23 09:55:17 2017

And this is why there are tutorials online to teach ''buyers'' how to get free stuff from eBay.

What the scammers do not realize (or care about) is that they are not stealing from a billion dollar company, but someone looking either to supplement their income or put food on the table.

While eBay just tells the victimized seller that it is just the cost of doing business, and all stores have an allowance for losses in their business plan.

Brick and mortar stores have security cameras, electronic sensors attached to expensive merchandise, and high end goods are placed in display cases so they do not walk out the door. They do what is necessary to prevent theft.

This seller did their due diligence so they would not be ripped off, and all the evidence to support their side of the story. And eBay does not care- the buyer is happy, and this is all that matters.

Yes, good thing this wasn't an expensive item (like David Tarver's iPhone). It is frankly scary to sell anything on eBay with a high value because of the fear of fraud.


eBay Ignores Seller Documentation Proving Fraud   eBay Ignores Seller Documentation Proving Fraud

by: Scotty This user has validated their user name.

Sun Apr 23 10:11:39 2017

As Rexford states, follow through with the Fraud complaint with USPS, file a police report both in your jurisdiction and the buyers and sue them in small claims court...all the above.  If you do not do this, they get away with it plain and simple.  Ebay ONLY care about bad press...try to get a reporter interested in the situation as well and watch how quick they respond.  Otherwise, you are on your own as ebay will do nothing to help you and everything to assist the fraudster.

eBay Ignores Seller Documentation Proving Fraud   eBay Ignores Seller Documentation Proving Fraud

This user has validated their user name. by: RKTOYS

Sun Apr 23 10:21:07 2017

I absolutely do not agree that eBay is worse than Amazon on this point.

Last month, I had a customer in FL steal a very expensive (~$120) Japanese figure from me.  The post office delivered it as they always do.  The customer filed a "where's my stuff?" complaint and ignored my response.  Immediately after, they filed an A-Z claim, where Amazon told me to contact the customer again (don't ever do this, only respond to Amazon).  They ignored that second attempt to help them.  Amazon summarily closed the case in their favor.  Delivery confirmation and a completely non-responsive customer were not enough.  When I appealed, it was immediately rejected with no explanation.

Unfortunately for Amazon, they'd already paid me and now seem unable to steal the money back.  It's kind of funny to receive daily threats from a company that responds to maybe 25% of my order inquiries.  My last order, of flippin' office supplies, took 54 days before they went "uh oh Spaghetti-O!" and cancelled.

I've filed mail fraud charges against the thief as Rexford suggests.  The USPS sounded like they took it very seriously.  I haven't heard anything back in awhile though so I don't know what the outcome was.

eBay Ignores Seller Documentation Proving Fraud   eBay Ignores Seller Documentation Proving Fraud

This user has validated their user name. by: eXtinctBay

Sun Apr 23 10:44:42 2017

@RKTOYS

Was this package on Amazon sent with postage purchased through them? Supposedly, you are covered against non-receipt claims if you use their shipping labels.

This was put into place because many buyers complained about sellers sending packages which required a signature upon delivery. And they had to make either special trips to the post office or abandon the package if not home during the day.

Amazon previously would not accept mere delivery confirmation tracking as evidence of delivery, so they basically forced sellers to purchase signature confirmation so they would be paid.

So, to keep their customers happy, they are accepting the risk. Or are they?  

eBay Ignores Seller Documentation Proving Fraud   eBay Ignores Seller Documentation Proving Fraud

This user has validated their user name. by: iheartjacksparrow

Sun Apr 23 10:49:34 2017

@D. (OP) - To add to what Rexford and Scotty stated, also file a report online with the FBI's internet fraud site. And be sure you inform the buyer of each step you are taking as he/she might have an epiphany and realize they returned the wrong items to you and want to make things right before they drown in legal bills.    

eBay Ignores Seller Documentation Proving Fraud   eBay Ignores Seller Documentation Proving Fraud

This user has validated their user name. by: RKTOYS

Sun Apr 23 14:49:47 2017

@eXtinctBay
No, I went through my USPS account like I have for years.  I never expected Amazon to rule against me if I had proof of delivery, let alone an uncooperative customer following the scam like clockwork.  I'm now not just insuring anything over $100, I'm forcing signature confirmation too.  Hate to have to do it but I can't afford to lose that kind of money.

Also closed all of my listings on Amazon and will be aggressively searching for other places to shop.  Hope making that weasel happy was worth it to them.

eBay Ignores Seller Documentation Proving Fraud   eBay Ignores Seller Documentation Proving Fraud

by: RL15 This user has validated their user name.

Sun Apr 23 17:59:21 2017


Besides all the above good advice...

IC3.gov is a site you need to file a complaint. You will a complaint number.

When you call fleacebay, make sure you let them know you filed a complaint and give them the complaint number.

I had a similar situation before I quit using fleacebay. They reversed the the claim and gave me my money back.

Good luck

eBay Ignores Seller Documentation Proving Fraud   eBay Ignores Seller Documentation Proving Fraud

by: handmedownheaven This user has validated their user name.
Web Site

Mon Apr 24 00:32:53 2017

Selling used clothing we would think fraud would not affect us.  But our last 2 sales that shipped to different parts of the country both frauded us.  Like new clothing items and of course both people said the items smelled like smoke and belonged in the trash....and wait for it....was not worth sending back to me.  Non smoking house, all clothing laundered then fabric freshener sprayed.  Closed my ebay store and as each item expires it is not being relisted.  Through with ebay, that's why we have our own site with prices lower than we could sell for on ebay

eBay Ignores Seller Documentation Proving Fraud   eBay Ignores Seller Documentation Proving Fraud

by: rachel This user has validated their user name.

Mon Apr 24 01:12:06 2017

Scotty  - Small Claims Court only works if the buyer is in your state and you have to file in the county of the buyer as well( if you live in a large state this can be costly). So you have to be "lucky enough" to have fraud in your own state which due to sales tax is unlikely PLUS it has to be worth the trouble since you will be out of pocket for everything.  

eBay Ignores Seller Documentation Proving Fraud   eBay Ignores Seller Documentation Proving Fraud

by: rachel This user has validated their user name.

Mon Apr 24 01:19:13 2017

eBay had bad 2nd quarter results and is looking at a worse quarter. This is why they raised fees and put it all on the backs of sellers.  They are playing tough guy like Amazon but they have no real rewards program for buyers like Amazon. You do not get much at all. They had an eBay credit card before Amazon partnered with Chase but they got rid of it Meanwhille Amazon is offering more rewards. Both have more competition than ever from Shopify, Jet.com and Boxed.com. 2015 was eBay's transition year really and things were not SO BAD but 2016 things slowed down and 2017 is not so hot. Bottom feeders everywhere.  There are bright spots during holidays depending upon what your category is but there are more players and eBay is not modernizing anything. It's the same old eBay ik 20 years later except it used to be a to more fun for both buyers and sellers before they Amozonized it and made it like an online Kohls ( nothing against Kohls or Amazon).

eBay Ignores Seller Documentation Proving Fraud   eBay Ignores Seller Documentation Proving Fraud

by: rachel This user has validated their user name.

Mon Apr 24 01:22:40 2017

Have any of the gov't sites and fraud sites helped anyone?  Only thing that ever helped us is if the buyer was in our state then we could take them to small claims and most would just drop whatever scam they had planned.

eBay Ignores Seller Documentation Proving Fraud   eBay Ignores Seller Documentation Proving Fraud

by: Tiffee Jasso This user has validated their user name.

Mon Apr 24 03:22:29 2017

When you have a brick and mortar shop, you have a certain amount of theft. I get some theft of my items from Ebayers also. I file their name with the Post Office so it will be on file. If the person's name pops up too many times the Mail Fraud division will go after them. So if every one will at least fill out the paperwork and send it in or it might be that you can do that online now, a few of the fraudsters can spend a vacation in Federal Prison or pay fines. Also do mail a copy of the complaint to the person who committed the fraud so you can screw their day for them.  

eBay Ignores Seller Documentation Proving Fraud   eBay Ignores Seller Documentation Proving Fraud

by: choochoo This user has validated their user name.

Mon Apr 24 07:13:16 2017

YOU CAN'T FIX STUPID.

eBay Ignores Seller Documentation Proving Fraud   eBay Ignores Seller Documentation Proving Fraud

by: frustrated This user has validated their user name.

Mon Apr 24 07:27:56 2017

@ RKTOYS

What good is insurance??  The item was delivered right???  You can't submit an insurance claim for a delivered item. Only if it's damaged, or LOST.

Contact the postal inspector

eBay Ignores Seller Documentation Proving Fraud   eBay Ignores Seller Documentation Proving Fraud

by: frustrated This user has validated their user name.

Mon Apr 24 07:29:32 2017

Guys, we are going to have to go NO RETURNS.

They don't allow 7 days anymore, and they don't care if the person even returns the correct item, or if it's used, or missing half the parts. Or a different item altogether.

SCREW THEM, it's only 10% on the discount now

eBay Ignores Seller Documentation Proving Fraud   eBay Ignores Seller Documentation Proving Fraud

This user has validated their user name. by: Rexford

Mon Apr 24 08:36:52 2017

Frustrated, you can go to "NO RETURNS" on eBay but all you will get are lots of SNADs. If they don't win the case on eBay they will go straight to PayPal.

eBay Ignores Seller Documentation Proving Fraud   eBay Ignores Seller Documentation Proving Fraud

This user has validated their user name. by: RKTOYS

Mon Apr 24 09:01:52 2017

I started insuring orders over $100 because of customers that don't like the price and make up stories to get a partial refund.  When you tell them they can file an insurance claim for damages the problem tends to disappear.  The inspector is who I file with when they steal by lying about non-receipt.

eBay Ignores Seller Documentation Proving Fraud   eBay Ignores Seller Documentation Proving Fraud

This user has validated their user name. by: iheartjacksparrow

Mon Apr 24 11:15:53 2017

While it is true that a seller would have to file in the state where the buyer resides, the scamming buyer might not know that.

You might want to try filling out the paperwork and sending a copy to the buyer. Tell the buyer that unless they (whatever you want; return of merchandise or money) you will be filing the enclosed complaint with the court, and they will be required to travel to the seller's state for the court hearing. To really scare them, state that if they don't appear for the hearing, a default judgment will be entered against them (including punitive damages for fraud), which will ruin their credit rating. You should also state that you will garnish their bank account and put a lien on their real property, if they have any, until the judgment is paid in full.

Once the buyer realizes it's not worth ruining his/her entire life for whatever it is that they've scammed, you will get a lot more cooperation.    

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