EcommerceBytes Letters to the Editor Letters to the Editor
Your emails to EcommerceBytes
For consideration, send your email to ina@auctionbytes.com with "Letters to the Editor Blog" in the subject line! Remember to include your name as you would like it to appear in the blog.
Sun Apr 24 2016 06:11:08

Should the Seller Have Lost This eBay Claim?

By: Reader

Sponsored Link

Dear Ina,
I just wanted to tell you about a return outcome I had to let other sellers know if it was interest, I'll try to be as brief as possible.

1) Buyer opened a Not as Described Case for my measurements being .5" off (I am a returns seller)

2) I accept the return in good faith and to double check my measurements to fight the case upon receipt of the item. I am charged for a shipping label.

3) I receive the item, re-measure and confirm my original measurements. Buyer is reported then I escalate the case with the reason "I disagree with the reason for the return". I upload a photo of the measuring tape with the item in question showing my measurements.

4) 24 hours later the case is closed in buyers favor and eBay deducts original purchase price and shipping from account.

5) I am given an option to appeal. I speak with two reps who actually tell me an appeal is not possible in this case because the item had been returned to me in the same condition it was sent, final decision. The reps tell me they cannot even see the photo I uploaded showing my measurements once the case is closed and that I have no proof now.

6) American rep feels pity on me and issues me a $9 eBay Bucks certificate. She also tells me that I will now have a defect as well for escalating the case and losing. Rep acknowledges "this is an issue and they're trying to work on it".

I am told there is currently no way as a return-accepting seller to fight and win these types of cases for false Not As Described cases. All because a buyer can say something is as little as a half an inch off. 
Laura




Comments (33) | Permalink

Readers Comments

Should the Seller Have Lost This eBay Claim?   Should the Seller Have Lost This eBay Claim?

by: dander This user has validated their user name.

Sun Apr 24 06:26:48 2016

happened to me also, had a seller return an item for being too small. When I got it, it was a different brand and color. I escalated it and lost. All I got was I could complain to pay pal.  

Should the Seller Have Lost This eBay Claim?   Should the Seller Have Lost This eBay Claim?

by: FeelingFroggy This user has validated their user name.

Sun Apr 24 06:58:16 2016

How does one negotiate with bots??? Customer has a list with a one size fits all answer.

Better to just accept reality that ya all ain't going to win against stupidity.

Pay up, relist, and block the idiot and move it. Its not worth ulcers.

Should the Seller Have Lost This eBay Claim?   Should the Seller Have Lost This eBay Claim?

by: tiastreasures This user has validated their user name.
Web Site

Sun Apr 24 08:14:13 2016

If I were still selling on eBay, I would accept buyer fraud as a cost of doing business and swallow the loss.  You won't win.  That's why I'm not there any more.

Should the Seller Have Lost This eBay Claim?   Should the Seller Have Lost This eBay Claim?

by: smc429 This user has validated their user name.

Sun Apr 24 09:31:33 2016

Abominable! Someone needs to regulate ebay! I sell high volume clothing and EVERY DAY I get not as described nonsense. Let me tell you MY story from Friday. Buyer says got ''wrong item wrong size'' I call ebay ''is there any way at all I can win this'' Ebay''no.buyer has 100% protection. So I refund in full tell buyer to enjoy her free item and let her know I'm opening a theft case w/ USPS since they must have stolen the item and replaced it. Buyer THEN says oops my bad I ''opened two cases on the same item'' ..makes no sense. I ask ebay well how do I get my money back. They say that I can't get it. I ask buyer for my money and she says NO. Also so you know in March I caught 5 PEOPLE red handed stealing (sending item back to sell, manipulating tracking etc). They are ALL STILL ON EBAY.Ebay is 100% slanted toward the buyer. It is a defeating place to work and I forsee a HUGE class action case headed their way

Should the Seller Have Lost This eBay Claim?   Should the Seller Have Lost This eBay Claim?

by: RLS This user has validated their user name.

Sun Apr 24 10:18:16 2016

Something I have tries and it has worked in a few situations is to not accept the return instead I send the return instructions address etc. when I receive the item call ebay and explain to the rep that I am completing a return. They will open a case and close it simultaneously in my favor. Works sometimes as we all know when dealing with ebay it is who answers the call.

Should the Seller Have Lost This eBay Claim?   Should the Seller Have Lost This eBay Claim?

This user has validated their user name. by: Marie

Sun Apr 24 18:18:44 2016

Ebay's return process has been a hot mess for a very long time.  It definitely leans in the buyers favor the vast majority of time.

There are however some things that ALL sellers should know and if you are a seller that is not completely versed on how Ebay handles this subject, you really need to study the rules and ask questions as needed.  It is in your best interest and the in the best interest of the health of your account.

Some key things to remember.

NEVER EVER EVER escalate a claim without having Ebay on the phone with you.  And NEVER, even with Ebay on the phone with you escalate one that will be closed in the favor of a buyer.

No matter what those CSRs tell you, it will count against you if you Escalate and it is ruled in the favor of the buyer.  While it is true you don't get a defect, it does count against you in your claim stats you can see on your dashboard.

When you escalate a claim on the site [not on the phone with them], a human being does NOT review the claim.  It is a bot.  So it is not in your best interest to do it this way as you will be sadly disappointed.

You can appeal, but the problem is getting to a CSR that will actually let you appeal the claim and work with you.  It sometimes takes multiple calls and then sometimes you just never get to anyone that wants to work for their paycheck.

A sad mess for sure and many good sellers have paid high prices because of it.  While I understand how Ebay can't and won't get into a he said she said thing, but when there is clear documented proof it should be different.  They should be willing to step in as they do for INR claims.  

SNADS are the hardest to get Ebay to play fair on.

Should the Seller Have Lost This eBay Claim?   Should the Seller Have Lost This eBay Claim?

This user has validated their user name. by: Marie

Sun Apr 24 18:22:21 2016

Oh another thing.  Require an RMA number for returns.  You can do this in your Site Preferences.  This will give you about 48 hours to respond to your buyer before they can do anything or even Ebay for that matter.  

You can dream up some numbering system, but really that isn't the important part.  By requiring the RMA number it gives you some time to work with your buyer on resolving the problem.  If you resolve it BEFORE anyone [buyer or seller] escalates it, the claim will NOT count against you.  Even if you take a return and refund the buyer.  

Should the Seller Have Lost This eBay Claim?   Should the Seller Have Lost This eBay Claim?

by: pace306 This user has validated their user name.

Mon Apr 25 01:40:58 2016

The eBay golden run for stealing from sellers is:

ONCE YOU SAY THAT YOU ACCEPT RETURNS, THE ITEM(S) CAN BE RETURNED TO YOU - ON YOUR DIME - AT ANY TIME FOR ANY REASON DURING THE 30 DAY TIME LIMIT.

Thats what it is and thats why you lost (besides the escalation that Marie spoke of).

Your measurement(s) are/were irrelevant. Once you took the return - the game was over.

Theres no appeal to it, theres no recourse.

Returns on eBay are the WORST part of the company. It used to be VERO abuse, but thats subsided during the last few years. Now its onto returns fraud.

1) ebay gains by it so they wont stop it

2) ebay is DESPERATE for buyers so it bribes them with sellers funds (all sellers are mean nasty people who look to screw buyers anyway)

3) be happy you got the item back at all as eBay A) allows buyers to keep items at times B) you could have gotten a rock C) you could have gotten an empty box

Welcome to Hal Lawtons eBay!

Should the Seller Have Lost This eBay Claim?   Should the Seller Have Lost This eBay Claim?

This user has validated their user name. by: Marie

Mon Apr 25 02:55:11 2016

@ pace306

"ONCE YOU SAY THAT YOU ACCEPT RETURNS, THE ITEM(S) CAN BE RETURNED TO YOU - ON YOUR DIME - AT ANY TIME FOR ANY REASON DURING THE 30 DAY TIME LIMIT."

That is absolutely true IF you have a stated 30 day return policy.  But if you have a 14 day return policy, then it is the same as you stated EXCEPT that it is only for 14 days instead of 30.

The idiotic UNWRITTEN policy of Ebay is for the length of your stated return policy.  This is not the way some of the policy pages read on the subject.  Ebay has contradicting written policies on the subject.  I've brought this to their attention many times but of course they don't care.

If a buyer files a claim AFTER your stated return policy has passed, then they fall under the rules of the Money Back Guarantee and that policy DOES have exception.

There ARE appeals on Ebay.  The problem is that many CSRs will tell you that you can't open one, like they did to the OP.  This is incorrect, but if you can't get to an CSR that knows and understand the rules, you are sunk.

Should the Seller Have Lost This eBay Claim?   Should the Seller Have Lost This eBay Claim?

by: pace306 This user has validated their user name.

Mon Apr 25 09:42:28 2016

Marie :)

I can only tell you whats happened to me (with American CS agents).

I had 14 days on everything (except 1 or 2 items) because I wanted to offer my buyers piece of mind and "go along to get along".

Each and every time the 14 always ended up being 30. It started with "its not 14 days from purchase, its not 14 from mailing its 14 days from receipt." Ok - I can understand it - I wasnt fond of it but ok.

Then it became - "file something/anything in 14 days, then take up to another 14 to send it back". Not in the rules but ... ok gine "you got me".

Then cs would advise (happened to me 2x) the buyer to open a MBG for things a seller would have no control over (compatibility) (I didnt promise compatibility when there was none - we only listed the items the manufacturer said it WOULD work with), which of course made 30+

That line that I quote, happens to me and everyone I know who sells on eBay. The guy I know in the baby business refuses to sell carriages on eBay because of it. A few 50 pound strollers comming back under fake SNAD gets expensive QUICKLY.

Really, its any excuse to push stuff back on sellers - people who eBay deem are able to  - deserve to "eat" items when a buyer isnt happy.

Should the Seller Have Lost This eBay Claim?   Should the Seller Have Lost This eBay Claim?

by: Rosered This user has validated their user name.

Mon Apr 25 09:55:41 2016

Hi, have ant of you seen the article that the guardian published today concerning scammers on ebay?

Should the Seller Have Lost This eBay Claim?   Should the Seller Have Lost This eBay Claim?

This user has validated their user name. by: Marie

Mon Apr 25 12:30:45 2016

@ pace

Every seller on Ebay whether they offer a return period or a no return policy have a minimum of a 30 day return policy.  And that is because of the Ebay Money Back Guarantee.

What confuses many is how Ebay actually applies this.  Let's say you have a 14 day return policy.  So if after your buyer receives the item they discover a problem.  They notify you on day 1 to 14, then it falls under your stated return policy.  But if the buyer notifies you on day 15 to 30, then it falls under the Ebay Money Back Guarantee.  And that policy has exception.

For those sellers offering a 30 or more day return policy, the MBG never kicks in as it is only good for 30 days.

If you have a buyer that takes more than 5 days to ship something back to you, then you should call Ebay and have them close the claim.  You do not have to wait an extended amount of time for them to ship the item.  

http://pages.ebay.com/help/buy/return-item.html#resolvin
g

What
should I do if I missed the seller's return time frame?
If you've missed the deadline to start a return, you can contact the seller to see if the seller is willing to accept a late return. Use Messages in My eBay when contacting the seller to keep a record of your conversation.

Should the Seller Have Lost This eBay Claim?   Should the Seller Have Lost This eBay Claim?

This user has validated their user name. by: Marie

Mon Apr 25 12:32:20 2016

Whoops, I posted the wrong Ebay policy portion above.  I meant to post this one.

What happens if I started a return request but didn't ship the item in time?
We ask that you ship back the item to the seller within 5 business days. If 6 business days have passed since you started a return for a refund, and you haven't sent the item yet, contact the seller to see if they're still willing to accept your return. Use Messages in My eBay when contacting the seller to keep a record of your conversation.

Should the Seller Have Lost This eBay Claim?   Should the Seller Have Lost This eBay Claim?

This user has validated their user name. by: iheartjacksparrow

Mon Apr 25 14:59:14 2016

Here is a link to The Guardian article mentioned above:

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2016/apr/25/ebay-seller
-beware-buyer-guarantee-exploited-scammers

Should the Seller Have Lost This eBay Claim?   Should the Seller Have Lost This eBay Claim?

by: pace306 This user has validated their user name.

Mon Apr 25 15:39:25 2016

Marie :)

Yes you are %100 - you are assuming that eBay actually follows its own rules - which it doesnt.

Ive had buyers IN THEIR EBAY EMAIL lie - and eBay just says "its not applicable".

NEVER ONCE did my 14 policy apply (conditions, restocking fee - whatever) - THAT is precisely what the issue is (for me).

You would be 101% correct instead of %100 ... if they would only follow their own rules.

I believe (and I may be wrong) or at least eBay SWEARS "it doesnt matter once you say you take returns" (they've said so to me 100x - that the "item condition page" in the returns section doesnt mean ANYTHING.

If it did - Id have zero issues. It says the item must come back COMPLETE (tags, books, boxes, extra parts) and that never happens. It also says the item YOU SENT must come back - not another or the same one with a different SN#.

Why have that page if eBay will lie about it and not stand by it?

Should the Seller Have Lost This eBay Claim?   Should the Seller Have Lost This eBay Claim?

by: val2525 This user has validated their user name.

Mon Apr 25 16:53:55 2016

Go to a no returns policy.  You can argue false SNADs and even win a few if you're no returns.  Screw eBay and their return everything attitude.

Should the Seller Have Lost This eBay Claim?   Should the Seller Have Lost This eBay Claim?

This user has validated their user name. by: bitbybit

Mon Apr 25 17:31:37 2016

Once I had a buyer refuse to give a reason for a not as described return. This one got ugly with me digging up the background on this buyer, ebay doing some underhanded tactics and eventually ebay sweeping this under the rug. I don't think they were counting on me being so relentless and finding out as much as I did. Firmly believe this buyer and ebay were working together.

As to the OP losing this claim, it really is pointless to pursue unless you are willing to give up hours of your time for a questionable outcome. Choose your battles wisely.  

Should the Seller Have Lost This eBay Claim?   Should the Seller Have Lost This eBay Claim?

This user has validated their user name. by: Marie

Mon Apr 25 17:33:19 2016

Ebay will not involved themselves in a he said she said situation.  So if your buyer is lying in an email to you, you'd have to prove that with one of their own emails, not something that you have that disputes what they said.  But if the buyer contradicts themselves, that can be extremely helpful.

I have disputed claims before and won.  But it is definitely hard and the evidence has to be clear.  Crystal clear.  No room for interpretation.  

It is most certainly a messed up system they have with a mixture of experiences by sellers.  There is very little consistency by Ebay.  That can be completely contributed to the lack of accurate training given to their CSRs.

Should the Seller Have Lost This eBay Claim?   Should the Seller Have Lost This eBay Claim?

This user has validated their user name. by: bitbybit

Mon Apr 25 17:56:42 2016

Not sure if this can still be done but if a buyer sent me a direct email, I would copy and paste the buyer's email in ebay messages and respond to them that way. A little form of protection for the seller and possible way to spot a scamming buyer. Probably won't really help since things have become so one-sided.

By the way ebay uses this 'he said-she said' only when it benefits ebay. It is used against sellers in feedback where the buyer's opinion counts. Ebay loves to play the semantics game.

Should the Seller Have Lost This eBay Claim?   Should the Seller Have Lost This eBay Claim?

This user has validated their user name. by: Marie

Mon Apr 25 18:10:04 2016

@bit

Yes you can still do that.  I've done it many times over the years so that it is recorded in M2M.  However, it works the best if you get you buyer to somehow acknowledge the email or what they said in the email in M2M.  Simply to C&P it sometimes just isn't enough.

Click to view more comments
1 2  [Next Page]


Login is required to post comments.
To sign in to leave a comment using your AB Verify User Name, fill in the form below. If you have not yet signed up for AB Verify, or if you'd like more information, go to the Registration Page
.

Login for AB Verify
Be sure and use your email address and password to log in.

 
Email:
Password:
 
 Forgot Your Password?
 Even though you are signed in with the AuctionBytes Blog, you will have to sign in to the EcommerceBytes blog. But you can sign in with your existing AB Verify info.