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Mon Mar 21 2016 17:09:41

eBay Sellers Lose Money When Buyers Cancel Orders

By: Reader

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Dear Ina,
Has anyone else noticed that when you cancel an eBay sale (that has already been paid for) that PayPal keeps the 30 cent transaction fee??

My complaint is not with PayPal, they are due their fee. My complaint is with eBay.

This has happened to me twice within a month. Once, an eight year old (okay sure, whatever) purchased an item without parent approval. The second time the buyer wanted to cancel the sale because they didn't like the condition of the item which was clearly "over" stated in the listing (they decided two days later to actually read the ad). 

Neither of the items had been shipped.

Basically in these types of deals, as sellers, our hands are tied and it is best just to cancel the deal and refund the money. However, eBay does not give us an option to do a refund less any fees that we have incurred. When you agree to cancel a deal, it's an all or nothing refund. 

eBay needs to give sellers the option to do a refund less any charges that they incur WITHOUT a penalty to the seller. Each refund situation is quite different but when a sale is cancelled thru no fault of the seller, we should not incur any monetary loss ... be it eBay or PayPal.

I am ready to file a class action suit against eBay.

Am I the only one that has noticed this and is annoyed with eBay's practices regarding it???
Janet




Comments (19) | Permalink

Readers Comments

eBay Sellers Lose Money When Buyers Cancel Orders   eBay Sellers Lose Money When Buyers Cancel Orders

This user has validated their user name. by: Rexford

Tue Mar 22 07:30:14 2016

It's the eBay and PayPal way. They think that this is an honest way to do business.

eBay Sellers Lose Money When Buyers Cancel Orders   eBay Sellers Lose Money When Buyers Cancel Orders

by: RCL This user has validated their user name.

Tue Mar 22 10:36:41 2016

I don't lose any money on cancellations at the buyer's request. I refund the full payment and pay no fee. Not Pay Pal, not eBay. Maybe it has to do with your particular account?

eBay Sellers Lose Money When Buyers Cancel Orders   eBay Sellers Lose Money When Buyers Cancel Orders

by: pace306 This user has validated their user name.

Tue Mar 22 23:45:48 2016

:) Janet - have at em .... just remember this please ...

1) You agree to eBays bad behavior in the TOS/UA. While "shrinkwrap licenses" can be fought in court, unless they are egregious or found to be out of bounds, courts most times uphold them. AKA you agree to the "service charge" of 30 cents or what ever eBay decides.

2) Class Action suits generally dont work and even when they do - the lawyers take %90, since they generally work on contingent.

3) eBay will do a "change of venue" on you the moment you file anything anywhere, telling the judge that they are a large corporation and its hard for them to get to (insert the name of your town here) since theres VOLUMES of paper for discovery on a case like this. And, since you are (1) person and your paperwork/casework is less ... the judge will %99 agree to a change of venue to San Jose.

In lovely San Jose, you and your attorney will have to find a place to stay and stay there for days/weeks/months as each time you go to court, eBay pushes for a continuance.

After that time - when you finally do get to court, eBay will trot out point #1 and say "see she agreed to it" and then move for dismissal plus lawyers fees.

In all of that - you will end up loosing WAY more then you could possibly ever win. You may feel better, but it wont help you or anyone else here or on eBay.

eBay purposely designed the TOS/UA to be as bulletproof as possible, and the change of venue is the standard trick all large companies use - trying to discourage you from going ahead.

Even if you get into court in San Jose AND you can "prove your case stating the extra service charge is egregious", chances are that judge or his cousin/nephew/daughter etc knows someone that works at eBay and therefore - you wont win ... it will be an uphill battle.

As well judges need to be reelected and that takes money. Guess who makes LARGE political contributions in and around CA? (one guess it starts with an E and its NOT etsy).

The 30 cents is there because even though the sale was cancelled, it "cost eBay/Paypal something. All costs on eBay/Paypal are covered by sellers.

To quote Orson Wells "yes, always".

eBay Sellers Lose Money When Buyers Cancel Orders   eBay Sellers Lose Money When Buyers Cancel Orders

by: whipnet This user has validated their user name.

Wed Mar 23 00:17:52 2016

Cancellations have been very rare for me, but every time I have had one, I've called Paypal and they've refunded it immediately without question.

*

eBay Sellers Lose Money When Buyers Cancel Orders   eBay Sellers Lose Money When Buyers Cancel Orders

by: Moonwishes This user has validated their user name.
Web Site

Wed Mar 23 00:31:40 2016

PP 30 cent fee has been around for a long time. Especially on the classic site, it was hard to see that it was taken out since they took up so many different lines to show the payment then the refund, etc., but it is. My worst thing when selling on ebay was the deadbeat buyer and hoops to jump through to get your FVF backs.

My question, especially with your buyer that wanted the sale cancelled 2 days later that they had already paid for, was why hadn't it been shipped already? Once something is paid for, get it out the door and then tell the buyer that wants to cancel two days or more after paying, so sorry it is on the way and what they have to do to get a refund. At that point as part of the refund, assuming they want that hassle, I would add in the 30 cent fee, and all other fees that I had to pay so that when all is over and done with, I'm not out any money. But then I don't sell on ebay anymore so they don't come in and refund the buyer without my say so.

eBay Sellers Lose Money When Buyers Cancel Orders   eBay Sellers Lose Money When Buyers Cancel Orders

by: The Not So New Guy This user has validated their user name.

Wed Mar 23 00:34:35 2016

I totally agree that this ''cancel an order'' situation is just more eBay BS. What happened to the days of ''buying an item is a contract''? Nowadays it seems only the seller is contractually obligated by eBay but these ridiculous buyers can do as they please.

They buy an item and 10 minutes later they want to cancel it.... after making an immediate payment? Nonsense.

So, option #1; Change your tos to 20% restocking fees, and just ignore the request to cancel, and ship the item (if you dare do as any business would). Then if they want to return it charge them the restocking fee. Send an email after it ships stating something to the effect of ''As it's our goal to ship asap we apologize but we didn't see your request till after it shipped, sorry''

Option#2; Cancel the sale, call Pay Pal and they'll give you back the 30 cents.

I must say I don't much care about the cancellations and 30 cents but what bothers me is the ridiculous amount of time some of these idiots will make you waste over their cancellations, with stupid questions, stupid answers, etc. That bothers me far more than the 30 cents.

It should be noted this is also not something to add to ''bad behavior'' of eBay or Pay Pal, this is standard business practice of every credit card processor on the planet. You take a payment you pay the initiation fee, you make a refund it's the same thing, you pay the initiation fee. And if you think you can call the CC processor and they'll just give you back the money as Pay Pal will you are mistaken. They charge their processing fees and that's that.

This new ''cancel an order'' thing does burn my behind though and I think it's total BS, we went to Immediate Payment Required to be done with these morons and now they're back with ''cancellations''. I for one will just normally ignore it and ship the order. But that's just me ymmv.

eBay Sellers Lose Money When Buyers Cancel Orders   eBay Sellers Lose Money When Buyers Cancel Orders

by: Lightning This user has validated their user name.

Wed Mar 23 00:58:35 2016

I give a refund for a cancelled order about once a month.  They ask to cancel, I click on the link, the buyer confirms, the sale is gone.  My ebay fees are returned, money is refunded (30 cent fee not reimbursed - ooh). It's probably the easiest thing I do regarding sales on ebay.  Someone is complaining about a 30 cent fee now and then?  If your time is worth worrying about a 30 cent fee, you're doing it wrong.

eBay Sellers Lose Money When Buyers Cancel Orders   eBay Sellers Lose Money When Buyers Cancel Orders

by: minnie This user has validated their user name.

Wed Mar 23 02:03:04 2016

I've known about the .30 transaction fee not being credited when a refund is made.  No big deal.  Thankfully, I don't get too many cancellations, but they are one of the easiest things to do and my FVF is credited immediately.  I understand the buyers paying and then asking to cancel because they don't want an unpaid strike on their account.  Maybe they need to be better informed to NOT pay and then ask to cancel because it costs seller time and money to do so.

eBay Sellers Lose Money When Buyers Cancel Orders   eBay Sellers Lose Money When Buyers Cancel Orders

by: Chicago48 This user has validated their user name.

Wed Mar 23 04:25:20 2016

Always use the free listings, where there is no 30c fee.  That way if they cancel, you're not charged the 30c fee.

eBay Sellers Lose Money When Buyers Cancel Orders   eBay Sellers Lose Money When Buyers Cancel Orders

This user has validated their user name. by: Ric

Wed Mar 23 09:08:29 2016

@pace306 correctly observes: "
The 30 cents is there because even though the sale was cancelled, it "cost eBay/Paypal something."

PayPal's computers processes payments in milliseconds.

PayPal's computers processes refunds in milliseconds.

PayPal charges .30 for processing a payment which they keep regardless of the reason a refund is issued.

$.30 for milliseconds of computer time... this should take some of the mystery out of why the company is so profitable.

eBay Sellers Lose Money When Buyers Cancel Orders   eBay Sellers Lose Money When Buyers Cancel Orders

This user has validated their user name. by: toolguy

Wed Mar 23 11:07:00 2016

@pace306

"2) Class Action suits generally dont work and even when they do - the lawyers take %90, since they generally work on contingent."

You're a wealth of MIS-information!

The standard fee for a class action is 25%. sometimes the court will allow a higher percentage but that's the exception not the rule.

eBay Sellers Lose Money When Buyers Cancel Orders   eBay Sellers Lose Money When Buyers Cancel Orders

This user has validated their user name. by: FEEbay

Wed Mar 23 11:50:23 2016

Folks- I agree that it is not right, but it is THIRTY CENTS!
Just chalk it up to the cost of doing business with Ebay/Paypal....
pace306 is absolutely correct, you have a 0.01% chance of winning against this in court, and would have to be a multimillionaire with all sorts of time on your hands to even attempt a class action here.. Like everything else, just swallow your price and move on!

eBay Sellers Lose Money When Buyers Cancel Orders   eBay Sellers Lose Money When Buyers Cancel Orders

This user has validated their user name. by: Marie

Wed Mar 23 13:00:04 2016

A class action law suit for what?  PP is a for profit company.  They provided a service to both the seller and the buyer.  They aren't doing anything illegal.  And as others have said, this fee has been around for years.  Before they started it, I was always amazed that there wasn't a fee as PP did provide a service and therefor deserves to be paid just as anyone else does.

@RCL

Everyone gets charged the fee when you fully refund a buyer.  On partial refunds it doesn't apply as PP refunds the seller just the proper percentage on the refunded amount, but keep the 30 cent transaction fee no matter how much you refund.

Now if you aren't using PP, then of course it doesn't apply.

eBay Sellers Lose Money When Buyers Cancel Orders   eBay Sellers Lose Money When Buyers Cancel Orders

by: The Not So New Guy This user has validated their user name.

Wed Mar 23 14:12:21 2016

Let's get one detail here straight if nothing else. Class action suits are perfectly profitable, and they cost nothing to anyone except the firm that decides to take the case. And believe me any firm willing to sue eBay knows the risk vs rewards ratio and is only going to take a case they believe is profitable. Much bigger than eBay have fallen over a good class action suit, so don't think for a second it's impossible, or unprofitable or anything else.

And yes eBay is the one that should be sued not Pay Pal. Pay Pal is doing nothing at all wrong. eBay is misleading sellers into believing when you click cancel "all your fees will be refunded" and that is a lie. If they want to add cancellations then they should refund the 30 cents to sellers, I never wanted this cancellation policy and do not agree with it beyond being forced to. But if "it's only 30 cents" then why isn't eBay paying it? So yes there could very well be a case here. Unlikely but possible.

And just on a side note for everyone saying "oh it's only 30 cents" I'd like to see some math on how many millions of dollars a year has been collected by this 30 cents since eBay decided to allow cancellations. I just wonder how much it really totals at the end of every month.... Think about it.

eBay Sellers Lose Money When Buyers Cancel Orders   eBay Sellers Lose Money When Buyers Cancel Orders

by: Tiffee Jasso This user has validated their user name.

Wed Mar 23 15:28:05 2016

I would rather a cancellation then some stupid excuse to return after delivery.I might be out 30 cents, but not $20 in shipping. Wishy Washy folks ought to go to the mall and then use their own gas to make the returns instead of costing Ebay sellers millions of dollars per year in losses on postage alone.  

eBay Sellers Lose Money When Buyers Cancel Orders   eBay Sellers Lose Money When Buyers Cancel Orders

by: Bethofvt This user has validated their user name.

Wed Mar 23 16:56:31 2016

Your money might be refunded for FVF on the item price, but Ebay keeps the FVF on the shipping fees, even if you refund and never ship.  Cost me over $3.00 on an item I refunded that had $32 shipping. Why worry about 30 cents frm Paypal?

eBay Sellers Lose Money When Buyers Cancel Orders   eBay Sellers Lose Money When Buyers Cancel Orders

This user has validated their user name. by: Bill

Wed Mar 23 23:59:44 2016

And another reason why buyers and sellers are leaving eBay by the droves.

eBay Sellers Lose Money When Buyers Cancel Orders   eBay Sellers Lose Money When Buyers Cancel Orders

This user has validated their user name. by: Marie

Thu Mar 24 02:56:29 2016

@the not so new guy

"...eBay is misleading sellers into believing when you click cancel "all your fees will be refunded" and that is a lie."

That is simply incorrect.  Too many people ASSUME things and don't read what is on the screen before them.  Ebay has ALWAYS stated ON SCREEN that sellers are being refunded their FVF [final value fees].  They don't even mention PP fees.  And they also state in the policy that they don't refund listing fees, only the FVF.  All one has to do is read the screen when they are cancelling something to know what Ebay is doing.  You may not like it, but that doesn't change the fact that they state FVF ONLY.

Being able to cancel a transaction has been around for a very long time.  The only thing that has changed in recent memory is that a buyer can formally request a cancellation within an hour of purchase.  It is still only a request and a seller has the right to decide whether to honor it or not.  

Cancellations are just part of doing business on Ebay. I can only speak for myself, but I don't even average 1 cancellation a month.  Sometimes I may get a couple close together, but then I don't get another for quite a while.  For me, cancellations and/or cancellation fees are really low on my list of concerns with Ebay.

@bethofvt

You should contact Ebay as something is not happening correctly for you.  On a cancellation ALL your FVF should be refunded and that includes the FVF on Shipping.  The only time that Ebay doesn't refund FVF on shipping is when a seller does partial refunds.  To get that credit, you'd have to call if it is worth it to you.

eBay Sellers Lose Money When Buyers Cancel Orders   eBay Sellers Lose Money When Buyers Cancel Orders

by: Lightning This user has validated their user name.

Mon Mar 28 21:48:25 2016

It's a shock to me that Paypal refunds ANY of your fee.  If you went to a bank and sent a wire transfer to purchase something, it would cost you $30-$50.  Then if you didn't use the transfer as you intended, and wanted it transferred back, do you think the bank would give you your original $30-$50 back and keep 30 cents? NO! They are going to charge you another $30-$50 for a second transfer!  They did the transfer twice, and want to be paid twice.  Paypal sent you your money, and now is sending it back.  The net is that they aren't getting paid AT ALL, except for the 60 cents total for both ways.  And if a credit card was involved, that goes to the credit card company.  It's probably the best deal in banking on the planet, and there's a complaint about it.  Sometimes we just don't get it.



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