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Mon Feb 1 2016 14:15:05

PayPal Refunds eBay Purchases for up to 6 Months

By: Reader

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Dear Ina,
We sellers on eBay have a huge problem with PayPal and we do not know what to do about it. PayPal will refund eBay buyers the full purchase price of items for up to six months. 

I sell expensive bracelets and this allows a buyer to wear the item for up to six months. They ruin it and then can get their money back in full by PayPal. 

If you open a case against the buyers for ruining the item, PayPal requires that you get an affidavit and notarized to prove your case. PayPal never sides with the Sellers in this case. It remains a refund to the buyer no matter what we do.

We need an alternative company that will handle our business without giving our money away to dishonest and scam buyers on eBay.

We have talked extensively with eBay about an alternative way to process our sales, but they only support PayPal.

We have talked extensively with PayPal and they say that they are just doing what the credit cards do and allow chargebacks for six months. We need a solution.

Perhaps you and your readers can offer a solution for this problem. We offer a return on eBay, but for two weeks and not six months. PayPal does NOT follow our return policy. Surely there is some way for sellers to remain solvent without the huge laundering of monies by chargebacks by scammers and lying cheating eBay buyers.

We need a solution.
Thanks,
S.




Comments (22) | Permalink

Readers Comments

PayPal Refunds eBay Purchases for up to 6 Months   PayPal Refunds eBay Purchases for up to 6 Months

by: FeelingFroggy This user has validated their user name.

Mon Feb 1 15:11:17 2016

Take note that in about 4 years and 5 months you can tell PreyPig to drop dead. Until then you will pay the pig.

PayPal Refunds eBay Purchases for up to 6 Months   PayPal Refunds eBay Purchases for up to 6 Months

This user has validated their user name. by: Rexford

Mon Feb 1 15:24:44 2016

ebay and PayPal = thick as thieves.

Separated only on paper. I've already been a casualty of the PayPal "buyer is always right policy" and it literally allowed a buyer to steal from me.

Can you say overstep?

PayPal Refunds eBay Purchases for up to 6 Months   PayPal Refunds eBay Purchases for up to 6 Months

This user has validated their user name. by: bitbybit

Mon Feb 1 15:28:05 2016

Setting Paypal aside for a moment. When a buyer files a chargeback directly with the credit card company, they do have to prove the issue for a refund. The seller does get a chance to respond and it is not always in the buyer's favor.

Now the problem with Paypal and CC chargebacks is they are ONLY looking out for Paypal. The seller is given little details about the case since Paypal plays the privacy card (the same as eBay plays the ''just a venue'' ruse) to their own benefit. Paypal again is only looking out for Paypal with the notarized affidavit request. Both Paypal and eBay purposely wear out sellers using this dancing around routine so the enslaved sellers will just give up and follow back in line.

I am not sure if all the CC companies use the 6 month refund rule or if Paypal has this 6 month refund to attract more customers into using Paypal.

Sorry OP, I feel the same way. The only thing I can say is to branch out into other marketplaces and/or create your own selling site.

PayPal Refunds eBay Purchases for up to 6 Months   PayPal Refunds eBay Purchases for up to 6 Months

This user has validated their user name. by: Philip Cohen
Web Site

Mon Feb 1 20:03:06 2016

@FeelingFroggy,

You are assuming that the current eBay–PayPal exclusivity agreement will not be renewed; methinks that would be a very naïve assumption to make, being as these two unscrupulous commercial entities are effectively still joined at the hip, and more than by common directors and major shareholders ...

@bitbybit,

As you infer, with "PreyPal", the problem is not the merits of the matter but that, unlike a merchant's real bank, "PreyPal" simply will not resist a chargeback on behalf of their merchant as too much expensive human resources are required (for "PreyPal"); indeed, "PreyPal" (and eBay) are only every looking after themselves; this potential charge-back problem is a constant risk of using "PreyPal"; this is why, unlike the retail banks/MasterCard/Visa, neither eBay or "PreyPal" have any long-term future ...

PayPal Refunds eBay Purchases for up to 6 Months   PayPal Refunds eBay Purchases for up to 6 Months

This user has validated their user name. by: iheartjacksparrow

Mon Feb 1 22:56:48 2016

@S. (OP) - I think the solution is very clear: Start your own web site and acquire a merchant account to process your sales (or use Stripe or another credit card processor not named PayPal). As long as you sell on eBay and are forced into accepting PayPal, nothing is going to chance for you.  

PayPal Refunds eBay Purchases for up to 6 Months   PayPal Refunds eBay Purchases for up to 6 Months

by: Chicago48 This user has validated their user name.

Tue Feb 2 01:52:52 2016

I agree with Jacksparrow.  Or you can move your merchandise to Bonanza or Ecrater.  If you have very good merchandise and loyal customers, they will find your shop and continue DB with you.

PayPal Refunds eBay Purchases for up to 6 Months   PayPal Refunds eBay Purchases for up to 6 Months

This user has validated their user name. by: SirTinLee

Tue Feb 2 04:06:53 2016

When you play with snakes, you get bit.

PayPal Refunds eBay Purchases for up to 6 Months   PayPal Refunds eBay Purchases for up to 6 Months

by: quirkyantiques This user has validated their user name.

Tue Feb 2 11:25:55 2016

Actually I just spoke to capital One this week and their charge back time frame is 120 days NOT 180 like Preypal.

PayPal Refunds eBay Purchases for up to 6 Months   PayPal Refunds eBay Purchases for up to 6 Months

by: moto-science This user has validated their user name.

Tue Feb 2 12:02:05 2016

I haven't got a problem with a 6 month return as long as it is in new and re-sellable condition.  If that is not the case, then it's another pushing contest. Make sure your terms indicate "new and re-sellable" condition.

PayPal Refunds eBay Purchases for up to 6 Months   PayPal Refunds eBay Purchases for up to 6 Months

This user has validated their user name. by: LasVagueness

Tue Feb 2 14:50:01 2016

When this last happened to me (fortunately, it is a very rare event) I filed a complaint with the BBB in San Jose, CA. After a bit of sleuthing, I discovered my customer was purchasing expensive items to wear to special events and then returning them−in my case reeking of cologne. I know this because I contacted all of his sellers and relayed the info to PP. PayPal held firm on the return (customer states ''not as described...there is nothing we can do''), however, corporate issued a generous refund to cover cleaning and inconvenience. Thank you, BBB.

I have decided I need to strike a comfortable balance between price and risk KNOWING PayPal has the buyer's back. 2-8K handbags now make me queasy.  

PayPal Refunds eBay Purchases for up to 6 Months   PayPal Refunds eBay Purchases for up to 6 Months

by: comet This user has validated their user name.

Wed Feb 3 02:21:58 2016

AS long as it does not cost PreyPal anything they will bend over for you---but the instant it looks like it might cost PP anything such as money or time--fugeddaboutit.  

I have gotten things back ruined and ebay/PP will do nothing--it is their position that any loss is yours to deal with and is the "Cost of doing business"  and suck it up buttercup.

I hope that some day these two are exposed for the evil twins that they are.  

PayPal Refunds eBay Purchases for up to 6 Months   PayPal Refunds eBay Purchases for up to 6 Months

by: pace306 This user has validated their user name.

Wed Feb 3 11:51:06 2016

Comet - you are %100 correct :)

eBay/Paypals philosophy is that EVERYTHING is always the sellers fault.

All profits (even FVF from shipping - something they have nothing to do with) are theirs to take a piece of, but any loss is YOUR fault.

Its always a 1 way trick with them - its like dealing with the mafia. They get a piece of your action, and when it goes bad - they arent your partner and it all goes to pot.

At least Amazon is upfront about it all, eBay just lies about it.

If eBay wants to be our unasked for business partner - then THEY need to take some of the risk too, but they dont. Its take but never give.

Its the same with any Seller Update. Even when it says "new lower fees" its STILL an increase. New Returns issues are the same .. do as you please - but if you do we will punnish you with ranking loss and discount loss.

eBay wants to protect THEMSELVES against loss and fraud, but what happens to YOU is one of their concern.

It took me quite some time to learn all this. I used to be stupid and TOOLish (foolish?), and thought that eBay was my friend. After all, after being here since 1998 with a %100 positive seller feedback rating, UPCs on all my listings (they always had them) and my selling only new unopened goods at great prices - *I* would be the "pride and joy" of the company. I thought "Id be the next eBay millionaire" .... simply because "I did everything right", played by the rules and produced sales and happy customers.

All that was great until eBay screwed me, first once in a blue moon, and then more frequently.

Whether it was VERO abuse, listing abuse, returns abuse or anything else ... when I called into eBay - their minds were already made up. They were DETERMINED that Id take that loss (what ever it was) and that was "it". Even when I pointed out to eBay, their own rules which said THE OPPOSITE, they didnt care.

So, for the last few yrs, Ive come to the understanding that they are NOT my friends or business partners in any way shape or form. They WONT look out for me, they WONT protect me, and with snide remarks like "its ok for YOU to take the loss - NOT US - its part of business" its inexcusable.

When JD or DW mouth off about "reconnecting with sellers", I just laugh and laugh. Really DW? I just "reconnected" with Amazon, and am setting up Seller Cloud to do Jet and Walmart.

No, eBay doesnt need me (apparently) and my $300-400k a yr in business .. and thats fine. Im sure I can find others that do!

PayPal Refunds eBay Purchases for up to 6 Months   PayPal Refunds eBay Purchases for up to 6 Months

by: comet This user has validated their user name.

Wed Feb 3 12:49:24 2016

@PACE360----I used to be "TOOLISH"   on ebay also.  I was never high volume --which was fine--but everything I offered sold on the first one or two listings.  Now I am lucky if the same sorts of things sell after months.  IF I DO manage to get more than one sale per account it is in a small window and in the same part of the country--but NO they are NOT limiting and blacking out  my sales.  When items selling for far MORE than my items--in sometimes worse shape!!!---sell but mine sit---you have got to wonder.

Something else we are now blamed for is the stunning lack of Feedback left by OUR customers---for some reason this has fallen by the wayside but ebay continues to rank us by the amount we rack up!  Surely a system tweak to put in a POS FB if no other FB is left after say---6 weeks---would be easy enough to implement--if ebay had proper programmers that is!  

I am not sure at this point which are worse tho--ebay itself or the buyers they have taught to be selfish and cheats and liars.  They want everything for nothing---witness a "Best Offer"  of $30  for a %245 handbag that I had listed for $79----and some have even made comments to the effect that I had BETTER take their offer or I was not going to GET another one!  While that has not proven to be 100% true items have sat for months that should have sold right off.

When I have had a problem I certainly get the impression that the CSR's are ignorant and have their hands tied should they WANT to do the right thing. Most do not have enough English skills to cope with the questions and as you said referring them to ebays OWN RULES is often useless as they have NO idea what they SAY.  

Ebay is not my friend;  it is not my partner and it is more like an abusive boyfriend than anything else.  

PayPal Refunds eBay Purchases for up to 6 Months   PayPal Refunds eBay Purchases for up to 6 Months

This user has validated their user name. by: iheartjacksparrow

Wed Feb 3 17:37:40 2016

@pace and @comet - In the early to mid 2000s I guarantee you that I was as much, if not more, TOOLish than the two of you. Every sentence out of my mouth started with the word "eBay." I sang their praises day and night. Even people I didn't know would hear about the wonders of eBay. Fast forward ten years and now I wouldn't even tell my worst enemy to sell there.

PayPal Refunds eBay Purchases for up to 6 Months   PayPal Refunds eBay Purchases for up to 6 Months

This user has validated their user name. by: Philip Cohen
Web Site

Wed Feb 3 17:49:39 2016

All present company excepted of course, but the simple fact is, eBay actively encourages the worst in behaviour by both buyers and sellers.

Many eBay sellers likely could not get a credit card merchant account with a real bank even if they tried, and so "PreyPal" fills the gap for such small sellers (by monopoly on eBay), but in servicing this sector there comes greater risk for the clunky middleman, "PreyPal".

The real banks will not countenance persistent disruptive behaviour by their users, and so in an attempt to protect itself and its credit card merchant account with its own retail banker,  from the ever increasing number of shysters operating on eBay, likewise "PreyPal" has had to take additional precautions, and that may include lengthy holds on users' funds.

Ultimately, the real problem is that "PreyPal" is a clunky middleman; it is not a licensed bank, it does not "know" its users as well as banks want, and are statutorily required, to know their customers; "PreyPal" is only a licenced "money transmitter" (like Western Union); they have no statutory right to apply lengthy holds to any "transmitted" funds, even though you may have been forced to "agree" to their terms regarding such holds; indeed, under the terms of their licence they are generally required to transmit those funds within relatively short time frames; I would even question PayPal's claimed right to refund an eBay purchase up to six months later; does Western Union claim such right? ...

Of course the difference between "PreyPal" and the retail banks is the retail banks offer a professional transaction dispute moderation service for credit card users and merchants, whereas "PreyPal" will not invest the human resources required to defend a credit card chargeback and the result is a grossly unfair bias in favour of buyers ...

"PreyPal" is not a licensed "financial institution"; it is only a licensed "money transmitter" that makes up it own rules on the fly, ignoring its statutory requirements as it pleases. And, regrettably, just like there will probably always be a place for pay-day lenders, there will always be a place for the likes of "PreyPal"; but, you use them as your constant peril ...

Regardless, if you are happy to continue selling on eBay then you are stuck with the possibility of such arbitrary holds on your incoming funds; if you are a big enough enterprise to eventually leave eBay behind, best you do the same with "PreyPal";  get yourself a MasterPass/Visa Checkout merchant account with a real bank: they, unlike "PreyPal", won't hold your funds on the slightest pretext, and they offer professional dispute moderation, if ever you need it; however, if you have too many disputes, you may well put a real merchant account at risk. Oh, well then, there's always Bitcoin—LOL ...

In the meantime, as others have said, you can certainly be assured that neither eBay nor "PreyPal" are your friends ...

PayPal Refunds eBay Purchases for up to 6 Months   PayPal Refunds eBay Purchases for up to 6 Months

This user has validated their user name. by: toolguy

Thu Feb 4 00:42:05 2016

I haven't had to make a refund in a long time. How many days is the longest you have had to make a refund. Paypal says 180 days, has anyone here had to refund after 60 days? 120 days? 179 days?

PayPal Refunds eBay Purchases for up to 6 Months   PayPal Refunds eBay Purchases for up to 6 Months

by: Steevo This user has validated their user name.

Thu Feb 4 00:50:46 2016

Why take paypal at all? Get a merchant account. Then you will be in the drivers seat.  

PayPal Refunds eBay Purchases for up to 6 Months   PayPal Refunds eBay Purchases for up to 6 Months

by: pace306 This user has validated their user name.

Thu Feb 4 11:58:09 2016

I just fought a 5 month chargeback (unauthorized charge) and WON.

Lord - Im making a party!

I called and "informed them" that I was in the right, was "Seller Protected" and that it shipped to the correct address in 2 days.

I spoke to a gentleman there and he got it done (reversed the money hold) while I was on hold. FINALLY some professional service!

Philip - to add to your comments (please) ...

The one thing I think most people miss (not you) is that not only is Paypal all the things you discussed (Payday lender, money transmitter) ... Its that THEIR ENTIRE business model is based on sellers FAILING.

Their factors have CLEARLY told them to stop the "bleeding" and since you cant take it out on buyers (eBays mantra) - go take it out on sellers. "go find a reason NOT TO PAY THEM".

Each time a seller "wins", their factor/insurance company has to take the "hit".

So when a seller calls, they put you on hold - not to help - but to see if they can find a reason NOT to refund you.

Its ridiculous that the playing field is so slanted.

They should be a simple cc processor and no more. I trust CHASE more then Paypal/eBay since I know they DONT have my best interests at heart.

Chase (just as example) has no vested interest in helping either party. The facts are what they are and thats "it".

TG I won this one (5 months) ... lets see ow it goes for the rest of 2016!

PayPal Refunds eBay Purchases for up to 6 Months   PayPal Refunds eBay Purchases for up to 6 Months

This user has validated their user name. by: LasVagueness

Thu Feb 4 14:19:46 2016

@comet Agree.

PayPal Refunds eBay Purchases for up to 6 Months   PayPal Refunds eBay Purchases for up to 6 Months

This user has validated their user name. by: Philip Cohen
Web Site

Thu Feb 4 18:36:07 2016

Now that the professional online payments offerings from the world's retail banks ("MasterPass" and "Visa Checkout") are available for any online merchant that already has (or can obtain) a credit card merchant account with their own real bank, "PreyPal" has only one thing on its mind and that is to protect its brand in the minds of its existing "payer-users"; it has not the same interest in its "merchants", for the same reason eBay (rightly) considers its "buyers" more important than its "sellers". This situation will be amplified as the captive customer base of PayPal users on the atrophying eBay marketplace continues to contract in number and becomes more "desperate" ...

So, undoubtedly, PayPal's commercial interests are best served by pandering to its "payers", particularly its off-eBay users, and it is therefore probable that whereas merchants may have cause for complaint from time to time, buyers (who are programmed to look for the "PayPal" logo) will, in the main, likely be happy; if they are happy, they will have no reason to look elsewhere.

This pandering to payers is particularly necessary because, as previously said, PayPal is, in the main, only a clunky middleman; "PreyPal" is not a "licensed financial institution"; virtually everything that they do (credit card processing, ACH direct debits, payment cards, provide credit, etc.) is done via arrangements (including the operating of a credit card merchant account) with real licensed banks; even the PayPal-branded payment cards are not issued by "PreyPal" but by a real licensed bank (look at the micro print thereon); the same applies to PayPal's providing of credit: all done via some real bank hiding away in the (microprint) undergrowth.

"PreyPal" is not a "licensed financial institution" in any sense that a real "bank" is; "PreyPal" is little more than a late night TV marketing operation; to paraphrase PayPal's own words, "PayPal is a merchant of sorts"; and now that MasterPass and Visa Checkout are available, PayPal's "Best by" date is on the horizon ...

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