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Fri Oct 21 2016 16:00:25

eBay Seller Says PayPal Is Siding with a Bad Buyer

By: Reader

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Dear Ina,
I sold a pair of (designer) shoes, new in box for a total of (over $500). The buyer waited 3 weeks before filing a claim with Pay Pal, on Sept 13, stating the shoes are counterfeit. He never went thru eBay. No contact was received from buyer at all until Sept 13. Then on Sept 13 later in the night he escalated it to a dispute. 

I purchased 7 pair of these exact shoes (along with 80 others) from an authorized retailer to sell on eBay of which this pair was one. eBay and VERO have never pulled my listings for any issue including "counterfeits".

At the time of purchase, this buyer had a zero feedback on eBay and I have a stellar record of over 5,000. Over the course of the last weeks Pay Pal asked me to provide different types of proof. Never did the buyer need to provide anything except a written "claim".  

I immediately submitted a copy of the shoe purchase from the well- known store I bought them from along with the SKU's and payment proof. That wasn't enough for PayPal so they asked the buyer to return the merchandise. OK fine. On Sept. 29 I received an email that stated PayPal had not heard from buyer so the case was found in my favor.

Well, on Oct.1 PayPal sends another email stating the buyer uploaded a tracking number so they are closing the case in the buyer's favor. I called PP and was told by the "Supervisor" that she was surprised PP reversed a binding decision and that she would look into this situation.

Days later a small white padded envelope arrives, from the same city as the buyer, containing coupons and nothing else. The tracking of this gets confusing since the buyer sent the envelope via Fed Ex Smart Post which means the tracking numbers change because Fed Ex gets the package initially then the US Post Office takes over for the final delivery. If a PP representative took time to look at the evidence I provided they could match the tracking numbers to the envelope and verify that the shoes were not returned.

I submitted photos of the package along with its contents explaining to Pay Pal that a box of shoe could never be contained inside. That wasn't enough for PP so I was told to get a police report and did immediately.

As soon as the police report was available I uploaded it to PP. After contacting PP a few more times over 12 days to inquire on the status (I was told each time that it's been escalated) I get another email from PP. This time PP wrote "We received your fax. However, the document provided does not meet our requirements. Please provide valid documentation by October 23, 2016. This time period cannot be extended further."

I called within 10 hours of receiving the email since it came while I was asleep, and asked what evidence would meet their requirements. Since purchase receipts, photos of what was returned and a police report weren't good enough.  

The "Supervisor" I spoke with could not give me a definitive answer. She said a decision will be made in 72 hours. And she is "escalating" it, again. 

I don't need to tell you how frustrated I am with PP. I am now going back to the police to ask for assistance and want to know if you have any other suggestions.  
Please don't use my name




Comments (29) | Permalink

Readers Comments

eBay Seller Says PayPal Is Siding with a Bad Buyer   eBay Seller Says PayPal Is Siding with a Bad Buyer

This user has validated their user name. by: iheartjacksparrow

Fri Oct 21 17:05:58 2016

OP - Did you file the police report in the city where your buyer lives? If not, file one there as well and e-mail a copy to your buyer so she knows you're not joking. File a report with the U.S. Attorney's Office in the city where your buyer lives, and file a report on the FBI's fraud site. And don't forget to file a mail fraud complaint with the postmaster of your post office. And be sure to advise your buyer of every step you take and maybe she'll decide it's not worth spending time in jail over a pair of shoes.

eBay Seller Says PayPal Is Siding with a Bad Buyer   eBay Seller Says PayPal Is Siding with a Bad Buyer

by: strife This user has validated their user name.

Sat Oct 22 08:25:58 2016

Firstly, this is going to fall into the category of ''Wire Fraud'' and if the buyer is in another state from you then this immediately, even without being Wire Fraud, becomes a Federal Offence if the buyer is proven to be a scammer. You can file a complaint to the FBI IC3 (Internet Crime) division https://www.ic3.gov/complaint/default.aspx

Tell PayPal that YOU HAVE ESCALATED THIS TO THE FBI and send them a copy of the response you get when you file with IC3.

They may well still let the scammer get his way but this should stop them taking anything back from you at the very least.

The thing to remeber with PayPal is that they are ALWAYS lazy and cheap. Least amount of work possible without spending any money so threats of Federal authority involvement, prolonged investigation etc etc should have the desired effect.

Hope this helps

eBay Seller Says PayPal Is Siding with a Bad Buyer   eBay Seller Says PayPal Is Siding with a Bad Buyer

by: pace306 This user has validated their user name.

Sat Oct 22 19:56:52 2016

Paypal ONLY cares about not getting wacked by CC chargebacks charges and nothing else.

In these types of cases - whether its VERO or Paypal, whether its Parallel Imports or counterfeit claims - your supposed business partners really dont care.

I just had an eBay case where the buyer "couldnt print the return lablel" and so I got a defect (and they cant/wont explain why).

Simply - they just dont care.


On another note - the sending back an empty envelope is part of the fraud that eBay and Paypal condone. Its the simplest kind of fraud.

You buy XXXX then make a return. You simply then return an empty or paper filled envelope and upload the tracking showing that return.

Since Sellers are the scum of humanity (right  after child molesters, rapists, drug dealers, and human trafficers) they are never believed. The empty envelope comes, the buyer claims the item was returned and eBay closes it in the buyers favor since sellers wont be believed.


What a shame that THIS is what eBay has become.

eBay Seller Says PayPal Is Siding with a Bad Buyer   eBay Seller Says PayPal Is Siding with a Bad Buyer

by: Jus_e This user has validated their user name.

Sun Oct 23 06:19:27 2016

I would never ever sell a 500 pair of shoes on ebay, use Tradesy. There you have a fighting chance.
The most I might go on ebay is 200 bucks, with insurance, certified return receipt,signature confirmation... hell, might even deliver it myself...lol  I tend to keep my products under $25.00.

eBay Seller Says PayPal Is Siding with a Bad Buyer   eBay Seller Says PayPal Is Siding with a Bad Buyer

This user has validated their user name. by: toolguy

Sun Oct 23 10:20:32 2016

I just got over a CC chargeback, Paypal ruled in my favor against the chargeback!

The whole thing was kind of weird, my customer paid a second time after I alerted him of the dispute with a different CC. Paypal refunded my buyer the 2nd payment and fought the 1st 1 and won.

eBay Seller Says PayPal Is Siding with a Bad Buyer   eBay Seller Says PayPal Is Siding with a Bad Buyer

This user has validated their user name. by: Marie

Sun Oct 23 13:12:56 2016

Because a buyer files a claim with PP doesn't mean it is a "chargeback".  It only becomes a "chargeback" if the buyer paid with a CC and reported the SNAD to the CCC.  

The OP doesn't mention a "chargeback", they simply state a claim.  

With the significant difference in what was shipped back to the seller, one could logically think that the return label used would have a weight and/or package size used that would not match the package actually shipped.  That info is coded inside that barcode.

Certainly a big mess and completely unfair to the seller.  There certainly is some great advice already given so no need to repeat that.  The only thing I might add is if you have a local new station that has an investigative reporter you can email or call.  I'd do that.  We have a local one that has proved time and time again how helpful he can be to a positive resolution.

eBay Seller Says PayPal Is Siding with a Bad Buyer   eBay Seller Says PayPal Is Siding with a Bad Buyer

by: pace306 This user has validated their user name.

Sun Oct 23 15:25:38 2016

I agree with Marie ... its odd that the label didnt have a weight on the sticker.

EVERY label issued by the PO or by any of its agents has a weight (and the weight and dimensions as well as the originating and destination zips) are encoded in the bar code label .....

EVERY SELLER, EVERY SELLER - needs to understand that they are basically ALONE when selling on eBay.

eBay and Paypal act to protect themselves and NOT the seller - sellers must use EVERY tool available to them !

eBay Seller Says PayPal Is Siding with a Bad Buyer   eBay Seller Says PayPal Is Siding with a Bad Buyer

This user has validated their user name. by: toolguy

Sun Oct 23 15:30:07 2016

eBay & Paypal have protected me many times over the years!

My partner (ebay) understands my business and helps me whenever I ask for it.

Return label? Never had to pay for one of those. . .

eBay Seller Says PayPal Is Siding with a Bad Buyer   eBay Seller Says PayPal Is Siding with a Bad Buyer

This user has validated their user name. by: Marie

Sun Oct 23 16:44:25 2016

As they have me toolguy.  I don't always have bad experiences.  More bad ones on Ebay than PP, but still there are things that go wrong.  But just because it hasn't happened to you does not mean that it is just not an issue at all.  You can keep your head in the sand if you choose, but it will not change what can and does happen to other people.  Trying to dismiss the gravity of someone else's problem just because it hasn't happened to you is just not realistic.

I have no idea after all this time you continue to post things that are condescending or give the appearance of disbelieve just because it isn't anything you've experienced.

Do you honestly believe that or is it just your way of firing up others on threads?

eBay Seller Says PayPal Is Siding with a Bad Buyer   eBay Seller Says PayPal Is Siding with a Bad Buyer

This user has validated their user name. by: Ming the Merciless

Sun Oct 23 16:50:40 2016

PayPal would do well to remember that in less than four years their cozy little restraint of trade deal with ebay expires.

Unless renewed, which IMO would be a legally questionable deal, just watch all the online sellers PayPal has screwed give them the boot.

 

eBay Seller Says PayPal Is Siding with a Bad Buyer   eBay Seller Says PayPal Is Siding with a Bad Buyer

This user has validated their user name. by: toolguy

Sun Oct 23 22:22:49 2016

@ Ming

If I were to give Paypal the so called boot who would I use?

My credit is below average!

Way below. . .

eBay Seller Says PayPal Is Siding with a Bad Buyer   eBay Seller Says PayPal Is Siding with a Bad Buyer

by: The Not So New Guy This user has validated their user name.

Mon Oct 24 00:53:14 2016

@ Marie, He's not trying to hide his head in the sand. He just doesn't care about the OP or anyone else on the boards. Some people are just like that, can't be helped.

@ toolguy, Whether your credit is below average, or you ability to empathize with others is below average is not an issue. There are plenty of services where neither would affect you in the least. Square, Pay Anywhere and a few others will happily let you take credit cards no matter what.

@ everyone, This is not a situation limited to eBay or to PayPal. This is a widespread issue everywhere. You keep calling these people your business ''partners''. Wake up, none of them are your partners. Whether it's a direct V/MC processor or any of the myriad of named payment providers they are not your partners. They provide, and charge you for a service to benefit their companies, and whenever it is a choice between you losing money or them losing money, guess who they choose? You got it, they almost always choose you. So stop thinking of them as your ''friend'' or your ''partner'' and start looking out for yourself, they are not looking out for you unless it's not going to cost them money.

Op, you have received some good advice so far. The main thing to remember is you did nothing wrong. You have to keep fighting, keep calling, keep providing proof, keep doing it until you're the squeaky wheel. Complain to everyone that will listen, and keep doing it till they admit it's fraud and cover you.

We had a similar issue for a lot less money, and it was on eBay not through PayPal. After we filed a formal complaint with the local police on the buyers end the buyer sent some ridiculous email claiming they sent us back the wrong item and they were sorry so eBay had no choice but to give us back our money. So keep fighting, and keep messaging the buyer even if they don't answer. Tell them you're filing with the police, send them copies of the filing, you could get a break and the buyer could get worried enough to make a mistake.

Good luck!

eBay Seller Says PayPal Is Siding with a Bad Buyer   eBay Seller Says PayPal Is Siding with a Bad Buyer

This user has validated their user name. by: toolguy

Mon Oct 24 01:26:09 2016

@ Not so new guy

Where did I state I didn't care about the OP or anyone else on this board, seems that's YOUR opinion and not fact!

When the time comes that eBay & Paypal part ways my customers will determine who I use for a payment system.

If most people want Square I'll switch, if more people want Paypal I'll stay put.

eBay Seller Says PayPal Is Siding with a Bad Buyer   eBay Seller Says PayPal Is Siding with a Bad Buyer

This user has validated their user name. by: Rexford

Mon Oct 24 11:59:51 2016

Do exactly what iheartjacksparrow suggested.  Don't let up. Fight.  I would be all over this and I would not let up.

eBay Seller Says PayPal Is Siding with a Bad Buyer   eBay Seller Says PayPal Is Siding with a Bad Buyer

by: The Not So New Guy This user has validated their user name.

Mon Oct 24 12:01:32 2016

@ Toolguy You didn't state it, you don't have to state it, it's obvious. Just read your posts, and ask yourself if you think it looks like you acre or are helping the OP or offering anything constructive to anyone else. Trust me, it's obvious.

A free piece of advise, don't switch providers because your customers like it. Switch because it's good for you. Make sure you protect yourself. The buyers may like it because it offers you less protection, not because it's better for you.

eBay Seller Says PayPal Is Siding with a Bad Buyer   eBay Seller Says PayPal Is Siding with a Bad Buyer

by: The Not So New Guy This user has validated their user name.

Mon Oct 24 12:03:37 2016

@ Toolguy You didn't state it, you don't have to state it, it's obvious. Just read your posts, and ask yourself if you think it looks like you care or are helping the OP or offering anything constructive to anyone else. Trust me, it's obvious.

A free piece of advice, don't switch providers because your customers like it. Switch because it's good for you. Make sure you protect yourself. The buyers may like it because it offers you less protection, not because it's better for you.  

eBay Seller Says PayPal Is Siding with a Bad Buyer   eBay Seller Says PayPal Is Siding with a Bad Buyer

This user has validated their user name. by: toolguy

Mon Oct 24 13:50:56 2016

@ not so new guy

I put my customers before myself

Maybe that's why I've been so successful at ebay ~ LOL

I'm not rich but I sure am happy :-)

eBay Seller Says PayPal Is Siding with a Bad Buyer   eBay Seller Says PayPal Is Siding with a Bad Buyer

This user has validated their user name. by: toolguy

Mon Oct 24 13:52:36 2016

I've only bought 1 item on eBay that I was unhappy with.

They were a pair of Van's tennis shoes.

Shoes are a hard sell item on eBay. . .

eBay Seller Says PayPal Is Siding with a Bad Buyer   eBay Seller Says PayPal Is Siding with a Bad Buyer

by: Tiffee Jasso This user has validated their user name.

Mon Oct 24 14:18:59 2016

I go with what iheartjacksparrow said. I too would pursue the case. Also if FEDEX has the weight and details in the bar code, go to their office and ask for a print out. Other than that I would like to know the guilty party's initials and city.

eBay Seller Says PayPal Is Siding with a Bad Buyer   eBay Seller Says PayPal Is Siding with a Bad Buyer

by: ssusannss This user has validated their user name.

Mon Oct 24 14:37:26 2016

I had three cases where paypal sided with bad buyers, and took my money out of my account. I calmly wrote out all of the facts, concisely and as briefly as possible without leaving anything out. I then opened complaints with the Better Business Bureau each time. Each and every time I had my money back within 45 days. They don't want this garbage on their BBB page for people to read, they want the cases resolved. It's all online, and once you write out your case, it takes about 10 minutes to make the complaint. It can't hurt.  

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