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Sat Jan 23 2016 15:05:07

A Buyer's Perspective on eBay SNAD Claims

By: Reader

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Dear Ina,
It seems that there are huge problems on eBay these days with buyers "not as described" merchandise and the system involving eBay Money Back Guarantee. 

I have had to file two cases (returns for items not as described) in the past two weeks and here is my experience.

Case #1
I purchased some eyeshadow from a seller with 3 feedback. The photo of the item was exactly what I was looking for in shades and what I had been using. The shade names she gave were Shades: Ball Gown, Tre's Chic, Elitist, Couture which means nothing to a buyer, but the photo was that of my item that I use so I purchased it. 

What I received was not what was pictured. They were dark - one was a sparkle, not at all what was advertised, so I requested a return for item not as described. I was told that if the seller did not offer the return with refund that I could escalate the case on January 7 and that the case would close on February 15 if the case was not resolved or I did not escalate the case. 

The seller only wanted to argue so we went to escalate the case to eBay on January 8 and we received in red letters the message "you are not authorized to make this decision at this time. Now the date to escalate the case has changed to February 15 (the date the case would close) and at the top of the page it still says "if you have not agreed on a solution you can ask us to step in on January 7." Yet when we try to do that it says we are cannot do this. 

I called PayPal and they transferred me to eBay. I spoke to two different customer service people there. They told me that I could escalate the case and that they were doing it for me and they would send me an email and a label to return this product. 

The email never came nor did the label ever come. I had to call PayPal and file a case with them and they filed the case and decided the case in that phone call and gave me a refund.

Case #2
I purchased a Microsoft Office 2007 full English Version Brand New. What I received was an opened disc package with scribbles on the inside of the package and the outside of the package has the Product Key and Says Microsoft Office SB 2007 Trial Version OEM. They sent me a 2007 Trial. 

For anyone who knows software a trial version is good for 30 days then you have to purchase the software from Microsoft or put in a Product Key to activate the full version. No product key for the full version was given. Possibly that was what was scratched out on the disc package. This is useless. You cannot even run a 30 day trial on a 2007 software and this said full version and she sent a trial with no code to activate for the full version.

I filed a return request for "item not as described". 

I emailed the seller after filing the case and I even got their contact information from eBay and tried to contact them. I even sent a text message which was delivered and read but I got no response from the seller.

Today was the first business day since I filed for a return of this item and I got an email that the seller had asked eBay to step in. Ten minutes later I got an email that eBay had decided the case in the sellers favor and that this item did not qualify for eBay Money back Guarantee.

I went to eBay immediately to look at the listing again and in the listing it says eBay Money Back Guarantee.

I tried to email eBay or call eBay but when you click to appeal you end up with a blank page and no contact information to contact eBay. I again had to call PayPal dispute to file a dispute on this eBay transaction.

What is going on with eBay? This has become a circus for fraudulent buyers and there is no system to get your money back. I am thankful for PayPal and for Buyer credit that when one fails (eBay) you have two others that will not fail. 

I would not advise anyone to buy ANYTHING ON EBAY without paying using buyer credit or PayPal Smart Connect to protect yourself. This website has become a haven for scam artists.
L.




Comments (25) | Permalink

Readers Comments

A Buyer's Perspective on eBay SNAD Claims   A Buyer's Perspective on eBay SNAD Claims

This user has validated their user name. by: bitbybit

Sat Jan 23 17:16:43 2016

Software and name brand beauty products are two categories where a buyer has to do their due diligence or stay clear from buying online. Many news reports, articles, reviews etc. have been made over the years warning buyers of potential fraud. It is just not only on eBay but everywhere even in b&m stores.

The same thing happened to me when purchasing eyeshadow as a gift. It was not the name brand I thought UD but a poor cheap copy.

With that being said, there still are honest sellers in both those categories. The problem with eBay is both buyers and sellers have to do a lot of work to get anything resolved on eBay with contradictory  advice given from CSR to CSR and department to department. Now add in eBay's own glitch filled software and it is no wonder both sellers and buyers look for other avenues like CC or,in this case, Paypal to get issues resolved. Ebay ONLY looks at its bottom line and does not care about its sellers or buyers if it leads to money being taken out of their pockets. ''Money for Nothing'' by Dire Straits is how eBay and a lot of corporations operate today. ''Take the Money and Run'' also fits.

A Buyer's Perspective on eBay SNAD Claims   A Buyer's Perspective on eBay SNAD Claims

by: FeelingFroggy This user has validated their user name.

Sat Jan 23 17:30:20 2016

Your problem is that you along with a million other people really really think that fleecebay cares what happens to you.

Dealing with Fleecebay is like dealing with the Government. Useless

A Buyer's Perspective on eBay SNAD Claims   A Buyer's Perspective on eBay SNAD Claims

by: fashionista This user has validated their user name.

Sat Jan 23 21:15:25 2016

sorry, but I do not agree with you on the eyeshadow case at all " which means nothing to a buyer"
Most cosmetic buyer purchase by brand and name of shade, pictures mean little to them, as colors display differently in different monitors or mobile devices.
The name of the color meas everything to the buyer.  I sell a lot of cosmetics, and I constantly receive questions, do you have xxxx color,
you should not have won the case because you didn't read the description or at least ask the seller.

A Buyer's Perspective on eBay SNAD Claims   A Buyer's Perspective on eBay SNAD Claims

This user has validated their user name. by: bitbybit

Sun Jan 24 04:18:59 2016

Even though the OP should have known the name of the shade, I did see the mineral BM eyeshadow palette she was referring to. Many popular makeup brands, especially the palettes, are dupes. The palette I ordered was an UD dupe with shades and pigments being way off. After this happened to me, I researched (wish I would have done it before)and found out how rampant this fraud runs in the beauty industry. Buyers can no longer go by just photos and descriptions. They now have to dig deeper to make sure they are getting the real deal. The scammers make it difficult for honest sellers to earn and establish trust from buyers.

P.S. the monitor color variances has always been an issue and drives me crazy when trying to take photos of certain items to list.    

A Buyer's Perspective on eBay SNAD Claims   A Buyer's Perspective on eBay SNAD Claims

This user has validated their user name. by: Rexford

Sun Jan 24 10:26:28 2016

I can only imagine an honest seller's pain selling cosmetics. I would not even want to go there.

With countless variations of shades of cosmetics, some being ever so subtle, it seems to me that these items should be bought at a cosmetic counter or at least in a store where they can be viewed without the lens of a computer monitor.

A Buyer's Perspective on eBay SNAD Claims   A Buyer's Perspective on eBay SNAD Claims

by: Frank F This user has validated their user name.

Sun Jan 24 11:53:01 2016

The horrible Chinese and Hong Kong sellers do this all the time as they know you cannot return it due to excess cost.

They ship to us for .79 cents because our stupid government and USPS has partnered with ebay to give the Chinese an overpowering advantage over US small businesses.

I tried to return an item to a Chinese seller that they shipped for less than a $1 and it was going to cost $20 to ship it back to them...

WE ALL need to raise hell about this eggregious, unethical and UN-AMERICAN selling advantage that China has over the U.S.A.!!

The Chinese are direct selling to Americans everywhere these days and have eliminated the middle man and end retailer (that were American businesses.. Ebay, Amazon, etsy, stand alone websites, facebook, etc etc etc., and so many fake counterfeit items that violate our brands and trademarks..

Our economy is in ruins and we have no jobs, how can our government continue to allow this unfair practice to allow China to direct retail to the US consumer?!

Call your congressman, CALL!! CALL!! EVERYONE, CALL until they do something AND before 绍兴, 浙江省, China becomes our nations capital...!!

A Buyer's Perspective on eBay SNAD Claims   A Buyer's Perspective on eBay SNAD Claims

This user has validated their user name. by: Marie

Sun Jan 24 15:24:34 2016

Personally I think it is very wrong that a buyer was treated like this from Ebay.  Whether the buyer is right or wrong, how Ebay handled BOTH cases was wrong.  

We don't know the exact communications that happened between buyer and seller, so I have no opinion on that.  But Ebay should have been more proactive with the buyer.  Possibly the buyer still would not have won on the cosmetic claim, but still yet, Ebay could do a much better job in handling the situations.

I'm glad PP stepped in and did right by the buyer.  If for no other reason that Ebay screwed up.  I am sincerely sorry this happened to the OP.  And I assure you that there are a whole lot of sellers out there that would have never allowed this treatment of a customer on a claim.

Even when I disagree with a customer regarding a return or request for refund.  I am always professional, polite and I always care.

A Buyer's Perspective on eBay SNAD Claims   A Buyer's Perspective on eBay SNAD Claims

This user has validated their user name. by: bitbybit

Sun Jan 24 16:13:56 2016

Since the kinda sorta split of paypal from ebay in July where all the debt was placed on eBay, it seems ebays refusal to work with buyers and of course sellers, they want cases like this to be dumped onto paypal. All the wishy washy date frames to file a case, along with dismissive customer service, leads me to believe my prior statement. Not that eBay had stellar customer service before, but their attitude and handling in this matter were extremely poor. Ebay's lack of transparency with both buyers and sellers is always an issue and on the forefront.  

A Buyer's Perspective on eBay SNAD Claims   A Buyer's Perspective on eBay SNAD Claims

This user has validated their user name. by: Marie

Sun Jan 24 16:26:32 2016

@bitbybit

What purpose does that serve?  If PP refunds the buyer, the seller can contact Ebay and get their FVF back.  So how does Ebay benefit?  By pissing off both the buyer and seller?

A Buyer's Perspective on eBay SNAD Claims   A Buyer's Perspective on eBay SNAD Claims

This user has validated their user name. by: Rexford

Sun Jan 24 17:36:13 2016

Marie, I agree with you up to about as it relates to PayPal, but from what I see, PayPal pretty much has a "buyer is always right" policy as it relates to refunds. I know because I experienced it first hand when one of my buyers lost an eBay snad case she filed against me.  The buyer then went to PayPal, lied about what had transpired and PayPal refunded her.  That's just wrong.

A Buyer's Perspective on eBay SNAD Claims   A Buyer's Perspective on eBay SNAD Claims

This user has validated their user name. by: Marie

Sun Jan 24 20:16:03 2016

That wasn't my experience before the split.  But I have not had a claim since the split yet.  

A Buyer's Perspective on eBay SNAD Claims   A Buyer's Perspective on eBay SNAD Claims

by: Tiffee Jasso This user has validated their user name.

Mon Jan 25 00:52:48 2016

If is my opinion and I think a scientific fact that monitors or screens do not show all colors equal. If you are fussy about what color you want for any item, be it makeup or clothing, then do go to town and check it out for yourself. Whether a buyer realizes it or not, shipping is not free for sellers.
As for buying software, there is no excuse for the item showing up different than stated or pictured. Seller should have stood behind the sale to start with unless, buyer confused Windows program they really needed. In that case the buyer should fess up and at least pay to return the item and get back their money.  

A Buyer's Perspective on eBay SNAD Claims   A Buyer's Perspective on eBay SNAD Claims

This user has validated their user name. by: bitbybit

Mon Jan 25 01:47:31 2016

The point I was trying to make, obviously not very well, about eBay leaving Paypal to resolve issues is eBay does not want to give refunds out of their own pockets. If sellers are selling millions worth of fake products and ebay is making money from those FVFs, the seller is not going to request a refund of their FVFs from eBay. I could almost bet this 3 feedback seller along with friends, relatives and countrymen had multiple IDs. What is not transparent is the sellers' history, location etc. Of course we know ebay would never do anything unethical and support fraud of any kind when it comes to money.  

A Buyer's Perspective on eBay SNAD Claims   A Buyer's Perspective on eBay SNAD Claims

by: comet This user has validated their user name.

Mon Jan 25 02:16:02 2016

I had a Case just this week where I merely contacted the seller of an item that was NOT as advertised;  I did NOT file a SNAD;   since the seller wanted the item back I returned it with the proviso that the SELLER would refund me for the shipping.  They refunded me ONLY for the item price and then went silent.  However I was surprised to see several odd pages FROM ebay---

First one--that I had to dig to find---told me I could "Ask them to intervene"  after a certain time;  when I went to DO that I got a page that offered NO links or any other way TO ask them to intervene;  since Paypal was mentioned I called them.  

PP was not thrilled but their explanation of course is that they have NOTHING to do with eBay and can't take money form a Seller--since WHEN I would like to know!---and that the SELLER here had made some sort of unilateral CANCEL of the transaction.  But because I am one of their "Most Valuable Customers"  they would courtesy refund me the shipping.   Since this took all of about 3 minutes I accepted it--knowing that my entire day could be taken up with ebay if I tried to call them.  

Later on I received another page from EBAY telling me that the problem had been RESOLVED and I did not NEED TO RETURN---I was FURIOUS because I had spent 20% of the item price on returning it!  Not that I wanted a defective item but I would not have paid to ship it back if I had known I did not have to.  


I am NOT happy that the seller got to cancel the sale after the fact with no input;  I do not know if this counts against them;  and I really don't like getting told I cannot file a CASE when the seller did not live up to their own statements.  There seems to be NO buyer protection anymore and much as we like to beeeatch about how buyers are always right in ebay's eyes--I don't think this is true anymore.  

A Buyer's Perspective on eBay SNAD Claims   A Buyer's Perspective on eBay SNAD Claims

This user has validated their user name. by: Marie

Mon Jan 25 02:42:19 2016

@bitbybit

"The point I was trying to make, obviously not very well, about eBay leaving Paypal to resolve issues is eBay does not want to give refunds out of their own pockets."  They don't have to, that is a choice made by an Ebay employee, there is nothing to force them to do that.

Why wouldn't sellers ask for FVF back?  Ebay does some to stop fake products, but I have known of some sellers that have been around a long time selling fakes.  They have been reported multiple times that I'm aware of yet they are still active on Ebay.  

I'm not trying to pick on you at all.  You are certainly entitled to your opinion.  I just don't see the up side to Ebay passing off claims to PP to resolve on a regular basis.  Besides, most sellers on Ebay don't sell fakes.  

A Buyer's Perspective on eBay SNAD Claims   A Buyer's Perspective on eBay SNAD Claims

This user has validated their user name. by: Rexford

Mon Jan 25 07:15:26 2016

Marie says "I just don't see the up side to Ebay passing off claims to PP to resolve on a regular basis."

I totally agree with this. The transaction occurs on eBay. eBay should handle it. IF eBay decides in a sellers favor that should be the end of it. I don't respect a buyer who then runs to PayPal because they didn't get their way, especially one who lies about the details of the eBay case.

A Buyer's Perspective on eBay SNAD Claims   A Buyer's Perspective on eBay SNAD Claims

by: moonmyst This user has validated their user name.

Mon Jan 25 08:51:27 2016

I agree with FASHIONISTA.
In regard to the eyeshadow, a buyer cannot rely on a photo when purchasing a cosmetic item. The seller had diligently listed the names of the colors and it was up to the buyer to verify those were the ones she wanted. I agree with eBay's decision on that case.

A Buyer's Perspective on eBay SNAD Claims   A Buyer's Perspective on eBay SNAD Claims

by: fashionista This user has validated their user name.

Mon Jan 25 10:01:23 2016

@bitbybit  
nobody is denying there are lots of fakes out there, the point is that the buyer said she purchased the item based on the picture, and that even though the seller listed each color, that was irrelevant that buyers don't pay attention to that.  That is COMPLETELY false, there are tons of shades and name DOES matter.  This was clearly buyer remorse, because she did NOT read the item description,  Ebay was correct in its decision.
Colors vary in different monitors/devices, it's not just ebay, I can see a difference with the same page from Neimans on my pc or phone.

A Buyer's Perspective on eBay SNAD Claims   A Buyer's Perspective on eBay SNAD Claims

by: topdog This user has validated their user name.

Mon Jan 25 10:09:25 2016

There is no doubt in my mind (or that of anyone who has experience selling on eBay) that there are a good number of fakes, counterfeits, and falsely advertised items for sale on the site. This has been the case for years, and has only gotten worse over time, especially as the percentage of Chinese sellers has increased. EBay has played a big part in this, both by granting sellers anonymity as well as having a "revolving door" policy - removing fraudulent sellers but leaving them the option to come back under a different name. I can clearly see the need for a SNAD policy on the site.
That said, sellers also see a different side which buyers do not. We see many buyers who view this as a way to get back their money for virtually ANY reason. Most established US sellers are extremely scrupulous (we have to be) and work very hard to detail everything that a buyer might want to know. We find it extremely frustration (and costly) when a buyer then uses the SNAD policy to get refunds on items where they did not read the listing, or had buyer's remorse, or used the product (often for a good length of time) before returning it.
The primary problem with this policy is that it assumes the seller to be at fault. Make no mistake - just as there are unscrupulous sellers out there, there are also many unscrupulous (and entitled) buyers as well. EBay's (and Paypal's) policy gives buyers holes big enough to drive a battalion of M1 tanks through, and use it to defraud sellers. This is just as wrong as the opposite, having sellers defraud buyers - the end result should be fair and impartial transactions where no one is taken advantage of.  

A Buyer's Perspective on eBay SNAD Claims   A Buyer's Perspective on eBay SNAD Claims

by: topdog This user has validated their user name.

Mon Jan 25 10:12:43 2016

In regards to the OP, any time my wife goes into Ulta, or any cosmetics store, she asks for the product by the name of the shade. The difference in color between several shades can look very minute when looking at it, yet will be obvious after being worn.
Some items simply are better being purchased in a store. This may be one of them

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