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Sun Jan 17 2016 16:50:53

If You Don't Win a Claim Against an eBay Seller, Try, Try Again

By: Reader

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Dear Ina,
I am writing because I had a customer who purchased two items from me (electronics) for about $400.00. They were identical items with two different serial numbers. The buyer contacts us after receiving the items and indicates he received only one of the two (two were sent in the same box).

He wanted a refund, and for us to pay return shipping. We immediately contacted him and let him know that our supplier doesn't carry the other product in question and we tried to give him an out that we packaged these items in the same box and they were the same. We asked him if he was getting confused with another seller he purchased from? 

He immediately opens up a Money Back Guarantee case and, thankfully for us, he lied and told eBay that he only received one electronic, instead of two. We say thankfully because we had his earlier message that indicated that he received two items and one was different. 

Thus, being caught in the lie eBay sided with us and told us nothing more was needed in our view or so we thought and it begins...

Two weeks later, we get a return request for item not as described from the same buyer. We thought to ourselves this is easy, we will just call eBay because they sided with us in the Money Back Guarantee case. 

To our amazement they told me the following - "You promised a customer a return period of 30 days, we can't let you not honor that." We inquired if they were concerned that someone who in our view tried to commit fraud would not be honest to return the $400.00 (x2) products? 

We were told, "...that most buyers are honest." We inquired what would happen if the buyer returned us only one of the items or did the switcharoo. We were told that this is, "...the cost of doing business but it likely won't happen."

Really? I relayed to customer service that I will file mail fraud complaint if the buyer does what I think he is going to do. At least I can pursue legal remedies, and I was told that doing that would prevent this customer from purchasing from me in the future. I lost it, and conveyed that these aren't my customers they are eBay's customers, I have already blocked this customer for good. 

Not a good policy to send law enforcement after someone defrauding our company in our view? Really, what if we defrauded eBay don't you think they would pursue us in ten seconds flat? 

However if I wanted I could report the buyer and they would look into it. See to me if the buyer defrauds one person a year and pays the rest of the people eBay makes money, does he not? Thus, eBay wants you to give free returns so the customer come back to eBay just not you. 

We just do not get how we can win a Money Back Guarantee case and have to take a return from someone who was caught in a lie and tried in our view to commit fraud? Isn't fraud (we aren't lawyers) when you allege that you received only one of two items sent? Yet, the buyer's earlier emails indicate he received two items? How the heck is that the cost of doing business? 

So now we await to see what we receive back in the mail.  eBay needs to make a policy if a Money Back Guarantee case is found in favor of the seller, all return policies are null and void, especially when the buyer was caught in an absolute lie in our view. 

Now our money is tied up in PayPal and has been for too long and now we wait to see what comes back. We were told we could call back if he submitted the wrong item, but fortunately few buyers do this and there isn't much that can be done.

This is why in our view they made defects go away on cases where you paid the return shipping. If a buyer is unhappy just take it back because we are going to take it back no matter what. See when you make the buyer wait to take it back when he is defrauding you he gets upset and angry. If you simply take it back from day one you don't get a defect see as you paid the ransom (the return). 

I am for the first time looking at other venues eBay needs to go away for good. What seller protection?
Allan




Comments (23) | Permalink

Readers Comments

If You Don't Win a Claim Against an eBay Seller, T   If You Don't Win a Claim Against an eBay Seller, T

by: Xander This user has validated their user name.

Sun Jan 17 20:37:10 2016

Ebay is a minefield and has been one for quite a while now.

For some, it just takes one experience like the one the OP explains above while others continue to spin the wheel on ebay with hopes they won't be forced into a situation where they hear those awful words ''that's the cost of doing business'' which is so far from the truth, it isn't funny.

We left ebay a few years back and have not heard that statement since. We ditched paypal also, we only use stripe for online payments and our own merchant account for phone payments.

The cost of doing business is ... well, nothing but doing business. If we make a mistake, we fix it as quickly as possible. We believe most business owners know how to treat their customers, they don't need a venue to force them to pay return shipping or accept returns as not as described. What utter nonsense ebay has become.

At some point, every ebay seller will choose to stay and spin the wheel or leave and try their hand on their own or on another venue where they make their own policies.

I still come here to read the stories but have never experienced the type of in-justice ebay shells out since we left.

On our web site, we make the rules and customers pay for shipping and for returns. We choose what is refundable and what is not.

Too bad this is what ebay has become. It once was a great place to sell.

If You Don't Win a Claim Against an eBay Seller, T   If You Don't Win a Claim Against an eBay Seller, T

This user has validated their user name. by: iheartjacksparrow

Sun Jan 17 23:20:04 2016

@Allan (OP) - Your story is the prime reason why I film myself packing everything that I mail. And I hope you have told your buyer that you will be submitting a mail fraud complaint against him if you don't receive exactly what you mailed him, in the same condition as mailed. Often the mere threat of a mail fraud action will make a buyer rethink their scams.  

If You Don't Win a Claim Against an eBay Seller, T   If You Don't Win a Claim Against an eBay Seller, T

by: pace306 This user has validated their user name.

Mon Jan 18 00:07:22 2016

Rule #1) theres NO SUCH THING as seller protection. It doesnt exist in any way shape or form.

Rule #2) see Rule #1

I had a similar case - 2 items in 1 package. I made the GRAVE ERROR of having a return policy (ie it didnt have NO RETURNS on it).

Besides the last 6 returns that I had (all buyers remorse - that had different serial numbers or items returned) this SHOULD have been a straight forward case.

The catalog section said the headphones were WIRED. The description said the headphones where WIRED. Pics of the box (front and back) show and say WIRED.

Buyer gets them then does a buyers remorse return. When I email him, he says he thought they BOTH wireless and opened and tried BOTH. I asked - if they are the same item and the first is WIRED - the second one is too - why did you open them BOTH? I got no response.

I spoke to 5 American CS agents. Each one told me that eBays own page - the one that explains ITEM RETURN CONDITIONS doesnt matter. That and "you wrote you except returns and therefore you return conditions as stated in the listing are irrelevant".

I said "if they were both returned sealed (since it only shows/says wired in 4 different places) there wouldnt be an issue, what do I do now with used open items?"

eBays disgusting answer was "its called a faulty return, and the customer is always right". It doesnt matter that they claim in their emails that they opened both "just see what it really was (wired or wireless)" eat the faulty return for $300 - its just too bad.

BTW, try this on eBay and they put you into collection. Theres no "faulty service" or anything ELSE on eBay.

No matter what I said, no matter how many times I pointed out their own rules - they were DETERMINED to make me eat the items (that are opened and "tested") (you cant "test in ear earbuds - once you put them in YOUR ears - its unsanitary to ask another person to put them in theirs).

No matter what I said or did - I had to eat those items.

I went after that and changed EVERY SINGLE item to NO RETURNS.

Like the OP - on eBay, doing the right thing - means eBay is going to screw you. Best off, have the tightest return policy you can and eat the TRSP %20 discount - it will NEVER be as much as eating these kinds of returns.

On eBay, sellers are ALWAYS guilty until proven innocent (if ever), and buyers are innocent until proven guilty (which almost never happens!).

Of course you can always "report the buyer" LMAO ... its like emptying the Atalntic with a Dixie cup (like the CEO - its worthless).

If You Don't Win a Claim Against an eBay Seller, T   If You Don't Win a Claim Against an eBay Seller, T

by: Joey4711 This user has validated their user name.

Mon Jan 18 01:14:12 2016

Pace,
The problem with no returns they can open an item not described or some other bs. Like what Allen describes above, how can he win a moneyback guarentee case and get popped in the eye anyway?

I think that at the end of the day they should change it to pay the ransom. Customer says not as described even if they opened your headphones or even ran over with the car pay the ransom.

The problem we have is we all agreed because our wonderful government to arbitration and if we could get the laws to favor class action this shit would stop.  

Because Ebay would be sued for lying about seller protection and mitigating their risk by having the sellers take the continuous losses.

You know what else is fun?  Do they take all the money they saved from what used to be some seller protection and pay to get us up in search hell no pay it to Donahoe and minions see that helps the brand better.  

If I had the cash I would hire a law firm to sue Ebay board of directors and Paypal for allowing that idiot to stay on board.  Look at the stock price compared to amazon. What ahole hired the guy to do Cassini? What ahole thought process was Cassinni?  What aholes thought process was the Westfield Mall all all have hurt the company but again lets promote the sob to a better position.  He needs a thinking day like I need to shoot up heroin.  

The directors all take care of each other welcome to business 101.  I wish you well with Ebay I myself have moved platforms screw them for 500.00 a month you can get good web traffic from Google product ads without the bs.

You also can use some of these new avenues that let you post your items everywhere.  

If You Don't Win a Claim Against an eBay Seller, T   If You Don't Win a Claim Against an eBay Seller, T

by: Joey4711 This user has validated their user name.

Mon Jan 18 01:16:28 2016

I accidently hit enter and it posted I wanted to add these opinions are my own based on my experiences.   Noise out..

If You Don't Win a Claim Against an eBay Seller, T   If You Don't Win a Claim Against an eBay Seller, T

by: Moonwishes This user has validated their user name.
Web Site

Tue Jan 19 00:43:35 2016

For the life of me I don't understand why people still sell on ebay and put themselves through this nonsense.

If You Don't Win a Claim Against an eBay Seller, T   If You Don't Win a Claim Against an eBay Seller, T

by: JLS This user has validated their user name.

Tue Jan 19 00:55:36 2016

I wish it did any good to take photos & movies of our items - it doesn't! I took an I-phone movie of my brand new item, it's new pouch, & new cleaning cloth being packaged and sealed up, showing the label with the buyer's name & address.  When she filed against me & won, I submitted my photos and video showing what I'd sent out & the filthy used, dented item she foisted back on me - plus the fact that she didn't return the pouch or the cleaning cloth.  When eBay told her she did have to return those items?  She sent back a filthy ripped pouch with the drawstrings missing, & a cleaning cloth that looked like a mechanic had used it for oil spills. Again, when I showed photos of this huge fraud to eBay, I got that same ''Well, that's the cost of doing business!''  Total joke!  Buyer was allowed to keep my new necklace, new pouch, & cloth while sending me back old damaged goods - PLUS, she got to leave me negative feedback too - while eBay did NOTHING - even though the customer service rep did admit that yes, he saw that she'd committed fraud!  Told me that they would ''watch her for any future acts of fraud!''  She of course disappeared from eBay - probably just opened up a new account under a new name!

If You Don't Win a Claim Against an eBay Seller, T   If You Don't Win a Claim Against an eBay Seller, T

by: comet This user has validated their user name.

Tue Jan 19 01:38:05 2016

I ordered a custom made set of seat covers for our motorcycle for Christmas.  They arrived and I did not have a chance to check them against the seat itself.  Since they arrived so close to the holiday this was not a big issue.  Inspect them and think---Gee;  this vinyl is pretty cheesy and what is this odd section where it should be one continuous piece but is now a long piece with a smaller piece inbetween this piece---making it look--odd.  But then again--I had not made a study of how the covers were made.  Wrapped it up and husband was THRILLED.  Pulled the seat off the bike only to discover the cover was WAY TOO SMALL; the construction was as I had thought not properly done.  

Contacted the seller via MESSAGEs;  she agreed to refund AND pay for return shipping and also rather snottily told me I MUST have non-stock seats on--um sorry no;  seats and almost every thing ELSE is stock.

Item cost $50 (she was having a sale)  and then it cost me $10 to return!  Pretty annoying to get a product that does not FIT and where the workmanship is shoddy AND where the material is sub par--and THEN be expected to eat  20% of the cost of the item in shipping!

Now the seller has gone silent.  Since I used whatever I was "offered"  to complain the first time--it seems that I might not be able to open a "CASE"  on this.  I hate to spend hours on the phone with ebay but really---to only get back 80% on a defective item--is wrong.  What would I have done with a $50 set of defective too small seat covers if I had kept them?  

It seems that there is zero protection for either buyers OR sellers on ebay these days.  

If You Don't Win a Claim Against an eBay Seller, T   If You Don't Win a Claim Against an eBay Seller, T

by: Tiffee Jasso This user has validated their user name.

Tue Jan 19 02:42:56 2016

I would not sell even a battery on Ebay. Electronics are the biggest pain in the 3$%$% that anyone can deal with. The only recourse you have is take your phone with you to the Post Office and open the package at the Post Office counter. Film all aspects and serial numbers. If it is not what you should have received, file a mail fraud complaint immediately with the Post Office. If you are forced to donate the price of the items that were stolen back to thief that used Ebay or Amazon to steal them, file with appropriate District Attorney's in whatever city is necessary. Make as much noise as possible. It might not save you today, but it could save you in the future.

If You Don't Win a Claim Against an eBay Seller, T   If You Don't Win a Claim Against an eBay Seller, T

by: Joey4711 This user has validated their user name.

Tue Jan 19 03:24:39 2016

Everyone,
If electronics are such a minefield here, Ebay needs to create a policy where they vett sellers or something like Amazon did with jewelry.  They don't have complaints like they used to about fake gold etc.

I can't believe but do believe unfortunately a customer is banned and the negative comment is allowed to go against you. See the problem is you didn't pay the ransom.  

All Ebay cares about is the following script they give employees we call (our opinion).  I don't want to see you get a defect, pay the ransom take the return, who cares if they ran over it with the car, took a dump on it and then shoved it in a box. Who cares....

It is the cost of doing business, pay the ransom, take the return and pay shipping. By the way also please provide our customers with the lowest prices and don't gouge them on shipping. Oh, I will have to start adding to each item at least five dollars when I have to pay the ransom.

If You Don't Win a Claim Against an eBay Seller, T   If You Don't Win a Claim Against an eBay Seller, T

by: pace306 This user has validated their user name.

Tue Jan 19 09:44:56 2016

Joey

I sell NEW SEALED in box electronics and GENERALLY I have no issues (percentage wise).

Since eBay started the Money Back Program and changed their attitude on how to interpret the english language, thats when issues started arrising.

Bill Clinton famously questioned what the word IS is. eBay rewrites its definition of NEW, UNOPENED, SEALED, UNUSED.

Thats why I had to go to NO RETURNS. A buyer would have to go to ALOT of trouble if at all to be able to explain how an item they got from me is SNAD.

Ive eliminiated (virtually) buyers remorse which FOR ME is where the abuse comes from.

Maybe Im lucky - but I get VERY few actualt defectives, and while I have gotten a few that werent - percentage wise and dollar wise - my losses (if any) didnt come from there.

On ANY of these platforms - sellers are there to be abused - I know - I know it FULL WELL.

Yes, Amazon is MUCH worse in some ways - but I still do more on eBay (ATM), but thats hopefully changing as I have new suppliers and have access to Amazon lost goods (the items that go missing when you send things in for FBA and then are later found). I get %80 of list and am slowly putting inventory into FBA.

Amazon (the company) at least doesnt lie when I speak to them on the phone or via email. eBay "looks at me" while Im on the phone and tells me that the words in their OWN HELP PAGES on returns "dont mean what YOU think they mean, they means what WE think they mean". Such utter lies.

As for returned Amazon goods - that are NOT what I shipped out - I just buy them on Amazon (NOT a 3P seller) and send the bad ones back to THEM. I make them eat their own junk.

Its a game - a viscous one - and Im determined NOT to let any of these people make me loose money at it.

If You Don't Win a Claim Against an eBay Seller, T   If You Don't Win a Claim Against an eBay Seller, T

by: Toy Boy This user has validated their user name.

Tue Jan 19 10:05:09 2016

NO RETURNS on eBay ? Doesn't that the buyer can keep the item AND gets the full refund because you said you do not accept to get it back?
I think that is their interpretation of no returns.

If You Don't Win a Claim Against an eBay Seller, T   If You Don't Win a Claim Against an eBay Seller, T

by: comet This user has validated their user name.

Tue Jan 19 12:11:56 2016

An "update"  to this topic and what I posted above.  I just discovered that allegedly the seller (or Paypal--who knows)  claims that RETURNING the defective seat covers was NOT required ---and that there seems to be NO WAY to actually file a CASE now.  So I am out $10 for shipping an item that was defective;  that did NOT fit the bike I ordered it FOR;  and the seller is set with an item she can re-sell.  I don't know what I would have done with the item because I could not USE it but I am deeply resentful that I--as the BUYER got screwed and only NOW get a notice that ebay/PP claims I did not need to return. Telling me this 2 WEEKS after item was returned is pointless.  The only one who benefitted here was the Post Office and ebay.  Oh and I guess the seller did too--as she has the item back!

I mostly sell on ebay but this one has me boiling as the buyer.    

If You Don't Win a Claim Against an eBay Seller, T   If You Don't Win a Claim Against an eBay Seller, T

by: comet This user has validated their user name.

Tue Jan 19 12:48:57 2016

Just contacted Paypal and got a "courtesy"  refund on this shipping. It seems that the seller was able to CANCEL the order without my input and filing a SNAD was not possible!  How can this be--is this not the cornerstone of ebay---being able to fight it out on SNAD items? (only somewhat snarky there!)

I DON'T like the "You can keep the item and get a refund"  at ALL but in this case I did NOT keep the item and had to go to Paypal to be "Made whole".  Nice American English speaking CSR also.  And I am allegedly one of their top customers!  Um---

And for the first time in years I felt the need to leave a NFB---seller was hostile;  sent the wrong product;  no offer to supply the right one;  bad materials and shoddy work.  Plus vanishing when I asked about the prior agreed to refund on shipping.  

All in all not the worlds best transaction and the new "display  of Purchase History is not overly friendly and hiding the Resolution Center contact waaaayyy down at the bottom of the screen in the wee-ist lil letters you ever did see---not user friendly.  

And what happened to our ability TO file a CASE????

If You Don't Win a Claim Against an eBay Seller, T   If You Don't Win a Claim Against an eBay Seller, T

This user has validated their user name. by: Marie

Tue Jan 19 20:54:03 2016

This is odd for a few reasons.  

First the Money Back Guarantee does NOT kick into effect until AFTER your stated return policy has lapsed.

Second, how in the world were they able to open a second claim for the same item?  Or did they just appeal the first claim?

If You Don't Win a Claim Against an eBay Seller, T   If You Don't Win a Claim Against an eBay Seller, T

by: comet This user has validated their user name.

Wed Jan 20 01:59:36 2016

@MARIE----If this is re my 'lil story here---

I never opened a Claim on the item;  I contacted the seller to let them know I was not happy but I used--Contact the Seller.  They wrote back that I must not have the "stock"  seats on the bike--which I do but I don't expect them to know that.  We suspect that this might be for a different year bike.  But in any case:::  The seller agreed at that time to issue a refund AND to re-imburse me for shipping.  The initial item had Free Shipping;  I spent $10 to RETURN the item-this was 20% of the cost of the item!  

The item had three strikes::: It was made of really thin and cheap vinyl;  it was the wrong item;  and the way it was constructed it would not have been able to be used as-is;  there was a big GAP that they filled in with a smaller piece that was not sewn on the side edges.  

I DID get a Refund but only on my cost.  I contacted the seller on the shipping part and she went silent.  When I went to look to file a CASE I found there WAS no place TO do this!  What I found via Res Center was a page telling me that there was a Refund AND that the SELLER had CANCELED the transaction --I was NEVER notified of this and of course--now the ball is in her court.  I did get a page telling me that AFTER the 18th I could "Ask for help from ebay"--but there are NO links to DO this!  

I tried to find any way to do a CASE for SNAD to no avail.  I called Paypal this AM when I saw a new version of this page come up that had PP on it.  Still NO way to actually ask ebay to "Step in".

Paypal claimed that there was no way to get the seller to re-pay the shipping but they would issue a Courtesy Refund since I was "One of their best customers"  (LOL)

I then left NFB because this person apparently has somewhat of a history of doing this---and because she did not do what she said she was going TO do.  

I am still unsure of what I could have done differently--other than open a SNAD case right away;  which I was reluctant to do in case this was a mistake.  If she had offered to replace or not been hostile--accusing me of not knowing what seats I have!!!---and I DID have several convos prior to ordering these with her and she seemed competent.  Now we have a ripped seat and must find some other way to fix or replace it.  We waited to do this until winter so we did not miss any riding time!  

I can't figure it out either.  

If You Don't Win a Claim Against an eBay Seller, T   If You Don't Win a Claim Against an eBay Seller, T

This user has validated their user name. by: Marie

Wed Jan 20 02:34:13 2016

@comet

You are correct, you should have just opened the claim to begin with.  I am sure you were reluctant because you know what it is like to be a seller and how harsh the Ebay rules can be.  

But remember, claims now will not count against a seller if they are resolved.  It only counts against them if it goes unresolved.  

So for future reference, I'd still contact a seller before filing a claim, but if I'm going to return it, get that claim opened for your protection.

As for this current problem.  I can only suggest you call Ebay.  I know that is never a fun thing, but I don't know that there is anything else you can do.

What kind of FB did you leave this seller?

If You Don't Win a Claim Against an eBay Seller, T   If You Don't Win a Claim Against an eBay Seller, T

by: moto-science This user has validated their user name.
Web Site

Wed Jan 20 12:21:16 2016

Sellers have no real future on Ebay.

Sell accordingly, only the cheaper items, while suggesting they google your web site for the full catalog.

If You Don't Win a Claim Against an eBay Seller, T   If You Don't Win a Claim Against an eBay Seller, T

This user has validated their user name. by: iheartjacksparrow

Wed Jan 20 13:01:42 2016

@Marie - Comet stated she left a Negative because the seller had a history of doing the same thing.

If You Don't Win a Claim Against an eBay Seller, T   If You Don't Win a Claim Against an eBay Seller, T

This user has validated their user name. by: Marie

Wed Jan 20 13:47:40 2016

Thanks Jack, I overlooked that.

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