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Tue Sept 15 2015 22:58:22

PayPal Can Keep Investigation Open for a Year After Purchase

By: Reader

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Dear Ina,
It's been 188 days since sale (over half a year), yet a buyer has managed to open a case for "item not received or not as described". 

They had used the item for action sports, and damaged it physically due to impact (we know because the buyer sent us photos).

The case was closed straight away, but this sentence in PayPal's notification email concerns me (and a lot of other sellers):

"We reserve the right for the next 180 days to begin an investigation"

That means an investigation could be opened anywhere up to 368 days (1 year and 3 days) after the sale date! 

This is ridiculous. We can't get postage records more than 3 months out to disprove "not received", and as for "not as described", any kind of event (such as loss or damage) could have happened to the item in the meantime while in the buyer's hands.

This kind of over-reach by PayPal is a powerful reason to switch to a different payment company.
From a Reader




Comments (16) | Permalink

Readers Comments

PayPal Can Keep Investigation Open for a Year Afte   PayPal Can Keep Investigation Open for a Year Afte

This user has validated their user name. by: iheartjacksparrow

Tue Sep 15 23:27:45 2015

@A Reader (OP) - You need to post the ID of your buyer so all the sellers can add that person to their BBL.

And if you sell on eBay, you know that you're basically stuck with PayPal, but your story makes an excellent case for finding another marketplace to sell from.

PayPal Can Keep Investigation Open for a Year Afte   PayPal Can Keep Investigation Open for a Year Afte

This user has validated their user name. by: Rexford

Wed Sep 16 06:30:34 2015

Do the large enterprise sellers have a different agreement with PayPal than what small sellers have?  I'm curious as to why a large enterprise seller would be onboard with a 180 day return policy.

PayPal Can Keep Investigation Open for a Year Afte   PayPal Can Keep Investigation Open for a Year Afte

This user has validated their user name. by: Ric

Wed Sep 16 09:40:51 2015

Let's keep in mind that after the split, the 'Bain Drain' John Donahoe remain3ed on the Board of the stand alone PayPal.

Donahoe has a fetish for manipulation, overreaching insidious policies, and generally has an anti seller bent. As long as he has any influe4nce over PayPal, policies will alienate more and more sellers from accepting PayPal as a payment method.

PayPal Can Keep Investigation Open for a Year Afte   PayPal Can Keep Investigation Open for a Year Afte

by: pace306 This user has validated their user name.

Wed Sep 16 13:59:37 2015

Like with returns and really - everything else on eBay/Paypal - they have created a zero loss tolerance policy ... FOR THEMSELVES ONLY.

With sales slipping, with Paypal begging Macys to be part of the checkout process (eBay and Macys are old buddies) ... eBay and Paypal have instituted a ZERO loss policy.

ANYONE but them can eat a loss - they cant afford the NEXT $23 million dollar payout (and dont think for ONE MOMENT that Wenig isnt eyeing it in 3-4 yrs already).

Since buyers will leave if eBay and Paypal make THEM eat losses (even when they cause them), and they cant get the cc companies to eat the losses - best off doing what eBay and Paypal do best - STEAL from sellers.

See Paypals ENTIRE BUSINESS model is shorting (betting against) its own sellers (users). Every time a claim is payed out to a seller - they have to eat that loss.

Thats why eBay and Paypal are still "together". Thats why eBay STILL directs Paypal to take money from sellers (under the "innocent guise" of a simple agreement). eBay says jump and Paypal says how high.

How can you expect fairness when the 2 people opposing you are colluding together?

You cant.

Paypal will do its damnest to keep that claim alive until they find someone at fault for the issue - chances are %99.9 it will be the OP (seller).

Miracles DO happen though, and Paypal *MAY* choose to eat the loss .... but those chances are slim to none.

PayPal Can Keep Investigation Open for a Year Afte   PayPal Can Keep Investigation Open for a Year Afte

by: spirit-of-shiloh This user has validated their user name.

Thu Sep 17 01:11:14 2015

A HUGE reason I stopped selling on eBay after 10 years and a perfect record. No way is PP going to DICTATE to me when I will make a return to a fraudster.

PayPal Can Keep Investigation Open for a Year Afte   PayPal Can Keep Investigation Open for a Year Afte

by: Tiffee Jasso This user has validated their user name.

Thu Sep 17 01:15:30 2015

Use Chrome and save to print as PDF files to save the pages of the item, sale and postal delivery. You then you have proof of what you sold and what transpired. Yes, it is time consuming, but it is  the only way to combat Paypal's new heavy handed Donahoe policies until you can replace them with a better option, like Apple or Stripe.  

PayPal Can Keep Investigation Open for a Year Afte   PayPal Can Keep Investigation Open for a Year Afte

by: Steevo This user has validated their user name.

Thu Sep 17 01:32:20 2015

Just stop taking Paypal. This is outrageous.  Get a merchant acct through Stripe or Propay.

If anyone is using Propay I'd be interested in your opinion of the company and their functionality.

PayPal Can Keep Investigation Open for a Year Afte   PayPal Can Keep Investigation Open for a Year Afte

This user has validated their user name. by: Rexford

Thu Sep 17 07:08:24 2015

Macys is closing 40 stores. I just happened to be in a Macys store a few weeks ago (just a walk thru) and no wonder they have to close stores. Their prices were over the moon. Now granted I was in one of their locations that was in a tony area of town, but I was floored by their pricing.

I guess someone from PayPay convinced them how they can further monetize, but they should think twice before getting into bed with the devil.

PayPal Can Keep Investigation Open for a Year Afte   PayPal Can Keep Investigation Open for a Year Afte

by: Volvo351 This user has validated their user name.

Thu Sep 17 07:54:31 2015

@pace306

Not sure what you mean by "..getting buyers to eat losses..."

As a seller, I don't expect a buyer to face a "loss" but I don't expect bogus SNAD's, either! When someone buys a 25/30 year old used BOAT part and whines that it's "faded" [and believe me, it couldn't have been bad!] from SUN EXPOSURE, well, Dude, WTF! Another guy creates a DEFECT for me by requesting a RETURN when he fails to properly ADJUST CABLES on same model control. I have NO CONTROL over installation procedure, and I certainly have no control over buyer expecting a like-new part, cosmetically, when he's paying 30% of new retail!

PayPal Can Keep Investigation Open for a Year Afte   PayPal Can Keep Investigation Open for a Year Afte

by: wellspring This user has validated their user name.

Thu Sep 17 09:31:05 2015

I just want to comment on the ''can't get postage records more than 3 months old.'' This is exactly why I use stamps.com. My records are still there from 3+ years ago and I can email them as proof of delivery.

I had a customer that bought something from me a year ago (in person purchase but had to be made) who claimed we never mailed the item. My proof from stamps.com saved the day. But who waits a year to say item not received? Someone who wants another for free or their money back!  

PayPal Can Keep Investigation Open for a Year Afte   PayPal Can Keep Investigation Open for a Year Afte

by: pace306 This user has validated their user name.

Thu Sep 17 10:16:56 2015

Volvo :)

It would seem to me that those customers who complain - and cause false SNADs (like your case) - those people are already looking for money back - or a free item, they arent looking for a solution.

Ive had times where I couldnt solve a defective issue that cropped up on day 45, but I got the manufactorer to handle it and the customer was just simply happy that the issue got taken care of.

But THOSE kind are rare. Those making these types of complaints - the ones that look to find something wrong or turn eBays money back policy into a warranty have a refund or more in their mind from the onset.

So, who will take the loss if the customer cant be reasoned with or the issue easily solved?

From eBay and Paypals view, there is ONLY ONE person responsible - the seller. Telling customers that they are wrong about their claim - even when they TRULY are is bad for business.

That BTW is how Amazon operates - the customer is NEVER wrong. eBay caught that Amazon disease and now its spread to all parts of ecommerce.

If a buyer is angry they wont come back. That equals loss of money, so its better to push it back on the seller. eBay and Paypal (not to mention Amazon) wont eat the items or refund the monies, therefore its GOT to be the seller.

I do expect (and maybe I was wrong / am wrong that eBay is/was different) that customers "own" the issues, if their claim is false/fale/wrong.

I sell NEW sealed in box items. Unless its DOA and/or you received a different item (shipping mix up) - "Im done".

Im not the manufactorer, I dont do warranty work, I dont provide warranties, I dont "stand behind the item for the lifetime of the item" - none of that.

You buy it at a discount, you get it shipped "for free" and its new in box as described.

eBay has changed that though. I got a return last week because of item incompatibility .... since when do I make either item (item that was bought or the one they had that was being connected to it).

If they change their mind and the item is new as shipped - they should pay the %20 restocking fee PLUS the return shipping. Calling it a SNAD is unfair - and worse a lie.

Stupid me - I assume(d) that eBay "had my back" since its all black & white .... but not so.

Paypal keeps the investigation open fro long periods of time, trying to find a way to pin it on the seller, not because they need the time to "investigate" anything.


best regards!

PayPal Can Keep Investigation Open for a Year Afte   PayPal Can Keep Investigation Open for a Year Afte

by: songe-d-automne This user has validated their user name.

Thu Sep 17 10:44:23 2015

They really need to keep records on buyers to weed out the ones you cannot please, and who abuse the "return" policy.

3 strikes within a certain time frame and you get warned and them your buyer account comes under review.

If you've got no proof to back up your repeated claims of unhappiness...your ass gets booted. Seems fair to me.

They hold sellers to even higher standards than that. They don't even need or want proof to ban your ass...just a handful of "opinions"

PayPal Can Keep Investigation Open for a Year Afte   PayPal Can Keep Investigation Open for a Year Afte

This user has validated their user name. by: iheartjacksparrow

Thu Sep 17 12:46:23 2015

This is why I'm so glad I stopped accepting PayPal in my eCrater store. Last month I had a buyer claim that an item she purchased last December never arrived (even though she left me positive feedback for the transaction). I have no doubt that if she had paid with PayPal she would have opened an INR claim since the tracking information was no longer available on the USPS site.

PayPal Can Keep Investigation Open for a Year Afte   PayPal Can Keep Investigation Open for a Year Afte

by: comet This user has validated their user name.

Thu Sep 17 12:57:58 2015

@songe-de-automne---EXACTLY.  These problem buyers ARE the problem-not the so-called "Bad sellers"  on ebay.

Of course there ARE some bad sellers---and there are a lot of Chinese sellers with fake goods who seemingly are "golden" but the MAJORITY of bad problems are caused by these "Liar Buyers"  who want everything and it's brother for FREE and they want it---yesterday.  

I was on ETSY yesterday and was looking at som FB left for sellers--what a huge difference!  Now I don't sell there so I don't know the ins and outs but seemed  a calmer place than ebay for sure.  But again--their CEO sold THEM out too so who knows.  

Sad to think your entire selling career can come crashing down with ONE whack jobs "opinion"  of you and or ONE Liar Buyer coming back 6 MONTHS or more later to demand their money back.  Shows how petty The Ho and Co really are.  HE acts as if these "claims" are coming DIRECTLY out of HIS pocket.

Ichan did not go NEARLY far enough in getting these evil Siamese Twins seperated.  

PayPal Can Keep Investigation Open for a Year Afte   PayPal Can Keep Investigation Open for a Year Afte

by: Volvo351 This user has validated their user name.

Fri Sep 18 09:16:11 2015

@pace306

In the case of the "sun faded" item, PayPig sided in MY favor which was an overdue relief. It took over a week for a "resolution specialist" to rule on this. In the meantime, my funds were withheld. BTW, that scammer BYPASSED feeBay's SNAD process, and went whining directly to PayPig. I half-expected a CHARGEBACK to be the next step, with PayPig telling me "Sorry, it's the credit card co's fault - nuthin' we can do about it!"

As for the defect from the defective mechanic, this is exactly how The Hoe planned it...funnel Q's from buyers through the "request refund" web page to generate defects that cost sellers discounts, TRS, etc.

PayPal Can Keep Investigation Open for a Year Afte   PayPal Can Keep Investigation Open for a Year Afte

by: Volvo351 This user has validated their user name.

Fri Sep 18 09:17:29 2015

@wellspring

OK, you can prove that you bought POSTAGE but that doesn't offer proof/confirmation of actual delivery, right? Or, is the tracking info linked?



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