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Fri Aug 21 2015 17:47:39

PayPal Sides with Overreaching eBay Buyer

By: Reader

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Dear Ina,
We recently sold some dishes on eBay. More than a month after the sale we found out that the buyer (who had received the item according to the tracking info.) had made a chargeback or cancelled the sale through PayPal. PayPal of course froze the money, pending investigation. 

We supplied the evidence we had and explained that she hadn't followed the eBay procedure (we would gladly have accepted a return).

Never heard a thing from her. She had never tried to contact us about any issues. PayPal found in her favor and we lost all the money involved in the sale. PayPal would not explain why they found in her favor! 
Donna




Comments (24) | Permalink

Readers Comments

PayPal Sides with Overreaching eBay Buyer   PayPal Sides with Overreaching eBay Buyer

This user has validated their user name. by: Rexford

Fri Aug 21 19:50:10 2015

Donna, I would be raising almight he** with PayPal reguarding this.  I'd contact as many news outlets as I could hoping to get some exposure for your story, because eBay and PayPal really hate that (which is why I love Ina and David so much).

I really do hope that in a few short years that John Donahoe takes on the decrepit look of Mr. Burns on The Simpsons.

PayPal Sides with Overreaching eBay Buyer   PayPal Sides with Overreaching eBay Buyer

This user has validated their user name. by: WOODJUNGLE! ON EBAY
Web Site

Fri Aug 21 20:24:14 2015

Something is being left out here. What reason did they site for the chargeback? They give one.  If it is unauthorized purchase, as long as it is delivered to the AUTHORIZED parties address, and you can prove it with tracking, you're off the hook.   If they find against you, they always say why as well. What is missing here?

PayPal Sides with Overreaching eBay Buyer   PayPal Sides with Overreaching eBay Buyer

by: sasikat9 This user has validated their user name.

Fri Aug 21 22:24:24 2015

I smell a rat in the form of not enough information being voiced here.   There is a long trail of missing facts.

PayPal Sides with Overreaching eBay Buyer   PayPal Sides with Overreaching eBay Buyer

This user has validated their user name. by: Rexford

Sat Aug 22 08:32:48 2015

The fact that the buyer never contacted the OP about a problem is enough for me.

The rat I smell is that it appears that the buyer never got the seller or eBay involved at all--buyer went straight to PayPal.  As a seller I would have an issue if a buyer did that.

PayPal Sides with Overreaching eBay Buyer   PayPal Sides with Overreaching eBay Buyer

This user has validated their user name. by: WOODJUNGLE! ON EBAY
Web Site

Sat Aug 22 11:47:19 2015

We don't know what the buyer did. There are alot of things not being told here. Paypal doesn't just credit a buyer without a reason. This is not a complete account.

PayPal Sides with Overreaching eBay Buyer   PayPal Sides with Overreaching eBay Buyer

by: Jane Dough This user has validated their user name.

Sat Aug 22 22:41:19 2015

Oh for God's sake Ebay Sucks (but you sell there anyway)-this happens all the time!

PayPal Sides with Overreaching eBay Buyer   PayPal Sides with Overreaching eBay Buyer

by: Steevo This user has validated their user name.

Sat Aug 22 23:37:12 2015

I wonder if this might have turned out differently if you had stopped using Paypal when they were ''spun off'' from Ebay?

I find that they seem to want to be judge, jury and executioner and judge Ebay sales that they have no actual knowledge off is bizarre.  

When they were owned by Ebay, they were forced to do what Ebay said. Since they are now ''separate'' if you just use a merchant account and avoid them completely you avoid all that.

Your credit card processor is not going to have access to the information in the ebay system.  So they will just look at the proof of delivery that you provide. It might go pretty far.

I realize a lot of people have not had trouble with Paypal. Heck, I have not had trouble with Paypal.

But it seems they are embroiled in the online sales to a great extent. Keeping things separate might be better over all.

Even chargebacks from a credit card might be handles more even handedly if your bank really only gets information from you.  

PayPal Sides with Overreaching eBay Buyer   PayPal Sides with Overreaching eBay Buyer

by: Volvo351 This user has validated their user name.

Sun Aug 23 19:34:15 2015

Absolutely no surprise that PayPig stole the seller's money. And, the shame is that the Two-Headed Monster [feeBay and PayPig] are "separate" in name only. They still have a "joint operating agreement" [aka illegal Restraint of Trade] so every eBay seller is a Mark for The Hoe for another half a decade.  

PayPal Sides with Overreaching eBay Buyer   PayPal Sides with Overreaching eBay Buyer

by: Volvo351 This user has validated their user name.

Sun Aug 23 19:36:51 2015

@Steevo

As mentioned in my last post the Two-Headed Monster still has two heads. Small sellers are still virtually required to take PayPig. An apt moniker for this "bank that's not a bank" as it has an insatiable appetite for YOUR money.

PayPal Sides with Overreaching eBay Buyer   PayPal Sides with Overreaching eBay Buyer

by: Volvo351 This user has validated their user name.

Sun Aug 23 19:40:25 2015

@Rexford

Read the new feeBay/PayPig policies. Buyer is now allowed to leap-frog feeBay "dispute resolution process" - as lame as that is - and go directly to PayPig. This happened to me not long ago. I complained to feeBay and they said it was OK.

The utter MIRACLE of that case was that PayPig denied the scammer my money. Seems someone at PayPig had a brain and concluded that a USED BOAT PART would be expected to have some "sun fading."  I mean, who would'a thunk it?

PayPal Sides with Overreaching eBay Buyer   PayPal Sides with Overreaching eBay Buyer

This user has validated their user name. by: miketx7

Mon Aug 24 01:08:15 2015

I'm pretty sure the trick to this and similar lost cases at PayPal, is simply to appeal any negative verdict.  With this, you have a local notary notarize your statement to the fact you swear: "item was authentic not fake" or "item didn't have scratches when mailed to buyer", or "item was new sealed in package not used", etc., etc.  
All you have to do is ASK.  Ask in the right way, like "what specific avenues are available to pursue issue...can I appeal the decision, contest it, file a claim myself, or perhaps have an attorney act on my behalf and contact a specific department or person within PayPal?"...."it's a matter of principle at this point, not money (wink), and I'm not prepared to let this go as it stands".
I sold watch where buyer claimed not as described because watch face was too small for his liking despite having the specific dimensions of the watch face listed in no fewer than 3 areas of the listing.  He returned with several scratches on clasp.  Which by the way, PayPal does not accept pictures as evidence for the most part...irrelevant no matter what because photo's can be manipulated so easily now a days....so pictures mean almost nothing except to back up other known facts, at best. (Wish would have known that before spending an hour trying to photo watch clasp in just the right light at just the right angle to make the scratches look big and ugly).
Anyhow, PayPal ruled in buyer favor despite my rock strong case evidence.  I called and said "what the hell?  They said appeal, and sent me email instructions.  I did the notary thing and sent in.  They offered $104 back to me on the $134 deal.  Since the clasp was only minimally scratched and watch was easy to sell again for $130 or so, I should have accepted. But I made my case again that it was going to cost me $117 to ready watch for sale again and wallah, they said ok to the $117, so appeal was won and closed.  About 2 years ago this was.

PayPal Sides with Overreaching eBay Buyer   PayPal Sides with Overreaching eBay Buyer

by: comet This user has validated their user name.

Mon Aug 24 01:08:30 2015

The OP should CALL Paypal BACK--as many times as it takes--as (same as ebay)  they often give you different answers and some will and some will not HELP you.  Asking for Supervisors--and recording EVERYONE you speak to as far as NAMES and TITLES etc goes--and make sure they KNOW you are documenting---has been of help to me getting them to LISTEN and see things my way.  

I have found PP easier to deal with than ebay but have no--knock on wood!!!--had to deal with them recently.  Things may have changed.  

Also--something to think about--Paypal is publicity averse and making clear that you are taking names FOR handing off to a series of news venues might help.  

I would also demand something in WRITING--NOT an email--as to WHY they are denying you;  and make sure you skirt around directly using the word "Lawyer"  but perhaps imply this.  (some places have a rule that if YOU mention the word then they MUST terminate the call!)  

This is a real shame that both companies seem unable to deal honestly with THEIR customers--and leave us at the mercy of the criminal class THEY have fostered!  

PayPal Sides with Overreaching eBay Buyer   PayPal Sides with Overreaching eBay Buyer

by: Go tell the Spartans This user has validated their user name.

Mon Aug 24 01:16:31 2015

There's far more to this story than what is seen here. While I'm always leery of both eBay and PayPal, PayPal has always been fair to us on and off eBay. We have our own online store and make PayPal available and thus far there have been no problems that weren't resolved. Over the years we have had a few buyers attempt a chargeback, but they didn't exceed since our ducks were in a row. MasterCard though is a fraud everyone should be aware of. We shipped a package to a customer and had proof of delivery. The buyer maintained that he didn't receive it - we lost. We are considering a small claims action just to bust chops.

PayPal Sides with Overreaching eBay Buyer   PayPal Sides with Overreaching eBay Buyer

by: kazaly This user has validated their user name.

Mon Aug 24 02:31:27 2015

I had a similar case (a while back admittedly) but had PayPal cover the refund under their own buyer protection policy.
My item was lost in transit.
If you can show tracked delivery to the eBay registered users zip you should be covered.
Has there been some change I am unaware of?

PayPal Sides with Overreaching eBay Buyer   PayPal Sides with Overreaching eBay Buyer

by: kazaly This user has validated their user name.

Mon Aug 24 02:32:29 2015

edit:
Seller Protection ... doh!

PayPal Sides with Overreaching eBay Buyer   PayPal Sides with Overreaching eBay Buyer

by: Tiffee Jasso This user has validated their user name.

Mon Aug 24 03:29:57 2015

In order to win at Paypal, it is not good enough to tell Paypal you have paperwork. You have to upload a copy of each part of the transaction showing Ebay's invoice, the Paypal, the shipping label and the tracking showing delivery to show you did your job. That put's it back on the buyer to show that it is not their name, address, or Ebay account. In that case you should fall under Paypal's seller's protection as they are the ones that took the card and original information, not you.

Since you have already lost the case, you need to file fraud & theft complaint with Postal Authorities against  Buyer. You also need to file theft charges against buyer for credit card fraud with the local District Attorney in their city. Probably won't get you your money back, but it will get attention and maybe even prosecution if the buyer has made a habit of this. And if your are lucky a nasty letter from D.A. will get sent out to buyer which ought to make their day.  

PayPal Sides with Overreaching eBay Buyer   PayPal Sides with Overreaching eBay Buyer

by: AnneMarie This user has validated their user name.

Mon Aug 24 07:05:28 2015

This doesn't sound right to me. The OP should call PayPal as many times as it takes to get an answer. I recently had a buyer file a ''not received'' dispute while an item was still in transit, as evidenced by tracking (which she had access to). While PayPal found in the buyer's favor because she refused the delivery, the two reps I spoke with explained in detail what the process was in this situation and the reason for their decision. They also both ''got it'' that the buyer had likely intended to ''rent'' my item for a special event (planning to return it all along), and refused it because the USPS didn't deliver on time. They seemed very savvy about ''bad buyers.'' The buyer received a total refund, but PayPal refunded my shipping cost back to me because of the circumstances.

If  you get someone at PP on the phone who knows what he or she is doing, I've always found that they're easy to deal with. Much easier than eBay, and I think the split from eBay is nothing but good.  

PayPal Sides with Overreaching eBay Buyer   PayPal Sides with Overreaching eBay Buyer

by: beverly This user has validated their user name.

Mon Aug 24 09:09:35 2015

I always go straight to paypal when I have a problem with a purchase. sellers should like this because it does not show up as a dispute on your ebay account.

There was never a requirement that a buyer had to go through ebay for a refund.I use paypal because I can speak to an American in this country.

I always have to return the item before I get may refund and prove that it was received by the seller.

something is fishy here

PayPal Sides with Overreaching eBay Buyer   PayPal Sides with Overreaching eBay Buyer

by: a_c_green This user has validated their user name.

Mon Aug 24 11:29:24 2015

I don't know what we're supposed to do with these short anecdotal horror stories. If the Original Poster can't be more forthcoming with details or answers to followup questions, or stick around to have an actual dialogue here, we can only guess at what the sequence of events was, and cannot offer any detailed suggestions on how the OP might resolve their specific case.

PayPal Sides with Overreaching eBay Buyer   PayPal Sides with Overreaching eBay Buyer

This user has validated their user name. by: Rexford

Mon Aug 24 13:40:58 2015

beverly says "I always go straight to paypal when I have a problem with a purchase. sellers should like this because it does not show up as a dispute on your ebay account."

Based on reading many of your posts here on ecommercebytes, this does not surprise me at all.

And why on earth would a seller like this? A buyer defrauds a seller but a seller is supposed to be happy about it because they don't get a defect?

I can not even wrap my head around why a buyer would not contact the seller when there is an issue with the purchase.

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