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Mon July 6 2015 16:15:36

Describing a Flaw Did Not Protect This eBay Seller

By: Reader

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Dear Ina,
I have been a member of eBay since 1998 and have been selling since 2000. I have heard the recent horror stories of how eBay has been treating sellers the past few years and I personally, have not had any major issues until now.

I had listed an item that did have flaws, fully disclosed the flaws on the listing and had very accurate pictures of the item clearly showing the flaws. Item gets purchased and not immediately paid for, filed a non-paying buyer case and after 3 days the buyer finally paid (1st indication of trouble).

I ship the item the next morning, tracking shows buyer received the item 2 days later, so far so good.

Three days after buyer receives item he leaves negative feedback saying the item was flawed. I asked which flaws and he stated back to me the exact same flaw that was disclosed in the listing (three times I might add). 

So he then proceeds to file an Item is not as described case. Fine, I wait the three days to have eBay get involved, meanwhile he also files a case via PayPal. Ok, so it gets ridiculous but not unmanageable. I write back on both cases pointing out that yes, there were flaws which were disclosed several times on the listing, I also had NO RETURNS on the listing (like that makes a difference, eh?- )

"Returns: Seller does not offer returns. You are covered by the eBay Money Back Guarantee if you received an item that is not as described in the listing."

Well, as I found out, it doesn't matter IF it was as described or not. They should take that right off the selling options at this point.

Needless to say, I lost the eBay case with no further explanation, I guess none is needed...it no longer matters, if the buyer wants out of the sale they get OUT of the sale, at MY cost for return shipping!

I am pretty done with eBay until they actually honor some type of seller protection. I use to have a Premium Store listing 800 items per month on average. Now back to basic, 190 items a month on average. That will be greatly reduced as the existing items sell off. 

I've dabbled with Amazon (doing well) and Bonanza (doing fair). After the news of eCrater listings showing higher in Google search I will be going back to them for a bit as well.

Sorry for the long note but I HAD to vent!
Regards,
Alan




Comments (58) | Permalink

Readers Comments

Describing a Flaw Did Not Protect This eBay Seller   Describing a Flaw Did Not Protect This eBay Seller

by: Massachusets Howler This user has validated their user name.

Mon Jul 6 16:37:44 2015

Another lazy buyer who didn't bother to read the sellers description.
I have experienced the same. Now I don't do many flawed items and I put FLAW at the end of the title, which has helped SOME.
Try to call ebay, I know it is a major PAIN but keep calling until you find a sympathetic "csr".
This will take HOURS, and it shouldn't.

Pure BS
Creeps.
(This is what happens when ebay "experiments" with hiding descriptions- sellers pay).
MH

Describing a Flaw Did Not Protect This eBay Seller   Describing a Flaw Did Not Protect This eBay Seller

by: pace306 This user has validated their user name.

Mon Jul 6 17:14:10 2015

OP - I'm sorry that you had to deal with this issue - unfortunately what you experienced is the NEW eBay.

This eBay was created in September of 2014. eBay basically totaly absolved themselves of any wrong doing - each and every time and in every situation.

eBay created the MBG program to 1) keep "their" buyers happy and comming back. This means that a buyer can do ANYTHING rob, steal, lie, cheat and it doesnt matter.

eBay is SO HARD UP for buyers (note the idiot Griff BEGGING people to help make eBay into Amazon, and the continual month after month drop of Marketplace sales) that they allow them carte blanche when making a purchase.

The ONLY thing that counts is a buyer being happy, which is why they can write and say ANYTHING in the SNAD box for a return and eBay will believe them and grant it.

Sellers = devils, Buyers = saints.

I received a letter from eBays head attorney. He described how eBay granted itself this power (to assign losses to sellers) since sellers should assume they will "get some" ie "part of doing business", and therefore eBay has the right via its TOS to give you as many as they feel they want to .

2) note that eBay makes money on the return label as does Paypal.

STEALING from sellers (since theres a profit motive to granting these returns, eBay will never say NO) is eBays business plan.

eBay hires and continues to hire MORONS (come sue WENIG) and people who have NO experience in the jobs they do.   Would you let your gardener do your daughters kidney transplant?? I think not.

The flaw or flaws is not relevant to eBay. The buyer was UNhappy with the transaction and therefore it has to be SOMEONES fault.

Its NEVER eBays fault. Whether its gaming Google, lying to its seller base, comitting VERO fraud, listing fraud, getting unjust enrighment from every policy, consipring with Paypal - NONE of these in eBays eyes are a BAD thing.

Buyers are golden angels. eBAy needs them, lest they flee to Amazon. Once they go to Amazon, chances are they will never return, so eBay does ANYTHING to keep them "on eBay" even if it means stealing money from YOU.

You the seller are the scum of humanity. You lie, cheat and steal from the poor snowflake buyers. Heaven forbid that you give THEM a negative - it would break their little hearts.

While buyers are the wind beneith eBays wings, Sellers are the excrement that eBays execs step in on the way to their posh offices.

You can do anything you want to a seller as long as its in the TOS. By logging into eBay YOU agree to it. ALready there is the "power" to charge you for listings and then never show them, already there is a punishment for using HTML in your listing and/or putting contact info it in (for questions etc) but the "power" for eBay is there for them to put multiple ads in your listing to send a buyer off to one of their partners.

There are MANY evil things eBay does 24/7 (eBay come sue me - I dare you - plus you can explain to the NY State Attorney General about case # 2015-1226519. Explain how you told the court in 2007 that you are "just a venue" PLEASE) (oh in case you forgot its in 13 (Tiffany, 576 F.Supp. 2d at 475.)

OP hopefully you got back the item as you sent it so you can resell it someone else. Yes you took a small loss, but eBay took a bigger loss - they lost your respect and your want to be a seller on their platform.

best of luck!

Describing a Flaw Did Not Protect This eBay Seller   Describing a Flaw Did Not Protect This eBay Seller

This user has validated their user name. by: Ric

Mon Jul 6 17:27:09 2015

OP... with eBay intermittently hiding descriptions in listings, it is highly probable that the buyer did not see your flaws defined in your description leading to their dissatisfaction and your subsequent issues.

Worse, there is no way to confirm that the buyer was unable to see the listing description since even eBay is unable to determine if they did or did not.

By intentionally hiding listing descriptions and important information buyers need to know before making a purchase, eBay is intentionally destabilizing their own marketplace.

eBay management is entirely to blame for this kind of problem as descriptions would not be hidden were it not for their misguided site interferences.

As with everything else at eBay, management screws the pooch, and forces sellers to assume all the responsibility for their gross incompetence.

Describing a Flaw Did Not Protect This eBay Seller   Describing a Flaw Did Not Protect This eBay Seller

This user has validated their user name. by: Philip Cohen
Web Site

Mon Jul 6 19:25:15 2015

OP, Please don't feel that you are singled out; eBay is an equal opportunity fraudster; they will actively facilitate and/or practice such fraud on both sellers and buyers—as long as they think there is value in such fraud for them ...

The eBay executive suite—where the incompetent mingle with the disingenuous, the malevolent and the outright criminal, and the just plain stupid … http://bit.ly/11F2eas  

Describing a Flaw Did Not Protect This eBay Seller   Describing a Flaw Did Not Protect This eBay Seller

This user has validated their user name. by: Philip Cohen
Web Site

Mon Jul 6 19:30:47 2015

Actually, I suspect that this case has nothing to do with "flaws", disclosed or otherwise; the buyer appears to have changed their mind, and that's good enough for eBay, where the only legally binding contract that has any effect is the contract between eBay and its dupes: both its sellers and buyers …

The eBay executive suite—where the incompetent mingle with the disingenuous, the malevolent and the outright criminal, and the just plain stupid … http://bit.ly/11F2eas  

Describing a Flaw Did Not Protect This eBay Seller   Describing a Flaw Did Not Protect This eBay Seller

by: Massachusets Howler This user has validated their user name.

Mon Jul 6 22:35:57 2015

No protection from hidden description- NEED WE SAY MORE???????
MH

Describing a Flaw Did Not Protect This eBay Seller   Describing a Flaw Did Not Protect This eBay Seller

by: Jakemart This user has validated their user name.

Tue Jul 7 00:28:26 2015

This has happened to me a few times also.  At least ebay is not discriminating.  The double whammy is I called ebay about.  They opened a case without telling me to review it.  I then lost the case so I get a defect, return charge, and a case without seller resolution.  I am afraid to ever call them again.

Describing a Flaw Did Not Protect This eBay Seller   Describing a Flaw Did Not Protect This eBay Seller

by: rachel This user has validated their user name.

Tue Jul 7 00:40:19 2015

just block everyone who returns with a vengeance, meaning filing not as described claims instead of dealing directly with the Business..meaning you, the seller. Remember it's venue..you are the business. they have their rules but encourage them to talk to you to make it fast and easy refund. FaCE it no way out of refund with credit Card, Paypal, Google or Amazon. At least if they go directly to you then it is not a cardinal sin only a return.

Describing a Flaw Did Not Protect This eBay Seller   Describing a Flaw Did Not Protect This eBay Seller

This user has validated their user name. by: LasVagueness

Tue Jul 7 00:45:18 2015

Ric has a very good point. It's also true that many buyers don't READ. So yes, sellers have to mentally and financially subsidize the intellectually deficient.

Describing a Flaw Did Not Protect This eBay Seller   Describing a Flaw Did Not Protect This eBay Seller

by: comet This user has validated their user name.

Tue Jul 7 01:03:19 2015

I have had almost the SAME thing happen==-in act just this WEEK I got a NEG for selling a--USED item that had been--USED;  which the buyer objected to.  I was also vilified for allegedly being New to ebay--after making a point of mentioning in my LISTING that I have been on there since Moby was a Minnow--

Yeah  OP---This is sadly not that uncommon =--not that this doesn't make it LESS ANNOYING.  

Maybe we--WE here right NOW--should ALL commit to go list lets say--20 things on eCrater.  Bonanza--well--I have yet to see any action there and altho I hate the name The Moon might just give the Ranch a run  for it's money.  

Describing a Flaw Did Not Protect This eBay Seller   Describing a Flaw Did Not Protect This eBay Seller

This user has validated their user name. by: toolguy

Tue Jul 7 01:11:24 2015

@Philip

"the buyer appears to have changed their mind"

Philip, if you buy something at Walmart and decide you really didn't want it (changed your mind) would Walmart deny your return?

If the buyer isn't happy how can the seller be happy?

I've never refused a return in 15 years of doing eBay! (now days a seller can't)

Describing a Flaw Did Not Protect This eBay Seller   Describing a Flaw Did Not Protect This eBay Seller

by: dem This user has validated their user name.

Tue Jul 7 01:14:49 2015

Gads, eBay is depressing. I haven't had any problems (one defect because the USPS took 38 days to deliver my item), but other than that, I haven't been ripped off by buyers and I seem to pretty much fly under eBay's radar. But my store is empty right now while I decide if I will ever re-open it. I lost my TRS because of my store being empty for so long (income too low to maintain TRS). I'm prepping hundreds of listings for Etsy and I don't do well on Bonz at all. Have been considering eCrater (but aren't they owned by eBay?). I do NOT want to go back to eBay, but I have a couple of thousand USD in inventory. Right now I wish I had never started selling online.... (wah, wah, wah - sheesh).

Describing a Flaw Did Not Protect This eBay Seller   Describing a Flaw Did Not Protect This eBay Seller

by: toyspast This user has validated their user name.

Tue Jul 7 01:24:54 2015

A couple of comments. There's no such thing as a No Return Policy on eBay. It's actually counter-intuitive to choose that option. If there is a problem, eBay usually will side with the buyer and a lot of times won't even have them send it back because you have a ''No Returns'' policy. Second, if I have an item with flaws, I put it in the condition field and also in the description. Once the item is purchased, I also email the buyer and ASK them to confirm they read the description and are aware of the flaws listed. Probably 1 out of 3 buyers DID NOT read the description and ask to cancel. Saves a LOT of headaches down the line.

Describing a Flaw Did Not Protect This eBay Seller   Describing a Flaw Did Not Protect This eBay Seller

by: Carol This user has validated their user name.

Tue Jul 7 01:35:53 2015

I don't know if this would help in this instance, but when I (rarely) sell a damaged item, I include AS IS in the title.  If the description is hidden, that should be a tipoff to the buyer.  As I said, however, I do not have experience with this exact situation, so I don't know if that would offer any protection.

I didn't see in the original post whether you tried to call ebay and/or paypal about this.

Describing a Flaw Did Not Protect This eBay Seller   Describing a Flaw Did Not Protect This eBay Seller

by: FREDDY This user has validated their user name.

Tue Jul 7 01:45:01 2015

Toolguy,  Does Walmart come to your house to pick up the return or PAY you to return???

With ebay, seller has to pay for return. Is that fair????

Describing a Flaw Did Not Protect This eBay Seller   Describing a Flaw Did Not Protect This eBay Seller

by: Tiffee Jasso This user has validated their user name.

Tue Jul 7 02:09:09 2015

It is just part of doing business on line. Amazon and Ebay both allow returns for almost any reason and seller is expected to pay for buyer's stupidity or robbery, which ever the case may be. All a seller can do is block that buyer for their part and notify all their friends to steer clear of 'so-and-so buyer" and to pass the word on to their friends. Please do include name and address of said buyer because many repeat offenders change their buyer names regularly.  

Describing a Flaw Did Not Protect This eBay Seller   Describing a Flaw Did Not Protect This eBay Seller

by: St Fi This user has validated their user name.

Tue Jul 7 02:39:57 2015

I have been on ebay since 2005 buying & selling with over 800 sales with great feedback & under 5 negative feedback's & each of them were fraud with ebay an accessory to the fraud. The last week I had been hit 2x with not as described. On the first I posted New Industrial Velcro & the buyer purchased it soon after it was posted. When he recieved it he filed a complaint not as described he claimed he ordered black not white which he recieved. There were no options in the purchase in color or at all, there was 1 box & I didn't mention color. But what the buyer neglected to see was the image of the box said white. It took about 5 calls to get someone who was not fully a  moron to understand my posted images clearly said white. NONE of the first 4 reps could comprehend that 1 & 1 & 1 is three. Finally it was given to me on the last call. A few days ago I Posted a New calculator 15 years old never open & never used. Within a couple of days it was purchased & as I am packing the item I had a bad gut feeling. 2 weeks later he files not as described & he posts 2 images of a piece of junk he claimed I sent him. I am not a fool who believes to post an item as new & send him a piece of junk. I lose dispute. I told ebay I did not want him to return it because he will send me his piece of junk & end up with a brand new calculator for himself & cost him nothing. For me I gave free shipping & will have to Pay shipping back. I have no choice but to have him ship it back. I will probably leave ebay.  

Describing a Flaw Did Not Protect This eBay Seller   Describing a Flaw Did Not Protect This eBay Seller

by: Patches This user has validated their user name.
Web Site

Tue Jul 7 06:04:39 2015

Anymore I just refund at the first hint of trouble.  If I can afford it (the item was small) I don't even bother to have them return it.  The thief must need it more than I and what goes around comes around eventually.

But I am done with ebay, too.  I have thousands of dollars of inventory and all of my efforts for the last three months have been directed at building my own website where I can be my own boss.  So far with just a little success but I am not giving up!  Ebay sales are in the toilet anyway, why should I put my effort there?  I have tried Bonanza (never sold a thing), eBid (never sold a thing) and Etsy (sold a little).  Amazon didn't do much, either.  So, it's up to me.  I am my own best ''venue''.

I am tired of being abused and lied to.  I still have a few things listed but I really don't put much effort there anymore. You can't win for losing!

Describing a Flaw Did Not Protect This eBay Seller   Describing a Flaw Did Not Protect This eBay Seller

by: pace306 This user has validated their user name.

Tue Jul 7 07:25:24 2015

@toolguy

"Philip, if you buy something at Walmart and decide you really didn't want it (changed your mind) would Walmart deny your return?"

Except that WALMART themselves gets to decide the return time period and condition policy - if they take the return at all.

Its THEIR money, and their business - THEY get to decide the terms.

On eBay, because they unjustly benefit from FORCING the return - they do so.

If eBay is just a venue then they have NO LEGAL justification to force anything back on anyone. Just because the eBay chief legal bozo says they do - doesnt make it so.

Describing a Flaw Did Not Protect This eBay Seller   Describing a Flaw Did Not Protect This eBay Seller

by: moonmyst This user has validated their user name.

Tue Jul 7 08:27:30 2015

I've been a small seller on eBay for six years now.  I sell new items, none with flaws.  I've never wanted to buy a flawed item so I've never sold any. That's just my policy.  I had assumed most of the complainers here on this blog had quit eBay and were just licking old wounds.  But it is now apparent that most of you are STILL selling on eBay and continue to harangue the rest of us with nasty, spiteful comments about eBay.  I'm in the minority here, but I have found eBay's customer service reps to be very helpful. I've had to call them only 3 times in those six years of selling and all 3 issues were decided in my favor, and in a professional manner.  If the rest of you are contacting eBay CSRs and speaking to them in the rude and crass way you project yourselves here in this forum, then what do you expect your result will be?  It would be so nice to hear from other eCommerceByte members instead of the same few who have made it their life's work to continually spew venom against eBay.  For the love of your sanity, quit eBay and be happy for a change!  

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