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Mon Feb 23 2015 12:48:31

Antique Spinning Wheel Haunts eBay Seller

By: Reader

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Dear Ina,
I have a story for you that should alert all sellers about the complete and total dishonesty and corruption that is the norm for eBay.

I am a Top Rated seller with 100% positive feedback. Two weeks ago I sold an antique spinning wheel and shipped it via Fed Ex to a buyer in CT. The buyer had over 200 feedback. 

I received a message from the buyer that he hadn't received it and I explained that signature confirmation was required since it was such a large box and considering all of the recent thefts of packages. 

The buyer was furious that he had to sign for the package and was rude and unreasonable which gave me the impression that he was maybe an experienced fraud. 

After Fed Ex tried for 6 days in a row to deliver the package to the address provided by the buyer, which was the address of a closed business, the buyer finally called Fed Ex and refused the package. 

The buyer then called eBay immediately and wanted a refund but the tracking said that Fed Ex was going to attempt delivery of the package that very day. I then noticed that the transaction was removed from my "paid and shipped" queue to my "waiting for payment" queue, which to me indicated that they gave the buyer a refund. 

I then called eBay and asked them why they gave the buyer a refund when the package was literally at his front door and eBay told me straight out that they gave the buyer a "courtesy refund" and that I didn't have to worry about it. 

I even went so far as to ask what I should do if the package was returned to me and the eBay rep said that I could do whatever I wanted with it because it was a "courtesy refund" given by eBay in order to satisfy the buyer, who incidentally at that point had deactivated his entire eBay account after I left negative words in his positive feedback. I straight out asked the EBay customer service rep if I was allowed to resell the spinning wheel if I ever did receive it back and the eBay rep said yes that I could resell it if I wished.

After a week passed I received the spinning wheel back from Fed Ex and I relisted it and sold it again to a happy customer. Right after I received the positive feedback from the last customer I noticed that there was $132 taken out of my PayPal account for the original buyer of the spinning wheel in CT. I called PayPal who connected to eBay for a 3-way call. 

I explained it all to them and was then put on hold by the EBay rep. I waited on hold for over 1 hour (the total call was over 2 hours long at that point) so I hung up because I didn't have all day. It is clear to me now that eBay purposely put me on hold never having the intention of ever reconnecting with me. 

I contacted the original buyer via email and told him that it was theft to collect two refunds for the same item and he responded that he had never received even ONE refund from eBay or PayPal and that he had documentation of the entire situation. 

I was shocked so I called PayPal and they told me that there was never a "courtesy refund" ever given from eBay to the original CT buyer. Apparently after the original CT buyer was refused a refund from eBay he had filed a claim of "unauthorized transaction" and when PayPal saw in the tracking that I had received the package back, they automatically gave the refund to the buyer. 

Logically PayPal explained that "it's either the merchandise or the money, but not both", which I totally understood, but had I known that there was never a "courtesy refund" given by eBay I would have most certainly asked more for the spinning wheel for the second transaction to make up for my shipping losses incurred for the first transaction with the CT buyer. But after reselling it for the same cost and slight loss in shipping cost I ended up gaining nothing after two sales and eBay is clean of any responsibility. What a dirty rotten company EBay is and I am shocked at their blatant abuse and corruption which in my opinion is illegal.

So simply put, eBay lied to me by saying that they gave the buyer a "courtesy refund" when they did not. eBay was banking on the fact that once I received the package back that PayPal would then refund the original buyer because of that claim that the buyer filed. 

I don't blame the buyer for wanting his money back since he never did receive the package, but the point is that eBay totally lied and manipulated the entire situation and then put me on permanent hold when I tried to clear it up. eBay acted like they did the right thing by telling me they gave the buyer a "courtesy refund" when they did not and they blatantly lied to me about it. 

eBay was also counting on the fact that I did not record that telephone conversation when they told me that they issued a "courtesy refund" and that I could resell the item once I got it back. 

I say to all sellers, find a way to start recording ALL of your conversations with this dirty company and I am done with eBay for good. How can I run an honest business working with such dishonest and nasty corrupt people? I cannot and will not. 

This is the last straw for me and believe me there were many straws before this but none as blatantly dirty. eBay is nothing but a fraud and I will be glad to jump on any lawsuit bandwagon because I have seen and experienced things at eBay that have made me feel like I live in a third world country or the "Wild West." 

This company is the most despicable that I have ever seen and if I had not experienced their corruption firsthand I would have never believed it because it is so outrageous.
Patti




Comments (35) | Permalink

Readers Comments

Antique Spinning Wheel Haunts eBay Seller   Antique Spinning Wheel Haunts eBay Seller

by: P.Dorf This user has validated their user name.

Mon Feb 23 15:12:23 2015

Sorry to hear, but no surprise, about your dealings with fleecebay.

If you're a regular reader here, then you know you have been a victim of Ming's Law

Ebay lies

Antique Spinning Wheel Haunts eBay Seller   Antique Spinning Wheel Haunts eBay Seller

by: justsaying This user has validated their user name.

Mon Feb 23 15:59:49 2015

Hi there--I feel your pain.  I just ended 135 of my 335 listings on eBay today.  The sell-through rate is terrible, and no matter how hard I try, I can't grow my business.  Yet, my fees are ever-increasing.  I feel cheated, too.

Antique Spinning Wheel Haunts eBay Seller   Antique Spinning Wheel Haunts eBay Seller

by: sasikat9 This user has validated their user name.

Mon Feb 23 16:10:13 2015

There is no such thing as black and white with customer service at Fleecebay...

Everything is fuzzy grey...

If you believe what they say you are participating in the fuzzy grey and shouldn't be surprised when you find out you have been lied to.

Antique Spinning Wheel Haunts eBay Seller   Antique Spinning Wheel Haunts eBay Seller

This user has validated their user name. by: iheartjacksparrow

Mon Feb 23 21:41:38 2015

It has been widely reported on this site that eBay CSRs will say anything to get you off the phone, whether there is any semblance of truth or not.

Antique Spinning Wheel Haunts eBay Seller   Antique Spinning Wheel Haunts eBay Seller

by: OnlyPollyPocket This user has validated their user name.

Mon Feb 23 22:10:49 2015

This is unforgivable while certainly not surprising.  How does company continue to fly under the radar for any regulation whatsoever?

Oh, of course, they are just a venue...bah!

Antique Spinning Wheel Haunts eBay Seller   Antique Spinning Wheel Haunts eBay Seller

This user has validated their user name. by: Bill

Tue Feb 24 00:26:57 2015

This is oh so typical of eBay and as I have stated before why any body pays to put a listing on eBay is beyond me. It is a complete waste of money and we have not paid for a listing since I closed the store in '10 but we still have sales on this and many other sites.
eBay has done more to turn off buyers and if they were a major department store like Montgomery Wards they would be bankrupt and out of business but as long as fools pay to have their listings shown they will still make money.
As long as this goes on eBay will still be in business as long as people will pay to list and not have any sales. Until the sellers wake up this will still go on.

Antique Spinning Wheel Haunts eBay Seller   Antique Spinning Wheel Haunts eBay Seller

by: comet This user has validated their user name.

Tue Feb 24 01:38:40 2015

While not only does ebay LIE they commit RICO violations for which they are not sanctioned.  I have written to the NY State Atty General about this with no resolve and I know many other sellers from all over have done the same.  

The fact is that the CEO of the company is in cahoots with government officials and is also a very major contributor to many political war chests.  

While I feel very bad for this seller it is not the first time nor the last that we will hear about this.  I just finished up a "case"  yesterday with an unscrupulous buyer--and I had a TWO HOUR series of "conversations"  with three CSR's--one of whom insisted that I was calling about a bad Feed Back issue--which I was not!  I believe I have this particular bad buyers problem sorted--- but you can never sleep easy when ebay is involved.  I have had to throw away damaged items that were returned to me by bad buyers who have complained that the item was damaged--when of course it was NOT when I mailed it! I have had ebay "refund"  buyers and then had the buyers KEEP the items--this is plain out and out THEFT.

For some reason ebay is "protected"  by secret agreements between the CEO and the politicans. IF you knew that there would never BE any consequences related to YOUR actions--wouldn't YOU try to get away with whatever you could?  

They don't care--and never DID care--about the "noise" that are the sellers.  

Antique Spinning Wheel Haunts eBay Seller   Antique Spinning Wheel Haunts eBay Seller

by: Carol This user has validated their user name.

Tue Feb 24 01:55:57 2015

I don't often call ebay support but, if I do and get an answer that doesn't seem reasonable to me (as your first one didn't), I ask the CS to give me the number assigned to their notes of the call and keep that for future reference.  If you have to call a second time, the CS will then have the notes of the first call available.  

I think that has 2 beneficial effects for the seller.  It lets the CS know that you will be able to refer to their call (making them more careful about accuracy, at least in theory) and it may change the outcome of the subsequent contact if you were given misinformation.

It's absurd that this is necessary, but the decline in quality of CS answers makes it a good idea to protect yourself from misinformation if at all possible.

Antique Spinning Wheel Haunts eBay Seller   Antique Spinning Wheel Haunts eBay Seller

This user has validated their user name. by: Philip Cohen
Web Site

Tue Feb 24 03:03:30 2015

“This company is the most despicable that I have ever seen …”

You’ve got that spot on, Patti … http://bit.ly/11F2eas

The eBay executive suite—where the incompetent mingle with the disingenuous, the malevolent and the outright criminal, and the just plain stupid ...

Antique Spinning Wheel Haunts eBay Seller   Antique Spinning Wheel Haunts eBay Seller

This user has validated their user name. by: Marie

Tue Feb 24 03:19:31 2015

What a mess.  That CSR really messed you up.  For the record Ebay doesn't do courtesy refunds for that large of a dollar value.  Unless it is some new thing they are doing.  They typically will only do much smaller $$s.

Your buyer was in the wrong however and if they had tried to file an INR claim, you could have won it easily because they refused the shipment.  

This became a mess because of the bad information you got from the CSR.  It didn't have to be that way.

Now with PP and the claim they paid out.  They should not have done that without giving you an opportunity to respond and for that reason along, I'd call PP and raise some heck with them.  By their own written policy that isn't suppose to happen.

If you choose to call PP again, make sure you show them that you have evidence the buyer refused the shipment.  It was deliverable, it was the buyer that prevented the delivery.

Antique Spinning Wheel Haunts eBay Seller   Antique Spinning Wheel Haunts eBay Seller

This user has validated their user name. by: Rexford

Tue Feb 24 07:13:11 2015

Wish the title of this article were "Antique Spinning Wheel, Fraudulent Buyer, eBay and PayPal Haunts eBay Seller"

Antique Spinning Wheel Haunts eBay Seller   Antique Spinning Wheel Haunts eBay Seller

This user has validated their user name. by: Anonymous Annie

Tue Feb 24 07:32:48 2015

One gets the feeling that eBay doesn't train their csr's.

How does it work? Self-study manual? OJT? Pass a quiz on how to work the phone and you're ready-to-go?

Is there any ONGOING training for new rules and procedures?

Is there a REVIEW process to make sure csr's are doing their job properly?

Based on many of the descriptions here, it seems as though eBay could do better with the original ''ALICE'' artificial intelligence program.

Antique Spinning Wheel Haunts eBay Seller   Antique Spinning Wheel Haunts eBay Seller

by: spooky This user has validated their user name.

Tue Feb 24 08:13:19 2015

I primarily sell but also have won many auction items on eBay. In the past, I have also been sent an item FedEx that required signature. It is a nightmare - I work for a living and would never be home to sign . Unlike the post office, the nearest FexEx is nearly 10 miles away. No wonder the buyer was upset.

Antique Spinning Wheel Haunts eBay Seller   Antique Spinning Wheel Haunts eBay Seller

by: Moonwishes This user has validated their user name.
Web Site

Tue Feb 24 09:08:43 2015

It seems like everyone has forgotten about the buyer. WHY was he having an item delivered to a closed business in the first place? Did he expect the delivering company to leave it at the door for someone to steal. Granted ebay became part of the problem eventually, but the buyer was the problem. If they could call Fedex to tell them to send the item back, why not be able to tell them where they were so that they could actually sign for it? The buyer got themselves into this mess, and didn't try to do a thing to help out the seller to fullfil their end of the deal. Obviously ebay and PP didn't help, but it was the buyer who caused the problem. Many people work for a living and still manage to sign and receive Fedex packages, but I doubt they are having them sent to a closed business to start with.

Antique Spinning Wheel Haunts eBay Seller   Antique Spinning Wheel Haunts eBay Seller

by: FREDDY This user has validated their user name.

Tue Feb 24 09:09:55 2015

It's ebay.... Did you expect honesty?????

Antique Spinning Wheel Haunts eBay Seller   Antique Spinning Wheel Haunts eBay Seller

by: ebaighsucks This user has validated their user name.

Tue Feb 24 09:33:07 2015

Not sure why ANY seller would still use paypal! Sign up for a merchant account and let buyers know they can send you a check if they are uncomfortable with giving out credit card information.
Paypal is a nefarious company preying on sellers.

Antique Spinning Wheel Haunts eBay Seller   Antique Spinning Wheel Haunts eBay Seller

by: DebraD This user has validated their user name.

Tue Feb 24 10:00:31 2015

Hi,

I had a similar situation with a transaction a while ago. Ebay did a courtesy refund, but low and behold the money came out of my Paypal account. I called Ebay immediately and the process was explained. My Ebay account was credited the amount of the refund. So,Ebay does not send courtesy refunds directly to the customer. They let Paypal refund when the return is received and then they give a credit against fees to the seller. Call them back to confirm.

Antique Spinning Wheel Haunts eBay Seller   Antique Spinning Wheel Haunts eBay Seller

by: RCL This user has validated their user name.

Tue Feb 24 10:50:15 2015

I have had these given to my buyers twice. Both over $300 sales. In BOTH I had clear proof that the item had been received and signed for by the buyer! Nonetheless, eBay refunded their payments. It cost me nothing, except the knowledge that eBay supports mail fraud. It was very sobering.

Antique Spinning Wheel Haunts eBay Seller   Antique Spinning Wheel Haunts eBay Seller

This user has validated their user name. by: Rexford

Tue Feb 24 11:18:10 2015

Spooky says "No wonder the buyer was upset."

The buyer should be happy that the seller sent an expensive item requiring a signature confirmation.  This ensures that the item will not be "missing from his/her porch".

eBay/PayPal and  Amazon have proven time and time again that you can't send an expensive item without a signature requirement.  If the item goes missing, it doesn't come out of those companies' coffers.

If the buyers want to be upset, they'll just have to be upset.  Seasoned sellers are not going to risk it.  If the shoe was on the other foot, and the buyer had experienced what we sellers experience, he/she would do the same.

Antique Spinning Wheel Haunts eBay Seller   Antique Spinning Wheel Haunts eBay Seller

by: Tornad0sRul This user has validated their user name.

Tue Feb 24 11:47:52 2015

The fact that the transaction was moved from the seller's "paid and shipped" queue to the "awaiting payment" queue while the package was in transit clearly indicates that a refund was somehow given.  Either that or the EBay customer service reps have the power to manipulate the system which would be insane considering they are the biggest problem with EBay.  

Clearly customer service reps are either 1) not supervised, 2) not disciplined for doing bad work or providing corrupt service, or 3) are told by their supervisors to say and do those dirty and corrupt things to sellers.  The supervisors of customer service are just as bad as the actual reps therefore whoever is in charge of EBay's entire customer service department should be immediately fired and the entire department needs overhaul.  The simple fact that EBay continues to provide such ridiculously inept and actually devious and dishonest customer service shows that they don't care.

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