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Tue Feb 10 2015 17:18:35

Seller Gives Up on eBay Due to 'Atrocious' Practices

By: Reader

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Dear Ina,
I guess it is time to just give up on eBay. Their programming and practices are atrocious.

On 1/19/2015, I sold a small paper item to a buyer. The buyer paid via PayPal; however, when I checked the payment, eBay was showing the payment as "processing" and PayPal was showing that the payment was via an e-check, and gave instructions to NOT ship the item until the payment cleared. Apparently e-checks are what come into play when the buyer does not have the funds in his PayPal account, and does not have his account set up to pull from a credit card or debit card, but instead only a bank account.

On 1/21/2015, I received a notice from PayPal that the buyer's bank refused the payment and that they would request the payment again from the bank in 3 business days, and that it would take about another 3 business days for the payment to clear if approved. I sent this information to the buyer via the eBay messaging system.

On 1/26/2015, I received a message from the buyer that he had not received the item yet. I sent a message back again explaining that his PayPal e-check payment had not cleared, and that I could not send the item until I was notified by PayPal that the payment had cleared.

On 1/29/2015, I received a notice from PayPal that the payment had cleared. I immediately shipped the item to the buyer via regular USPS First Class Mail, and notified the buyer via the eBay messaging system that the payment had cleared, and the item had been shipped, and to please allow at least 5 business days for delivery. Since the item is a small piece of payer, I sent it via regular mail. Unfortunately, tracking is not available for this. I see that the payment "processing" icon for the item has changed to "paid" in eBay. Interestingly enough, the date for the payment shows as 01/19/2015, even though the payment did not clear until 01/29/2015. There is no mention anywhere in the payment history that it has taken 10 days for the payment to clear... only that it was paid on 01/19/2015.

On 1/30/2015, I received a notice from eBay that the buyer has opened a "request" because he is upset that his coupon has not arrived yet. My PayPal funds for this item have been locked and will be unavailable until the item is delivered to the buyer.

So let's review...

- I absolutely hate PayPal e-checks... however, there is no way to turn them off when using eBay... only if using PayPal with a service other than eBay can we refuse to accept them. We MUST accept PayPal e-checks if accepting PayPal payments on eBay.

- PayPal e-checks can take a very long time to clear, and PayPal states that the seller should not ship the item to the buyer until the payment has cleared. During this time, the payment is showing as "processing" in eBay.

- When payment finally clears, PayPal instructs the seller to ship the item to the buyer. eBay then shows that the item is "paid" in their system. However, it shows the original date of payment... not the date that the payment clears. This makes it look like the seller is taking forever to ship the item for no apparent reason. There seems to be no mention at all in the eBay system that the payment has been "processing" all this time.

- The eBay system allows the buyer to "request" information regarding the shipment of the item, even though the item has only been in shipment for 1 day. This "request" locks the sellers payment for the item in PayPal. Both eBay and PayPal show that the item was paid on the original date of payment, and not on the date the payment was cleared.

Solution:

- Block the buyer from all future sales. He is apparently not reading the messages that were sent to him in the eBay messaging system.

- Discontinue all sales on eBay (what few there have been) as the system is apparently ill-programmed to allow this type of thing to happen in the first place. PayPal's programming is questionable as well.

- Make sure that the option is checked to not allow e-check payments in sales to other venues (amazing that it can be turned off if using another venue, but cannot be turned off when using with eBay.)

Isn't online selling fun!!!

Thanks for letting me vent, Ina.
Bob M.




Comments (79) | Permalink

Readers Comments

Seller Gives Up on eBay Due to 'Atrocious' Practic   Seller Gives Up on eBay Due to 'Atrocious' Practic

This user has validated their user name. by: askalice59

Tue Feb 10 17:31:34 2015

I just don't see how you could send anything after all that without tracking.  

Seller Gives Up on eBay Due to 'Atrocious' Practic   Seller Gives Up on eBay Due to 'Atrocious' Practic

This user has validated their user name. by: Philip Cohen
Web Site

Tue Feb 10 19:23:52 2015

I suspect PayPal e-checks may be payments via PayPal by people who do not actually have a PayPal account ...

The eBay executive suite—where the incompetent mingle with the disingenuous, the malevolent and the outright criminal, and the just plain stupid ... http://bit.ly/11F2eas

Seller Gives Up on eBay Due to 'Atrocious' Practic   Seller Gives Up on eBay Due to 'Atrocious' Practic

by: mjr55 This user has validated their user name.

Tue Feb 10 19:52:12 2015

Again...so blame Ebay because you don't ship with tracking? All of this could have been resolved with a 2 minute phone call to the buyer if you felt they were not getting your emails. The Paypal cleared date really wouldn't have been an issue because if you called Ebay, they would probably verify it was a glitch. Regardless, you don't have tracking....that is what your downfall is here.

You would be wise to call the buyer after you feel they have received the item, tell them to email you and just say they received the item (but don't have them close the case), and then call Ebay CS and have them close the case in your favor based on the buyer's email.

Seller Gives Up on eBay Due to 'Atrocious' Practic   Seller Gives Up on eBay Due to 'Atrocious' Practic

by: troglites This user has validated their user name.

Tue Feb 10 19:58:29 2015

I'm sorry this happened to you, but not surprised in the least bit. The fact that Ebay's system is showing the payment date as 01/19/15 misrepresentation and is misleading - a permanent glitch at best. In the real world, the payment date transpires on the actual date the money is received by it's recipient. I had some e-checks. Despite Ebay's  warning of concern (right), not to send the orders, because the items were not expensive, I went ahead and sent them out anyway. I knew  it was highly unlikely Ebay would back me up. Why do I say this? If they were going to back up sellers in the first place, the transaction would not be allowed to continue if the funds were not currently available in the buyers account. But it is something a seller has to weigh - and they have to decide what's best for them.

In the beginning, I did wait to send the item, and one time the buyer was became very irate and was a real jerk. If you send the item, Ebay is going to say you should had not - you did not heed our ''warning.'' If you don't send it, your faced with Ebay's typical response of backing up the buyer, and  the possibility of facing a misrepresentation of the facts such in your case... Buyer initiates purchase  on the 19th, E-check clears the 29th, and the archives of Ebay it shows he or she paid for it the 19th - no if, ands or buts. And gee says the CSR -looking at the data, it appears you waited ten days before shipping it out.  

Seller Gives Up on eBay Due to 'Atrocious' Practic   Seller Gives Up on eBay Due to 'Atrocious' Practic

This user has validated their user name. by: Rexford

Wed Feb 11 06:47:31 2015

I clearly understand your frustration with eBay and e-checks and buyers who are noobs, but one of the ways that you HAVE to protect yourself is by using tracking.  We won't even ship a button without it.  If you ship without tracking all a buyer has to do is state he didn't receive the package and you are cooked and done.

Seller Gives Up on eBay Due to 'Atrocious' Practic   Seller Gives Up on eBay Due to 'Atrocious' Practic

by: MLN This user has validated their user name.

Wed Feb 11 09:49:28 2015

Actually, it's not entirely true that we can't reject e-checks on eBay. In my experience, if you specify the ''require immediate payment'' option in your listings, then the buyer won't be able to select e-check on PayPal.

Seller Gives Up on eBay Due to 'Atrocious' Practic   Seller Gives Up on eBay Due to 'Atrocious' Practic

This user has validated their user name. by: iheartjacksparrow

Wed Feb 11 10:56:31 2015

Bob M. states: "Apparently e-checks are what come into play when the buyer does not have the funds in his PayPal account, and does not have his account set up to pull from a credit card or debit card, but instead only a bank account."

I don't know if that's correct. When I pay with PayPal, the money always comes from my bank account, with a credit card as the back-up funding. I have never had payment sent as an eCheck as there has always been sufficient funds in my checking account to cover payment. But maybe the back-up funding is what makes the difference.

I agree with the others who stated there should be tracking on everything mailed. Every item I sell has to ship, at a minimum, as a First Class Package, so I have tracking on everything. From reading the letter, I guess Bob is selling coupons, one at time perhaps? Maybe it would be a better idea to sell coupons in lots (10, 20, whatever) so that the cost of First Class Package postage (with free tracking) can be easily absorbed in the cost of the coupons.  

Seller Gives Up on eBay Due to 'Atrocious' Practic   Seller Gives Up on eBay Due to 'Atrocious' Practic

by: RCL This user has validated their user name.

Wed Feb 11 11:51:20 2015

Ask Marie--but I am pretty sure you can get tracking on a first class letter. If not, start using those flat lightweight bubble mailers? Was it all worth a couple bucks?

Seller Gives Up on eBay Due to 'Atrocious' Practic   Seller Gives Up on eBay Due to 'Atrocious' Practic

This user has validated their user name. by: laurengrace

Wed Feb 11 12:44:03 2015

You don't need a bubble mailer-just one of those small 5x7 manilla envelopes and ship as first class package. Tracking is not available on first class letter.

Seller Gives Up on eBay Due to 'Atrocious' Practic   Seller Gives Up on eBay Due to 'Atrocious' Practic

This user has validated their user name. by: laurengrace

Wed Feb 11 12:46:44 2015

On the other hand, if the sale is small, may be worth taking a chance at first class mail rates. If you get 1 claim in 200 or more.

Seller Gives Up on eBay Due to 'Atrocious' Practic   Seller Gives Up on eBay Due to 'Atrocious' Practic

This user has validated their user name. by: iheartjacksparrow

Wed Feb 11 14:23:36 2015

@RCL - I believe there was talk about the post office selling little tracking stickers for every service, but I don't think that was ever implemented.  

Seller Gives Up on eBay Due to 'Atrocious' Practic   Seller Gives Up on eBay Due to 'Atrocious' Practic

by: ebay refugee camp This user has validated their user name.

Wed Feb 11 14:34:20 2015

I understand that the item was probably not sold for enough to cover the cost of tracking.
However, you are just inviting problems, the thieves are going to eat you up if you are selling on ebay.
You are going to have to pass along the cost of the delivery confirmation to the buyer.

Seller Gives Up on eBay Due to 'Atrocious' Practic   Seller Gives Up on eBay Due to 'Atrocious' Practic

This user has validated their user name. by: windsorbear

Wed Feb 11 15:00:16 2015

Okay gang... I'm not a newbie... I've been selling on eBay since 1998.  What you are all missing here, is even with tracking... my funds would have STILL been blocked until at least 4 days later.  It took 10 days for the payment to clear... I shipped on the date of the payment clearing as per PayPal, and the buyer opened the request the next day, which froze my payment in PayPal.  Even with tracking, according to the eBay rep, the payment would have remained frozen for at least 4 days.  Are we clear on this... whether I had tracking or not would not have made a difference.  My funds were locked for 4 days... regardless of tracking.... because the buyer paid with an e-check that took 10 days to clear and he opened a request the following day after shipment was made.  And yes... everything I list is always marked as ''Requires Immediate Payment.''  e-Checks are required to be accepted by sellers that accept PayPal on eBay.  It cannot be turned off (just go to PayPal and try to turn it off... it will let you know real quick that it can not be turned off for eBay).  e-Checks are generated when a bank account is the sole source of payment for a PayPal account (no backup via credit or debit card).  The seller has no way to weed these buyers out.  By the way, the buyer got the item, and left positive feedback, but eBay still wouldn't clear the hold for 4 days.  The buyer also ignored all messages from me and from eBay regarding the request.  eBay found in my favor...unfroze my funds, but STILL GAVE THE BUYER HIS MONEY BACK FOR HAVING TO WAIT FOR HIS COUPON EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE THE ONES THAT TOLD ME TO NOT SHIP UNTIL THE PAYMENT CLEARED.  He got his coupon and a refund... all because he didn't fund his PayPal account with anything but a checking account.  eBay should show the date of the payment clearing... not the date of the payment being initiated... it makes it look like the seller is just sitting on the item during that whole time.  Also, why is a buyer allowed to open a request, which puts a hold on payments, on the next day after shipment is made???  I mail coupons using First Class Mail.  Buyers are not going to buy coupons if they have to pay package shipping costs.  We sellers that occasionally sell coupons are aware of this, and know we are ''prey'' for unscrupulous sellers.  However, eBay needs to play ''fair'' here... tracking is NOT a requirement for selling on their site (at least not yet though I have heard rumors of a possible upcoming change to that). When eBay AND PayPal tell us to NOT SHIP until e-check payments have been cleared, they should not penalize us for doing what they tell us to do.  If the payment date had shown as the date of payment clearing instead of the date of payment made, then I don't think the ''request'' would have caused the funds to be frozen.  Rant now over!!!!

Seller Gives Up on eBay Due to 'Atrocious' Practic   Seller Gives Up on eBay Due to 'Atrocious' Practic

by: angryllama This user has validated their user name.

Wed Feb 11 15:26:58 2015

$1.93   Yep, $1.93 is the PAYPAL/EBAY rate for a 3 ounce PACKAGE with full end to end tracking. The price is  actually the SAME for 1, 2 up thru 3 ounce package/envelope/mailer.  Right now eBay is for all intents and purposes REQUIRING TRACKING on each and EVERY shipment. Failing to provide tracking is detrimental to YOUR account's status.  Just set this sort of LOW $value$ item to cover the $1.93.  After all what do you think it is costing you to send a 2 ounce with two stamps?  If you think you can use TWO "forever" stamps and let a 2 oz. envelope go at THAT rate... think again.  Dig into the details and you will see that FOREVER stamps can only be used for one ounce OR below regular size, shape AND cannot be STIFF.  There is NO allowance for using say... 2 forever for 2 oz or 5 forever for 5 ounce.  MUCH of the time you will "get away with it", but the times you do NOT... bad things can happen.  The PACKAGE/Envelope will be delivered to your customer, but with POSTAGE DUE that is all out of line with the missing few pennies. Far quicker, easier, SAFER for your own sanity to PUNT and always use PayPal/Ebay lables for that same first class LOW weight package / envelope.  Costco and Sams Wholesale BOTH stock / sell Size 0 padded mailers for about $5 for 25 mailers.

Seller Gives Up on eBay Due to 'Atrocious' Practic   Seller Gives Up on eBay Due to 'Atrocious' Practic

by: angryllama This user has validated their user name.

Wed Feb 11 15:27:05 2015

$1.93   Yep, $1.93 is the PAYPAL/EBAY rate for a 3 ounce PACKAGE with full end to end tracking. The price is  actually the SAME for 1, 2 up thru 3 ounce package/envelope/mailer.  Right now eBay is for all intents and purposes REQUIRING TRACKING on each and EVERY shipment. Failing to provide tracking is detrimental to YOUR account's status.  Just set this sort of LOW $value$ item to cover the $1.93.  After all what do you think it is costing you to send a 2 ounce with two stamps?  If you think you can use TWO "forever" stamps and let a 2 oz. envelope go at THAT rate... think again.  Dig into the details and you will see that FOREVER stamps can only be used for one ounce OR below regular size, shape AND cannot be STIFF.  There is NO allowance for using say... 2 forever for 2 oz or 5 forever for 5 ounce.  MUCH of the time you will "get away with it", but the times you do NOT... bad things can happen.  The PACKAGE/Envelope will be delivered to your customer, but with POSTAGE DUE that is all out of line with the missing few pennies. Far quicker, easier, SAFER for your own sanity to PUNT and always use PayPal/Ebay lables for that same first class LOW weight package / envelope.  Costco and Sams Wholesale BOTH stock / sell Size 0 padded mailers for about $5 for 25 mailers.

Seller Gives Up on eBay Due to 'Atrocious' Practic   Seller Gives Up on eBay Due to 'Atrocious' Practic

by: angryllama This user has validated their user name.

Wed Feb 11 15:27:12 2015

$1.93   Yep, $1.93 is the PAYPAL/EBAY rate for a 3 ounce PACKAGE with full end to end tracking. The price is  actually the SAME for 1, 2 up thru 3 ounce package/envelope/mailer.  Right now eBay is for all intents and purposes REQUIRING TRACKING on each and EVERY shipment. Failing to provide tracking is detrimental to YOUR account's status.  Just set this sort of LOW $value$ item to cover the $1.93.  After all what do you think it is costing you to send a 2 ounce with two stamps?  If you think you can use TWO "forever" stamps and let a 2 oz. envelope go at THAT rate... think again.  Dig into the details and you will see that FOREVER stamps can only be used for one ounce OR below regular size, shape AND cannot be STIFF.  There is NO allowance for using say... 2 forever for 2 oz or 5 forever for 5 ounce.  MUCH of the time you will "get away with it", but the times you do NOT... bad things can happen.  The PACKAGE/Envelope will be delivered to your customer, but with POSTAGE DUE that is all out of line with the missing few pennies. Far quicker, easier, SAFER for your own sanity to PUNT and always use PayPal/Ebay lables for that same first class LOW weight package / envelope.  Costco and Sams Wholesale BOTH stock / sell Size 0 padded mailers for about $5 for 25 mailers.

Seller Gives Up on eBay Due to 'Atrocious' Practic   Seller Gives Up on eBay Due to 'Atrocious' Practic

This user has validated their user name. by: laurengrace

Wed Feb 11 15:27:34 2015

Totally agree Windsorbear. They should not mark it as paid the day they initiate the payment, and should definitely not be able to file a "request" one day after payment clears. You are preaching to the choir here. I myself hate ebay and would never go back until it is sold.

Seller Gives Up on eBay Due to 'Atrocious' Practic   Seller Gives Up on eBay Due to 'Atrocious' Practic

by: angryllama This user has validated their user name.

Wed Feb 11 15:29:33 2015

$1.93   Yep, $1.93 is the PAYPAL/EBAY rate for a 3 ounce PACKAGE with full end to end tracking. The price is  actually the SAME for 1, 2 up thru 3 ounce package/envelope/mailer.  Right now eBay is for all intents and purposes REQUIRING TRACKING on each and EVERY shipment. Failing to provide tracking is detrimental to YOUR account's status.  Just set this sort of LOW $value$ item to cover the $1.93.  After all what do you think it is costing you to send a 2 ounce with two stamps?  If you think you can use TWO "forever" stamps and let a 2 oz. envelope go at THAT rate... think again.  Dig into the details and you will see that FOREVER stamps can only be used for one ounce OR below regular size, shape AND cannot be STIFF.  There is NO allowance for using say... 2 forever for 2 oz or 5 forever for 5 ounce.  MUCH of the time you will "get away with it", but the times you do NOT... bad things can happen.  The PACKAGE/Envelope will be delivered to your customer, but with POSTAGE DUE that is all out of line with the missing few pennies. Far quicker, easier, SAFER for your own sanity to PUNT and always use PayPal/Ebay lables for that same first class LOW weight package / envelope.  Costco and Sams Wholesale BOTH stock / sell Size 0 padded mailers for about $5 for 25 mailers.

Seller Gives Up on eBay Due to 'Atrocious' Practic   Seller Gives Up on eBay Due to 'Atrocious' Practic

This user has validated their user name. by: windsorbear

Wed Feb 11 15:38:27 2015

I may not have majored in business administration, but I'm pretty sure that if I sell a coupon for $2, and require 50 cents for postage, I'm not going to make much money if I have to pay $1.93 for shipping and pay for the cost of a mailer.  And if I try to sell a $2 coupon with a shipping charge of $1.93 attached to it, nobody's going to buy it.  There ARE some things that people sell that buyers are NOT going to buy if the shipping is above that of a first class stamp.  I know the dangers of possibly being scammed on this, but I need my "VENUE" to play fairly with me on this... not purposely do things to make it more difficult.

Seller Gives Up on eBay Due to 'Atrocious' Practic   Seller Gives Up on eBay Due to 'Atrocious' Practic

This user has validated their user name. by: Philip Cohen
Web Site

Wed Feb 11 15:57:36 2015

@windsorbear,

Your story is just one more of the very many that demonstrate that eBay’s right hand has no idea of what its left hand is doing—or they simply don’t care; methinks a combination of the two most likely …

The eBay executive suite—where the incompetent mingle with the disingenuous, the malevolent and the outright criminal, and the just plain stupid ... http://bit.ly/11F2eas

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