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Sun Sept 14 2014 13:05:24

Sellers Find Fault with eBay Money Back Guarantee

By: Reader

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Here are representative emails from readers about the eBay Money Back Guarantee policy and its impact on sellers.

Dear Ina,
Over the years that I have been selling on eBay, since 1998, I have had a small percentage of returns, compared to the number of pleased and satisfied Buyers.

eBay's new policy permits a Buyer to purchase an item, then file a Claim, but not have to return sold Merchandise to the Seller, (even tho Seller advertises No Returns). eBay can then have PayPal return funds to Buyer. The eBay Money Back Guarantee!!

Seller has no "say" in this policy procedure. No ability to contradict the Buyer's claims of problems, no possibility for Seller to relist and sell the item, as it is NOT necessary for the Buyer to return the purchase...just make a Claim!

This policy is enforced by the fact that eBay owns PayPal, who can and will take funds from a Seller's account, without the Account Holder's permission, and then transfer these funds to the Buyer.

The Buyer can make any kind of false claim, because they are the only one who will see the item, other than the Seller. eBay apparently finds no need for verification.

The Seller does not have the opportunity to resell their merchandise...just the opportunity to give the Buyer, both the Item and the refund payment.
From a Long-Time Disgusted eBay Seller

***

Dear Ina,
Just wondering if anyone else has had this happen to. I sold an item and buyer opened not as described (instant defect). Buyer has a media player that didn't support what they bought...(not my fault).

I asked the buyer if the media player they bought supported the disc they bought because I didn't think it did.

The buyer NEVER responds to me...2 weeks later escalates to eBay. eBay just closed it and gave them their money back and they got to keep the item.

eBay didn't take the money from me, which is nice, but what does that say to the sellers where buyers can now buy things, open up cases, and get their money back and get to keep the item?

I thought they would rule in my favor because the buyer never responded, never sent back item, then when it was ruled in my favor the defect would go away....but that never happened.
S.




Comments (23) | Permalink

Readers Comments

Sellers Find Fault with eBay Money Back Guarantee   Sellers Find Fault with eBay Money Back Guarantee

This user has validated their user name. by: Marie

Sun Sep 14 13:23:07 2014

Claims can be very tricky.  Ebay does refund buyers if they paid only a few bucks for the item.  They have done this for years.  It isn't new.  

The important part it to check on how the claim was closed.  Was it at No Fault, in favor of the Seller, or in favor of the buyer.  The first 2 do not cause a defect.  The other does.  If this claim was not closed as NO FAULT, then you need to call and appeal.  It sounds as if it could qualify for No Fault, which would mean NO defect.  So it could be worth a call.

When dealing with a claim, assume nothing and document everything.  Buyer's remorse is NOT supported by the Ebay Money Back Guarantee, but you have to be able to prove it clearly.  And if the buyer stated in the claim that what they bought didn't fit with what they had, it could qualify as that.

Sellers Find Fault with eBay Money Back Guarantee   Sellers Find Fault with eBay Money Back Guarantee

by: sasikat9 This user has validated their user name.

Sun Sep 14 13:50:29 2014

I think the posters problem is he offers no returns. In Ebay speak there is no such thing as no returns....

When a person claims snad and seller has no returns then Ebay assumes the seller doesn't want the item back.

If seller offers returns there isn't a problem with getting the item back.

Sellers Find Fault with eBay Money Back Guarantee   Sellers Find Fault with eBay Money Back Guarantee

by: quirkyantiques This user has validated their user name.

Sun Sep 14 15:21:28 2014

Sasikat is 100% correct-while Ebay tells you that you are free to have a NO RETURNS policy what they DON'T tell you is exactly how Ebay views this policy. As sasikat stated-EBay's position is that if you say No returns then you do NOT want that item back under any circumstances. Yet another example of how many ways from Sunday that you can be shafted by their unethical Catch 22 policies even while sticking to the rules.

Sellers Find Fault with eBay Money Back Guarantee   Sellers Find Fault with eBay Money Back Guarantee

by: Steevo This user has validated their user name.

Sun Sep 14 15:46:37 2014

Ebay just thinks returns are very important to buyers, so they are dictating that.

But the question should really be when are returns warranted, and when are they not?

I buy things at the swapmeet.  At the swapmeet some sellers quote you a good guaranteed price, a high price.  Some quote a cheap price, and I would never expect returns or guarantees if I get something at a good cheap as-is price. Some buyers disagree and want everything to be guaranteed even at very cheap prices, and I don't consider that reasonable at all.

But I have had that discussion with swapmeet sellers  ''That's a guaranteed price, right''.  The sketchy ones start squirming at that time.

If you buy something that's worth $60 or $80 or even more for $5 or $7, well, that's you taking responsibility for that.  It's an as-is price, and you should look at it carefully before you buy.  But I never ask to plug such an item in to see if it works!  Why? If it's tested to work, the price should be higher.  I understand that!  The seller would be justified in raising the price after testing, and I don't want that.  I am a professional buyer so I know how to take the risk. And I know when the risk is too high, with the prices.

But a $60 or $80 item that the seller wants $40-$50 for, well, that's a guaranteed price.   At that price you should expect things to be fine with it. And him to stand behind it.

It's like that on ebay, or it should be.  

If you sell something at an as-is price, that price should be a final sale price.  Like a $3,000 I.T. item for $79.  If you sell for a guaranteed price, well, you have to guarantee it, and the buyer is paying for that guarantee.  Like a $45,000 item I sold for $8,000. Guaranteed to work! Absolutely, we tested it, and someone got a great deal!

This is all what ebay inc. does not understand.  Or maybe they do and they want all the cheap stuff off ebay, and want us to sell guaranteed items we bought at regular wholesale for a retail price.

The only trouble with that is in the areas we sell in everything is so cheap, it doesn't pay for the guarantee.  

And guess what, in business, someone has to pay for *everything*.  

The buyer pays for the seller's business insurance, Obamacare, self employment tax, the cost of the item, packing, shipping, ebay fees, overhead, everything.  Even the guarantee and easy returns on that item.  

It kind of precludes selling at very cheap prices!

It's how the world is. The sooner everyone recognizes these facts the better.  

Sellers Find Fault with eBay Money Back Guarantee   Sellers Find Fault with eBay Money Back Guarantee

This user has validated their user name. by: Marie

Sun Sep 14 21:34:42 2014

@sasikat9 & quirkyantiques

It doesn't matter what your return policy is.  Ebay for YEARS has refunded low $$ stuff to buyers out of Ebay's money.  It is not anything new nor does it have anything to do with what type of return policy the seller has.  

I disagree that when a seller has a policy of No Returns, that does NOT equal they don't want the item.  The two are not the same thing at all.  

There are many reasons why a seller may have a No return policy just as many B&M have no return policies on certain items.

But again, this policy is not new, has been around for years and has affected sellers that accept returns as well as those that don't.  No money or privileges is lost by the seller.

Sellers Find Fault with eBay Money Back Guarantee   Sellers Find Fault with eBay Money Back Guarantee

This user has validated their user name. by: Ric

Sun Sep 14 21:49:52 2014

The vast majority of SNAD and received damaged claims could be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt if only eBay required buyers to provide photographs when they file claims.

Granted this would not help in the OP's case, but..

eBay for some reason prefers to be the blind judge and jury and find in the buyers favor 99.9% of the time rather than place a simple burden of proof on buyers to prove their case. After all, eBay does not deduct forced refunds ( or returns) from their GMV, and eBay has no hesitation when it comes to simply stealing the money from the sellers account.

eBay needs to wake up... It's 2014, the vast majority of eBay shoppers have phones with digital cameras. eBay admits that ever increasing numbers of buyers are connecting to eBay using mobile devices, and as such buyers have the ability to snap photos to prove their claims.

The very fact that photos that prove their case would be required from buyers when they file claims would be enough to stop a significant number of false claims and would offer sellers significant protection from eBay's well coached scam artist buyers.

This issue has been brought to eBay's attention time and time again, however, eBay is too busy finding new ways to punish sellers instead of making photos mandatory for claims files in most categories and protecting sellers.


Sellers Find Fault with eBay Money Back Guarantee   Sellers Find Fault with eBay Money Back Guarantee

by: val2525 This user has validated their user name.

Sun Sep 14 23:37:44 2014

YOU HAVE TO CALL EBAY when the claim is filed, especially for SNAD.  The key action is CALL.  You cannot get it closed in your favor by email.  You must CALL.  IF it is a FALSE SNAD, present your side calmly and logically, along with your proof.  You have a good chance of winning the case.  But you HAVE TO CALL.   And call early, as soon as you receive the claim notice.  

Sellers Find Fault with eBay Money Back Guarantee   Sellers Find Fault with eBay Money Back Guarantee

by: val2525 This user has validated their user name.

Sun Sep 14 23:39:03 2014

And let me add, I'm a NO RETURNS SELLER.  eBay HAS backed me up on every  SNAD case so far, as they were either buyer mistake or fraudulent use of SNAD to force return.

Sellers Find Fault with eBay Money Back Guarantee   Sellers Find Fault with eBay Money Back Guarantee

by: RichieC This user has validated their user name.

Mon Sep 15 00:12:42 2014

They're just getting worse everyday! I wish there was another platform that got to so many buyers! It's just that I still make good money there, even though they keep coming up with ways to scam more money out of us and playing favoritism!  

Sellers Find Fault with eBay Money Back Guarantee   Sellers Find Fault with eBay Money Back Guarantee

by: fashionista This user has validated their user name.

Mon Sep 15 00:26:23 2014

@val2525  Ebay may have backed you up, and ruled in your favor, but more than likely they also refunded the buyer without your knowledge.
I've had 2 cases recently which left me scratching my head, one in particular, buyer wrote that they were returning the item because they wanted something different (buyer remorse) she didn't complain about the item or anything, in fact she said it was beautiful. I said return within 14 days (my return policy) no problem.  She returned it 6 weeks later and damaged. I said I couldn't accept it, it was damaged and 6 weeks was past my return.  She wrote several times a day, changed her story, said she received the item damaged etc.  She was relentless. She opened a case. I called Ebay, they closed it in my favor. I never heard from her again. I asked ebay, should I return the item to her? They said no need.  Now this was not the type of person to be out the item and money.  I'm sure ebay refunded her.  This is totally WRONG.
I read somewhere they were doing this.
So it's not that they side with you, they side with both!

Sellers Find Fault with eBay Money Back Guarantee   Sellers Find Fault with eBay Money Back Guarantee

This user has validated their user name. by: Marie

Mon Sep 15 01:48:00 2014

@richieC

Again, this is NOT new.  Ebay has done it for Years.  Just because this seems to be new to you does not make it so.  They just don't advertise that they do it.

@fashionista

Ebay notes on the claim when they refund a buyer.  They don't hide it.  They also send the seller an email saying that they refunded the buyer.

Ebay closed that claim of yours easily as they should have.  Per the Ebay policy, she should not have been able to open the claim in the first place.  They only have 30 days from the latest estimated date of arrival on the purchase or the actual date of arrival whichever comes first.  So Ebay did as they should have done in your case.

Sellers Find Fault with eBay Money Back Guarantee   Sellers Find Fault with eBay Money Back Guarantee

by: fashionista This user has validated their user name.

Mon Sep 15 09:47:51 2014

@Marie
Like I said, I've been selling since 99, gold seller most of the time.
I know ebays policies and they don't match to reality most of the time.
I know this lady would not have let it go if she was out the money and item from her numerous emails. So I'm pretty sure they refunded her.
I've had cases open when item showed delivered, and other instances where (according to ebay ) it shouldn't have been possible.
So, I don't agree with you, they do hide the fact that they're refunding some buyers. This item was under $50, so maybe they have a maximum they do this. I'm sure it's being done without sellers knowledge.

Sellers Find Fault with eBay Money Back Guarantee   Sellers Find Fault with eBay Money Back Guarantee

by: Mr. Me This user has validated their user name.

Mon Sep 15 09:52:47 2014

I wonder if ebay has a money-back-guaranty on their stock?

Sellers Find Fault with eBay Money Back Guarantee   Sellers Find Fault with eBay Money Back Guarantee

by: comet This user has validated their user name.

Mon Sep 15 11:26:48 2014

@VAL---

I would like to know exactly what terms etc you are using when you call--because with very FEW exceptions this has NOT been my experience with ebay AT ALL.

Recently I had a person buy an item that comes in PAIRS.  Now I buy these items in "Bulk" (That does not mean they come tossed in a box or a bag--packed very safely and I have NEVER had a defective one)  I repack the single items into PAIRS and ship them out--they got out very well packed too.

This particular time the guy gets them and waits a few days and then decided that ONE of the two items--doesn't FIT the application!  One does---one does---not.  Hmmmm---

I ask the guy a few questions to make sure he is applying these right and then I go look--the guy ONLY buys items for a DIFFERENT brand of motorcycle than the items he purchased from me---metric vs American!  Hmmmm--

So I CALL ebay.  Only to be triple teamed--Oh yes this buyer is wrong etc and then after TWO CSR's tell you this you get handed off after over an HOUR wait time to a different CSR who proceeds to rip you a new one and tells you that you ARE defective and NO they will NOT consider ANY proof--

And I did this SEVERAL Times--and there is NO "Escalation"  and NO "Appeals" according to ANY of these CSR's.

Even tho they NOW show a section in the RESOLUTION CENTER for photos from buyer OR seller to PROVE these cases--they don't tell you HOW to upload!

So I was forced to not only RANSOM my item by paying for the RETURN SHIPPING I was hit with a NEG--the comment section of which I did manage to get removed but the actual RED MARK not so much.

Even tho I could PROVE that the guy was lying about the sizes of the item I sent him!

And then the guy kept emailing me TAUNTING me that I was forced to PAY him to RETURN the items---

And that I allegedly DID have a RETURN POLICY--I just "Forgot"  about it until ebay FORCED me to use it!

And this guy is not only a Bad Buyer--he is a SELLER too!

So there can't BE a"rival"  to ebay FAST ENOUGH.

Not much does sell and what does is almost not worth it esp if almost EVERY item is declare DEFECTIVE---whether it is brand NEW or used--by these scammer buyers.

Given the "Choice"  I would rather have a good olde fashioned NON PAYING BIDDER---at least the merch is still HERE undamaged and safe.

Sellers Find Fault with eBay Money Back Guarantee   Sellers Find Fault with eBay Money Back Guarantee

by: Tornad0sRul This user has validated their user name.

Mon Sep 15 12:44:07 2014

@ Comet, not only are there bad sellers and bad buyers on EBay, there are bad sellers who are also bad buyers.  If you think about it, sellers will know much more about how to "rip off" a seller than a buyer simply because they have experienced most of the tactics used by dirty buyers.  Because I am a seller I know exactly how I could get something for free on EBay at this very moment if I wanted to.  It's not difficult.

Sellers Find Fault with eBay Money Back Guarantee   Sellers Find Fault with eBay Money Back Guarantee

by: Tornad0sRul This user has validated their user name.

Mon Sep 15 12:52:16 2014

Forcing buyers to provide photos for returns or SNADs is a no-brainer, but EBay has no brain. Considering that EBay, and most companies, have now realized that everyone has their faces planted into their cell phones, and they model their business plans focusing on cell/smart phones, which incidentally ALL have cameras, it is an oxymoron to NOT require photos for returns or SNADs.  It would be extremely difficult to find even one buyer on EBay who doesn't regularly use their cell/smart phone, and all research and statistics can verify that, so why then are buyers allowed to use ridiculous excuses for not proving their SNAD cases?  It's nothing but a purposeful scam on EBay's part to continue to protect the dirty buyers while forcing out the smaller sellers who don't make EBay as much money as the larger sellers.

Sellers Find Fault with eBay Money Back Guarantee   Sellers Find Fault with eBay Money Back Guarantee

by: sasikat9 This user has validated their user name.

Mon Sep 15 15:02:20 2014

I would think this whole subject is going to be moat once Fleecebay opts everyone in the United States to the Hassle Free Returns...

If you have no returns allowed you won't get your item back BUT you will reimburse the buyer. ( FLEECEBAY WILL NO LONGER COMP THE BUYER LIKE BEFORE )

If you have a return policy you will get your item back BUT will also comp the seller the return shipping back to you..

All this is is some shady sham put on sellers by the biggest fleecer in America Ebay..They will no longer be comping buyers..So the bottom line will grow again.

Hasn't anyone every thought of the thousands of dollars they spend comping buyers..NO MORE.

Sellers Find Fault with eBay Money Back Guarantee   Sellers Find Fault with eBay Money Back Guarantee

This user has validated their user name. by: Marie

Mon Sep 15 19:45:46 2014

@sasikat9

You are stating something that simply is not true and your mis-statements may cause harm to some sellers.  The is NO truth whatsoever to what you are saying about sellers that have No Return policies.  I respect that you are upset with Ebay and I further understand that much of what Ebay is doing or has done promotes nothing but problems and bad blood between sellers and Ebay.  I get all that.

But what you are saying has no basis in truth.  I've know plenty of sellers with no return policies that have had to take a return and gotten the product back.

And I've know sellers with a stated return policy to NOT get their items back.

Whether or not you have a full blown return policy has zero to do with what the OP has described.

HFR has zero to do with what the OP describes.

The lack of understanding how the policies work is the easiest and quickest way to get a seller in trouble.  While certainly it is not easy to keep up with Ebay and its constant changes, knowledge, accurate knowledge is the best way to arm yourself.  Not assumptions and presumptions.  That won't benefit you or anyone else that is currently selling on Ebay.

Sellers Find Fault with eBay Money Back Guarantee   Sellers Find Fault with eBay Money Back Guarantee

by: Massachusets Howler This user has validated their user name.

Tue Sep 16 04:36:32 2014

Saying "NO RETURNS" OBVIOUSLY does NOT mean that we do not want our items back!

What kind of THICK SKULLS at ebay do not get this- the fact is, they do get this- they just ACT STUPID to COAX us to refund to get our items returned.
(They KNOW we want our items back).

If a buyer returns a 1 of a kind auction won item, they are paying the shipping and returning it.
This not getting your item back if you do not accept returns is smoke.
MH

Sellers Find Fault with eBay Money Back Guarantee   Sellers Find Fault with eBay Money Back Guarantee

by: Steevo This user has validated their user name.

Sun Sep 21 13:10:12 2014

I think Paypal's days are numbered.  

Most sellers don't want a payment processor who takes orders from anyone except the sender or the receiver of the money.

This is what the California law allows, it is absolutely illegal for Paypal to take orders as to the disposition of money transmitted by a licensed money transmitter like Paypal from anyone else, like ebay inc.

It's right there in the California law.

I called the state agency that regulates them and I could not get them to do anything, their solution was for me to call their call center and file a complaint.  

I was on the phone with the actual state official that regulated them! He didn't want to deal with it. Why should I have to send my complaint through the call center, I have the guy on the phone and I can provide the evidence directly, and I asked for regulatory action.  Nope.  Guy was weak.  That agency should be closed up.

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