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Fri Oct 10 2014 14:42:18

Refusing to Ship to Credit Card Thieves Is Hurting Our eBay DSRs

By: Reader

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Dear Ina,
Our online eBay fine jewelry store has been targeted daily by Miami area credit card thieves since September. They always use the same @outlook.com email domain, always have two or less feedback ratings (usually zero), always use mail box stores, and always purchase the same seven item numbers - all made of solid gold.

When we called PayPal about these fraudulent credit card transactions, the initial direction was to go ahead and ship. But as the totals from the charge backs continued to increase, we received a call from PayPal Fraud asking us not to ship. It was pointed out that if we continued to do so the credit card companies would direct PayPal to no longer work with us.

I then began working with PayPal and eBay to ensure that we minimize our eBay order defects while also minimizing our credit card charge backs. We beefed up the limitations on accepting bid in eBay but the options are of limited assistance in this case. I tried temporarily raising the prices dramatically on the jewelry the thieves were purchasing, but they simply started buying something else made of gold from our store.

eBay directed us to create cases in their Resolution Center under "The buyer and I agree to cancel a transaction" with "Other reason" selected and a comment to the effect of "This is a fraudulent purchase. I am acting as directed by eBay and PayPal."

Every day I come in block the new fake bidder ID, report the new ID, alert PayPal of the new ID and any new box store addresses, and later in the day cancel the transaction as described above so that PayPal and eBay have time to start working on the latest fake buyer ID.

We've also been working hard using my Lean Six Sigma background to bring our DSR defects down as much as possible. eBay collects data for their Seller Dashboard trending data pop up between Tuesday and Thursday of each week in preparation for finalizing the numbers for 20th of the month.

When I came in to the office this morning (Friday, October 10th) I noticed that we had a defect bringing our October defect rate to 2.17%. It is due to a transaction that I cancelled following a process that was outlined to me by eBay customer service.

I called eBay and after two hours of run around and a call dropped due to an issue with their Voice Over IP, Escalations told me that they cannot remove this defect due to their processes and I could not speak with anyone in a higher position of authority.

In effect, I would have been better off shipping this item even though I knew it is another case of credit card fraud. I have two more of these high dollar purchases from overnight to act upon. How can eBay continue to treat its suppliers/customers in this manner and expect to remain viable?

I'm sending this in hopes that someone with connections within eBay corporate (or perhaps with leveraging power with their business partners, PayPal, VISA, MasterCard, AmEx, etc., will act upon it so that sellers will be protected. Also, perhaps someone on this distribution has some advice on how we can tweak our approach further.
Mark




Comments (23) | Permalink

Readers Comments

Refusing to Ship to Credit Card Thieves Is Hurting   Refusing to Ship to Credit Card Thieves Is Hurting

This user has validated their user name. by: Map

Fri Oct 10 15:20:49 2014

Call the Florida Attorney Generals Office and file a complaint reporting the credit card fraud and also lodge a complaint against eBay & Paypal not willing to protect consumers or you.

Also file the same complaint with the Florida Highway Patrol, the FBI & US Postal Inspector if those orders were shipped USPS.

Refusing to Ship to Credit Card Thieves Is Hurting   Refusing to Ship to Credit Card Thieves Is Hurting

This user has validated their user name. by: Marie

Fri Oct 10 15:56:09 2014

Mark

What a Hot Mess.  I am SO SORRY you are having to deal with this.  Ebay is fully capable of connecting those accounts if they are using the same IP address, or physical address.  

Now a couple things.  I hope you are making a list of these buyer names and keeping track of them.  If they go Naru'd as they should in short order, anything they may do to your FB or defect ratings should disappear as Ebay would be closing their accounts for cause.

Now to the defects.  There are some things to know about them when having to deal with what you are dealing with.  Please understand that I do NOT agree with the policy, I'm just going to try and help you deal with the policy as it currently stands to have the least amount of negative impact on you.  That is my only desire.

You are doing the process correctly.  Anytime you FULLY refund a customer for ANY reason, you need to go and file for a cancellation for any reason other than out of stock or sold to another.  

Those are the only two reasons that create a defect just because you filed for a cancellation.

The thing to know here is that the mere fact that you fully refunded the buyer created a defect.  That defect stands until the cancellation is accepted by the buyer or closed by you 7 days later if the buyer does not respond.

So if you have any open cancellation claims, you may be seeing the defect on your dashboard.  But it should drop off after you can close out the cancellation.

For you, filing for cancellation is a necessity for more reason than avoiding a defect you didn't deserve in the first place.  But to get your FVFs back, so you will need to continue to file them.

However, if this is happening this often to you, those 30 cent PP fees are adding up too.  My suggestion would be DO NOT fully refund.  Keep a buck.  

If you don't FULLY refund, it doesn't create a defect [one later removed when the cancellation closes].  Just stop the worry.  And in the process cover your fees.  It's only a buck.  If Ebay or PP ever says something to you, which I doubt they would, say OH WHOOPS I made a mistake.

Now to the overall problem.  Take all those Ebay IDs, addresses, contact info, etc.  And go to your local post office.  File a complaint of mail fraud.  ESPECIALLY on those you actually did ship.  This is a federal offense.  With as many cases as you have, they are going to pay attention to you.  And they can be very effective in cases like this.  Use them.  Go chat with your local postmaster.

I hope this turns around for you very soon.  

Refusing to Ship to Credit Card Thieves Is Hurting   Refusing to Ship to Credit Card Thieves Is Hurting

by: purpleiris This user has validated their user name.
Web Site

Fri Oct 10 17:22:13 2014

I'm a small seller who's intent on getting the attention of those who should be regulating these companies better. So, I have started a petition on change.org at the web site link above, ''Be the Voice for Small Businesses Using eCommerce Service Providers.''

While some might have tried effecting change in the past to no avail, it takes a loud crowd to get attention sometimes. The more people who make their voices heard, the better, and it's usually more effective to make them heard at once.

So, I invite you to make your voices heard via the petition and related survey linked to within the petition. Whether or not you agree with everything stated within the petition, I'm sure you'll agree with at least most of it. So, why not speak up?

The survey is completely anonymous and the petition will only show your name if you opt to have it displayed at the time you sign it. You can also opt to not receive email notifications from change.org. Every time someone signs the petition, an email from change.org gets sent to:

~ Maria Cantwell, Chairwoman, Senate Committee on Small Business & Entrepreneurship
~ Sam Graves, Chairman, House Committee on Small Business
~ National Association of Attorneys General
~ Federal Trade Commission, Bureau of Competition (handles antitrust issues)

I hope it's okay for me to post this here, but we need to bring attention to these matters to those who have the power to do something about it. Even if they try to ignore us, we just need to keep after them because giving up certainly doesn't get us anywhere. If it's not okay to post this here, I will understand if it is removed or if I'm asked to delete it.

Refusing to Ship to Credit Card Thieves Is Hurting   Refusing to Ship to Credit Card Thieves Is Hurting

This user has validated their user name. by: Philip Cohen
Web Site

Fri Oct 10 21:14:01 2014

“When we called PayPal about these fraudulent credit card transactions, the initial direction was to go ahead and ship.”

Them having been warned, only from a clunky operator such as “PreyPal” could you expect such an idiotic response; the trouble is with eBay/PayPal you are dealing with incompetents …

The eBay executive suite—where the incompetent mingle with the disingenuous, the malevolent and the outright criminal, and the just plain stupid ... http://bit.ly/11F2eas

Refusing to Ship to Credit Card Thieves Is Hurting   Refusing to Ship to Credit Card Thieves Is Hurting

by: Xander This user has validated their user name.

Fri Oct 10 22:12:28 2014

@purpleiris

We could not get the link to work nor were we able to use their search to find your petition.

Can you update the contact link for us?

Refusing to Ship to Credit Card Thieves Is Hurting   Refusing to Ship to Credit Card Thieves Is Hurting

by: NetWatch This user has validated their user name.
Web Site

Sat Oct 11 09:33:02 2014

@purpleiris, want to invite you to post your petition on my two FB groups, Former Ebay Sellers and Former Ebay Sellers 2 Open Forum.

Refusing to Ship to Credit Card Thieves Is Hurting   Refusing to Ship to Credit Card Thieves Is Hurting

by: Massachusets Howler This user has validated their user name.

Sun Oct 12 00:01:07 2014

Lagos, Nigeria???
Go ahead and SHIP-LOL!!
MH

Refusing to Ship to Credit Card Thieves Is Hurting   Refusing to Ship to Credit Card Thieves Is Hurting

by: Massachusets Howler This user has validated their user name.

Sun Oct 12 10:01:30 2014

"Experts in Fraud Prevention".

"Sophistocated algorhythmic fraud detection systems."

World-class protections for our sellers!

"We will have a system in place where sellers can easily call in to correct defects".

Go ahead and ship?

(Had a book buyer return a book for 1 folded page edge- feel for ya).

MH
PS: Mark- ask for- the "service request number" and you will not have to explain your story to each rep, otherwise they will tire you out in circles. Good Luck.

Refusing to Ship to Credit Card Thieves Is Hurting   Refusing to Ship to Credit Card Thieves Is Hurting

by: purpleiris This user has validated their user name.
Web Site

Sun Oct 12 10:13:02 2014

Not sure why the link isn't working. I thought it was working before, but here it is in case it doesn't work again:

https://www.change.org/p/u-s-state-attorneys-general-be-
the-voice-for-small-businesses-using-ecommerce-service-providers

I'll
also post it on the Facebook groups mentioned. Thanks for the support -- we all need it. =)

Refusing to Ship to Credit Card Thieves Is Hurting   Refusing to Ship to Credit Card Thieves Is Hurting

by: purpleiris This user has validated their user name.
Web Site

Sun Oct 12 10:23:35 2014

About the Facebook groups, I'm not a former eBay seller and don't want to join just to post the link. If you like, you can go to the eSellers Cafe group where the linked is pinned at the top and share it with your group that way. ;)

Also, I see the link got messed up in my previous post. I don't know what the deal is, but let's try this again. LOL

http://www.change.org/p/u-s-state-attorneys-general-be-the-
voice-for-small-businesses-using-ecommerce-service-providers

Again,
thanks for your support! =)

Refusing to Ship to Credit Card Thieves Is Hurting   Refusing to Ship to Credit Card Thieves Is Hurting

by: gmrichhicks This user has validated their user name.

Sun Oct 12 23:27:36 2014

I had a buyer who had just created his account the day before and had 2 positive feedbacks already.  I notified ebay and paypal that I strongly suspect that it is a fraudulent buyer.  They said ship and I did with signature confirmation.  Item was worth $100.  Lo and behold a chargeback was filed.  This happened about a year ago, and paypal did reimburse me at the time fortunately.

Now days I am scared to even sell any more with all the changes going on.  Ebay and Paypal did not listen to me at all even when I warned them.  

Refusing to Ship to Credit Card Thieves Is Hurting   Refusing to Ship to Credit Card Thieves Is Hurting

by: poetryinpower This user has validated their user name.

Sun Oct 12 23:33:46 2014

I've run into similar problem with eBay's refusal to reverse cancellations that affect my DSR.  

In my case, three buyer initiated cancellations from last year showed up inappropriately and raised my defect rate above 2%.   Clearly the cancellations did not qualify as defects, but eBay customer service refused to examine or change their status.   Despite a clean dashboard, I lost my Top Rated Seller status, costing me a couple of hundred dollars a month.

What's odd and unnerving is that customer service simply refused any higher appeal.

 

Refusing to Ship to Credit Card Thieves Is Hurting   Refusing to Ship to Credit Card Thieves Is Hurting

by: Massachusets Howler This user has validated their user name.

Sun Oct 12 23:46:04 2014

"There will be a seamless appeal process to support sellers"

Same day, call ebay CS: "There is no appeals process".

Thank you for using ebay:-)!
MH
(World-Class Service)

Refusing to Ship to Credit Card Thieves Is Hurting   Refusing to Ship to Credit Card Thieves Is Hurting

This user has validated their user name. by: LasVagueness

Sun Oct 12 23:51:42 2014

NO ONE SHOULD HAVE TO GO THROUGH ALL THIS TROUBLE (yes, I am shouting)!!! Hours on the phone calling eBay custserv? Hours on the phone calling PayPal and the CC fraud division? Filing a claim with the Florida Attorney Generals Office? Making lists of buyers user IDs and names? Chatting with your local Postmaster (let me know how that goes because I can’t even get Consumer Affairs to give me a straight answer)? Knowing which hoops to jump through and in exactly which order to avoid defects? Wearing out the Resolution Center button? Wearing out your immune system and serenity? Is this what selling on eBay has come to? Anyone?

Refusing to Ship to Credit Card Thieves Is Hurting   Refusing to Ship to Credit Card Thieves Is Hurting

by: Casmige This user has validated their user name.

Mon Oct 13 00:07:07 2014

Re: LasVagueness  Comments in ALL CAPS??

I Totally agree.

Every-time I call & spend HOURS holding, I record the Agents name & repeatedly inform them just how many times I've been transferred & how long I've been on the phone trying to get some "Customer Service & Support".  I then politely remind them that I am a BUYER OF EBAY SERVICES & that eBay is the ultimate "Seller" & that If I treated Client-buyers on the forum the way eBay treats me as a Buyer-Client of eBay Services, that eBay would absolutely shut my seller account down if not out-right ban me from the forum.

As to the Petition...it's NOT Anonymous....it can't be.  yeah, you can keep your name from being published as a "Signer" on Change-Org, but the petition itself is NOT Anonymous....I'm #9 singer but I'm guessing that's why there's not a lot of signatories.  

Refusing to Ship to Credit Card Thieves Is Hurting   Refusing to Ship to Credit Card Thieves Is Hurting

by: Tiffee Jasso This user has validated their user name.

Mon Oct 13 00:25:42 2014

I think you had better find another place to sell your jewelry. Thieves have your name and number. How you can continue to operate this way is beyond me? The good news is Ebay ought to be putting an end to your selling life and misery due to defects,  sooner than later.

Refusing to Ship to Credit Card Thieves Is Hurting   Refusing to Ship to Credit Card Thieves Is Hurting

by: JTA This user has validated their user name.

Mon Oct 13 03:43:41 2014

I was advised to file a police report for the same issue. There's an "internet crime" division that is a special unit designated to fraudulent problems such as this one.  

Refusing to Ship to Credit Card Thieves Is Hurting   Refusing to Ship to Credit Card Thieves Is Hurting

This user has validated their user name. by: Shop and Ship

Mon Oct 13 09:08:49 2014

If you believe you are the victim of an Internet crime, or if you are aware of an attempted crime, you can file a complaint on http://www.ic3.gov/faq/default.aspx

Your mail fraud complaint to USPS should be to the Postal Inspector, and not to a postal retail clerk or a mail carrier.

https://postalinspectors.uspis.gov/

Apparently you have a street delivery address. Even if it is a mail drop, you should contact the fraud division of the local prosecutor's offices as well as the local police, sheriff, or marshal's office with jurisdiction over the district or zone where the mail drop is located.

http://www.miamidade.gov/police/

http://www.fraudguides
.com/report/florida.asp

Meanwhile,
you will need to refrain from terminating the thieves' efforts while law enforcement reviews your complaint. Perhaps you could substitute a trinket for the solid gold, refuse to deliver to post office boxes, require proof of ID and signature upon delivery, etc.?

Good luck - fraudsters are slippery eel to catch and stay caught. With any luck others are also complaining to authorities about these scammers. Every little bit of info helps tighten the noose. Take comfort in knowing that federal prisoners do most if not all of their sentenced time in custody.  

Refusing to Ship to Credit Card Thieves Is Hurting   Refusing to Ship to Credit Card Thieves Is Hurting

by: Gina This user has validated their user name.

Mon Oct 13 12:52:58 2014

more proof that crime pays, as long as you have shits at eBay telling you to ship to KNOWN criminals!!

Refusing to Ship to Credit Card Thieves Is Hurting   Refusing to Ship to Credit Card Thieves Is Hurting

This user has validated their user name. by: Shop and Ship

Mon Oct 13 12:54:49 2014

@MARK - PS: you should also contact corporate for the mail box franchise and advise them of the scams being run under its logo. Google Street View will show the name of the franchise even if the delivery address is unclear from the shipping label.  

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