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Mon July 4 2011 09:18:44

eBay Seller DSRs at Risk Thanks to PayPal Delays

By: Ina Steiner

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Dear Ina,

On July 1, I experienced yet another "glitch" with delayed PayPal payment notifications after receiving a PayPal payment email a full 5 hours after the payment was actually made.

Annoyed because I missed being able to ship the buyers order based on terms posted in my listing ( I offer same day shipping when payments are received before 11:00 am), I called PayPal customer support.

The agent I spoke with stated that PayPal was aware that notices were running 5 to 6 hours late and that the issue had been ongoing for 2 days. I was struck by three points which demonstrate the indifference and causal disregard that eBay and PayPal has for their sellers.

First was the lack of any announcement either on PayPal or on eBay advising sellers of a prolonged lag between the time buyers complete payments and sellers are sent email notices. Common sense would dictate that when a significant outage such as payment notification emails are not being sent on time ( and had not been for more than 48 hours ), announcements should be posted on PayPal and even eBay advising sellers to check their accounts for any recent payments.

Second was the complete lack of concern regarding how sellers can be negatively impacted when PayPal fails to perform it's responsibility and notify sellers on a timely basis.

Third was the fact that the issue was happening before the start of a holiday weekend, whereby many sellers could potentially be unable to process orders and ship before carriers close for the long holiday weekend, resulting in even longer delays.

Sure the agent apologized for the inconvenience yadda...yadda...yadda.

An apology from a PayPal Customer Support Agent in no way compensates for the issues sellers face when they fail to deliver service as promised in their listings.

eBay knows sellers are left to suffer lower DSR scores because of eBay/PayPal system failures which is fine with the company, and may even point to a deliberate delay given the timing of the system failure. Obviously, eBay increases their fee revenue every time a seller loses their hard earned discounts. Clearly there is a financial incentive for eBay/PayPal to turn a blind eye to the issue or delaying repairs.

Glitches such as this highlight the deficiencies of eBay's DSR system, whereby small sellers effected by an eBay/PayPal service glitch are left hanging to suffer the wrath of buyers without recourse.

Given that small sellers are only allowed 2 low DSR scores before they suffer the loss of their Top Rated Status and 20 % discounts, there should be some form of protection offered by eBay when sellers are unable to meet their commitments to buyers because of an eBay/PayPal system failure. Since some sellers could be effected by system outages in the form of account restriction or suspension, eBay/PayPal's lack of urgency is appalling and unconscionable.

eBay wonders why sellers perception is that eBay deliberately constructs road blocks to prevent success thereby setting their sellers for failure. They need look no further than their onerous DSR rating system and how their own inability to maintain their internal infrastructure in consistently working order leads to sellers being hit with low ratings.

eBay demands unparalleled excellence from sellers. At the same time, eBay clearly fails to execute at the same level of performance where sellers are concerned.

Given all the fee increases and the recent imposition of Final Value fees on shipping costs, sellers should be entitled to a reasonable expectation that systems will work as they should and enable them to perform to the exacting standards eBay demands.

One solution would be to issue automatic 5 stars for shipping time for every transaction which took place during the system outage.

Another possible solution would be to make the thresholds for low ratings more reasonable by increasing the number of low ratings a smaller seller can receive.

The most effective and fair solution would be to eliminate the DSR system in it's entirety since 2 out of 4 categories can be negatively influenced by circumstances the seller is powerless to control. This renders the DSR system completely useless as ratings do not fully and completely reflect actual seller performance.

Signed,
eBay Sets Me Up To Fail



Comments (26) | Permalink

Readers Comments

Perminate Link for eBay Seller DSRs at Risk Thanks to PayPal Delays   eBay Seller DSRs at Risk Thanks to PayPal Delays

by: Paul

Mon Jul 4 10:23:05 2011

Excellent post :-) Just the reason why I closed my eBay store and will not buy or sell on eBay..I sell on Bonanza and have not had any problems with Paypal- So far :-)

Perminate Link for eBay Seller DSRs at Risk Thanks to PayPal Delays   eBay Seller DSRs at Risk Thanks to PayPal Delays

by: MR ME

Mon Jul 4 10:32:56 2011

The whole DSR system is so screwed up , with sellers having to "walk on eggs". "jump through hoops" and always "look over their shoulder" to avoid the dreaded DSR "ding"....... If I wanted to perform such "tricks" I would have joined the circus !
eBay is no longer a "fun" place to sell, and due to all of the ridiculous fees, no longer profitable!

Perminate Link for eBay Seller DSRs at Risk Thanks to PayPal Delays   eBay Seller DSRs at Risk Thanks to PayPal Delays

by: JB

Mon Jul 4 10:38:59 2011

I am willing to bet they notified their diamond sellers of the delay. The diamonds are the only sellers eBay/PP are worried about keeping happy. everything else is just noise to this company.

Perminate Link for eBay Seller DSRs at Risk Thanks to PayPal Delays   eBay Seller DSRs at Risk Thanks to PayPal Delays

by: Y.D.D.D

Mon Jul 4 11:40:26 2011

"I sell on Bonanza and have not had any problems with Paypal- So far :-)"

Me no problems either, cause nothing sells on the Bonz or any other place for me, unfortunately only ebay still

Perminate Link for eBay Seller DSRs at Risk Thanks to PayPal Delays   eBay Seller DSRs at Risk Thanks to PayPal Delays

by: exdwh This user has validated their user name.

Mon Jul 4 11:46:12 2011

While I certainly believe that eBay/PayPal e-mail notifications can be delayed, what about the paid status in your eBay view?

Surely your online PayPal activity log didn't take hours to show the payment(s)?

Any experienced seller is aware of this problem and will know to check their PayPal account if same-day shipping is promised.

--David

Perminate Link for eBay Seller DSRs at Risk Thanks to PayPal Delays   eBay Seller DSRs at Risk Thanks to PayPal Delays

by: Do what I say, not what I do

Mon Jul 4 12:19:08 2011

Ebay's Detailed Star Rating given by their actual customers (sellers)

Description 1 star

They have revised their UA so many times over the last 3 years it is impossible to keep up and know what is current. They tell us one thing one day and the next it's changed once again.

Communication 1 star

There really isn't any communication except for a few after the fact announcements. Anything that effects sellers financially is swept under the rug.

Shipping Time 1 Star

Sellers are still waiting in the fourth year the third year promise of the year of the seller.

Shipping & Handling Charges
1 star

Double dipping on shipping fees on top of all the other high fees. Do I need to say more?



Perminate Link for eBay Seller DSRs at Risk Thanks to PayPal Delays   eBay Seller DSRs at Risk Thanks to PayPal Delays

This user has validated their user name. by: Philip Cohen
Web Site

Mon Jul 4 16:15:55 2011

Consider: If they wasted their time and resources sending everyone an email advising of this problem it would put PreyPal "paid" notices back a further hour.

The OP's lucky then got even an appology, for what it's worth—nothing!

All anyone needs to know about the clunky PayPal, at:
http://forums.auctionbytes.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=165263

What all buyers should know about the criminal activities of eBay, at:
http://forums.auctionbytes.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=23540

Enron / eBay / PayPal / Donahoe: Dead Men Walking.

Perminate Link for eBay Seller DSRs at Risk Thanks to PayPal Delays   eBay Seller DSRs at Risk Thanks to PayPal Delays

This user has validated their user name. by: Ric

Mon Jul 4 17:56:34 2011

@ David

Does PayPal charge fees for the service they provide? You bet your arse they do.

Sellers are paying fees to PayPal for services related to each transaction, these services include timely notifications. Sellers should not have to play hide and seek for notifications which they are paying for with the fees which PayPal charges.

For the high fees which PayPal charges, they have an obligation to provide their fee paying customers consistent, reliable service service. An ethical, honest and transparent company would notify it's customers when prolonged system break downs interfere with the delivery of those services, regardless of severity especially when the issue is ongoing for days at a time.

The fact that payment status may be available alternatively is irrelevant.

The point is that services which sellers are paying for are not being delivered consistently, that eBay/PayPal does not take outages seriously, that eBay/PayPal consistently attempts to conceal key system outages by refusing to make announcements, and that the company does not care about the negative impact those outages may cause sellers.

eBay/PayPal demands perfection from smaller sellers, but is clearly unable or unwilling to deliver the same quality of service to it's fee paying customers.

Perminate Link for eBay Seller DSRs at Risk Thanks to PayPal Delays   eBay Seller DSRs at Risk Thanks to PayPal Delays

by: Jack

Mon Jul 4 21:04:34 2011

@David,

 I had the same problem as the OP. I knew to check my paypal account to get the address, but my 30 day history was completely blank. I knew that a buyer had paid, but there was no way to get his address. I called paypal and they verified that they were having an ongoing problem. I finally was able to obtain the shipping address from the customer service rep. The e-mail from paypal telling me of his payment, did not arrive for over 12 hours. The payment notification e-mails stayed delayed for several hours over the next few days. However, my paypal history finally reappeared, so I could check the addresses that way.

Perminate Link for eBay Seller DSRs at Risk Thanks to PayPal Delays   eBay Seller DSRs at Risk Thanks to PayPal Delays

by: exdwh This user has validated their user name.

Mon Jul 4 22:31:37 2011

@Ric,

Where in the PayPal agreement do they guarantee access to transaction history or state a specific timeframe for e-mail notifications? I don't think it's in there. The same is true for just about any service. My bank, utility, or credit card company is no different. My power goes off. My cable drops out.

My point is that if you know eBay/PayPal have a history of problems, then you should use every means possible to verify the integrity of your business records.

eBay/PayPal are not going to change. This means the seller must either adapt or choose different service providers. Maybe 1-day handling is not realistic. Even beyond eBay/PayPal, stuff happens. I specify 2-day handling and still manage a 4.98 DSR without eBay's automatic 5.  

--David

Perminate Link for eBay Seller DSRs at Risk Thanks to PayPal Delays   eBay Seller DSRs at Risk Thanks to PayPal Delays

by: buck efay

Mon Jul 4 22:52:03 2011

Ebay manages about 73% customer satisfaction, which has dropped from over 80% before Donahoe. Yet they demand 99% perfection from sellers. You cannot win with this company, so why waste time? It is a system BUILT to cause failure to STEAL your hard earned discount. Once you understand that John Donahoe's only goal is to get "more wallet" from the SUCKERS that stick around, you will accept this fact & stop whining about it.

Perminate Link for eBay Seller DSRs at Risk Thanks to PayPal Delays   eBay Seller DSRs at Risk Thanks to PayPal Delays

This user has validated their user name. by: Ric

Mon Jul 4 23:52:09 2011

@David

If you complain to your bank for not receiving a statement, do they cancel your account? No. They apologize and bend over to accommodate you because they value your business.

If you complain to your cable company about a service outage, does the cable company turn around and declare that you no longer meet the standards required to receive their programming? No. They will however issue you a credit for the period your service was out.

When your power goes out and you complain, does your utility company respond that you are no longer worthy of being their customer and disconnect you? Does your utility company bill you for the power you would have used during an outage? Of course not.

You state ''eBay/PayPal are not going to change.'' I agree.

I agree, sellers can anticipate eBay corp will continue to set unrealistic standards and demand 5 star seller performance while at the same time offering a poorly maintained and decaying platform with 1 star service, expecting sellers to suck it up.

1 Day handling and same day service are achievable when the systems are up and running as sellers are accustomed to.

Perhaps eBay needs to come out and admit that their platform is not suited to sellers that want to build their business by offering same day or 1 day turn around of customer orders because eBay can not maintain their IT infrastructure consistently.

If or when a sellers performance slips due to eBay corps inept system management/maintenence, eBay is still the only company that will downgrade, restrict and eventually suspend a paying customer even though the root cause can be attributed to the company's own internal failures. Should the seller appeal eBay's decision regarding their account status, they can expect zero accommodation because the company simply does not value individual small sellers.

Perminate Link for eBay Seller DSRs at Risk Thanks to PayPal Delays   eBay Seller DSRs at Risk Thanks to PayPal Delays

This user has validated their user name. by: permacrisis
Web Site

Tue Jul 5 09:46:29 2011

Float, float float that cigarette.

Float float float, until you float yourself to death.

(-with apologies to Tex Williams)

Perminate Link for eBay Seller DSRs at Risk Thanks to PayPal Delays   eBay Seller DSRs at Risk Thanks to PayPal Delays

by: Disclosure

Tue Jul 5 15:02:34 2011

exdwh (David) knows what he is talking about. He works for eBay

Perminate Link for eBay Seller DSRs at Risk Thanks to PayPal Delays   eBay Seller DSRs at Risk Thanks to PayPal Delays

by: Moonwishes
Web Site

Tue Jul 5 15:04:49 2011

Thankfully I caught on quickly to the glitch and was able to ship my outgoing items on time. I also was able to notify other sellers on ecrater so that they would double check all PP orders if the notification didn't arrive quickly. Sure I know that PP should have announced to the world that they were having problems but they don't and never do, so why not be the person who lets your friends on discusion forums know about the problem?

Perminate Link for eBay Seller DSRs at Risk Thanks to PayPal Delays   eBay Seller DSRs at Risk Thanks to PayPal Delays

by: Disclosure

Tue Jul 5 15:06:46 2011

dev-forums.ebay.com/thread.jspa?messageID=500026266
members.ebay.co
m/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=exdwh

Perminate Link for eBay Seller DSRs at Risk Thanks to PayPal Delays   eBay Seller DSRs at Risk Thanks to PayPal Delays

by: Phil DeBasquet

Tue Jul 5 15:29:53 2011

Promising one day shipping is putting your own Testes in a vise. Why not monitor your ebay and paypal accounts if you are in that situation? hard to feel your pain when there are many ways to not wind up in that situation....

Perminate Link for eBay Seller DSRs at Risk Thanks to PayPal Delays   eBay Seller DSRs at Risk Thanks to PayPal Delays

This user has validated their user name. by: Anonymous Annie

Tue Jul 5 17:03:28 2011

@Phil gloats: ''hard to feel your pain when there are many ways to not wind up in that situation''

Oh, how charming.

What we have here is a situation where eBay/PP are *failing* to provide the level of service that Sellers depend on. They have ALSO failed by not notifying Sellers of the problem.

Next we have trolls and provocateurs who wander in here to proclaim that somehow it's OUR FAULT... and that the SELLERS are to blame for the incompetence of eBay/PP.

Give me a break!

It's always easier to blame the victim than to accept responsibility... even when the blame-game is so absurd that it borders on insanity.

I imagine that if ''Phil'' worked for Goodyear Tires (instead of eBay/PP) he would be telling the owners of defective tires that they should have been unmounting their tires from the rims and conducting regular inspections of the inner tire surfaces.

Phil would lament how hard it was for him to feel any compassion for those people. After all, if they are in a position where they rely on their tires, then it's their OWN FAULT for not visually inspecting the inside (and for not having FOUR SPARES in the trunk) and if they had only done these ''reasonable'' things, then they wouldn't find themselves in a bad situation.

The comments from eBay/PP employee ''David'' are just as transparent... and just as disgusting.

Perminate Link for eBay Seller DSRs at Risk Thanks to PayPal Delays   eBay Seller DSRs at Risk Thanks to PayPal Delays

by: Cloud

Tue Jul 5 17:36:32 2011

I have an idea, why not just sign into your PayPal account to see who paid by 11:00. It takes only a few moments. 5 hours for an email to arrive is nothing. I've seen it take weeks.

Perminate Link for eBay Seller DSRs at Risk Thanks to PayPal Delays   eBay Seller DSRs at Risk Thanks to PayPal Delays

by: Sylvia Fischer

Tue Jul 5 19:39:37 2011

I just wanted to share my experience with dealing with
malicious competitors on eBay.  After weeks of writing letters and getting
caned reponses like ''offer free shipping'' I finally think I have a
breakthrough
on getting with a real Live person on the telephone. First of all, I called
just before lunch
on the Sunday, before July 4th. Got right through. Excellent service, so
far.
Spoke w/ the CSR rep who, of course, was very sweet. My problem was
a malicious feedback left by a competitor/seller on a two purchases he made
from me a few weeks apart. He left positive feedback(s) but with all 1's on
DSR ratings in all
categories.  As a result of his feedback/DSRs alone I am suddenly loosing
my top rated seller discount.


So I left the information.

(1) Positive feedback with extremely low DSRs.
(2) Competitor > malicious feedback.
(3) The feedback has his business name prominently in it.
(4) That despite low scores for Shipping Time the items were
shipped on the same day as payment, received two days later.
Total time between payment and receipt was less than 72 hours.
(5) Probably he has done this numerous times, please check.

Total call time less than 30 minutes, four short holds. Assured that my
complaint/request was being forwarded to a supervisor for proper
investigation and that they would get back to me asap.


Just FYI- I sell basically the same stuff with username LTCEBJ. My
S&H is clearly stated and I never need to be asked to always give a hefty
and fair combined item discount. I leave feedback immediately upon
payment and have item in the mail the next day. Buyer gets invoice,
then shipping notice, then personal email thanking them plus a
discussion on the DSR ratings and a special request that if there is
any problem at all that makes the buyer consider less than a five in
any category, to please contact me first.  Other than from this dishonorable
competitor I usually get all fives with an occasional four on my DSRs.

I really hope that these will be removed and I can get my 20% discount back

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