Reaction to eBay Chargeback Shows Level of Seller Distrust

by: lessthanthreerecords

Doesn't sound like the buyer is lying. With no tracking, it would be all too easy for them to get the item for free if they were dishonest and wanted to take advantage. If that was the case, why would they go on record and say they got the item? While I've never experienced this exact scenario, I have experienced various situations in which eBay's automated system took some action that made no sense and made it look like it was initiated by the buyer or seller.

by: RL15

and ebay gets to keep the chargeback fee..chaching more wings for walkers west

by: theebayguy

Had the same problem in the UK.
Contacted a buyer with the problem only to hear "what problem, they didn't do anything and they got their item and was happy with it" ! (they even thought at first I was trying some sort of scam as the message was so out of place)    ....you then contact ebay who won't listen to what you say, won't take the buyer's message into account, and won't even contact the buyer to check if there was a problem.   In the past I've been fobbed off with GDPR rules mean they can't investigate or contact the buyer (?!?) and they have also hinted maybe the buyer did not start the ball rolling but possibly the credit card company did when they saw a "suspicious buy" on the account.
Either way ebay is not actively doing enough to sort this out.

by: NullApps

As a seller PayPal did this to me once as an eBay seller back in 2006.  PayPal simply told us the bank disputed the charge and immediately refunded the buyer in full.  PayPal said we did not follow the seller protection policy (I forget what it was but probably just never qualified in the first place since most transactions didn't back then) so they ruled in their favor.  When I contacted the buyer they were confused and just resent the payment.

by: Gumball

We need legislation that tells the big venues, credit card companies, and banks what they can or cannot do. In other words, either put up reliable service or shut down. I would not put it past the venues or the payment processors to generate disputes that never happened to get more revenue. After all, where is the paperwork or accountability? The seller is not even told which card company or which bank. Generate a million fake disputes and collect millions off the backs of seller who have no recourse or say in the matter. We all know there are no ethics in big business today. I have already seen fake bills come out of my accounts from one of the big dot com companies, and one insurance company in Deleware that took out  almost $400 for a life insurance policy. Fortunately they both used my  Paypal  account. I called Paypal as soon as I saw the emails come in, and they blitzed the charge and sent me a new Paypal card, so they could not charge me again. I told the Paypal rep that the internet was full of angry people stating they had been ripped off by the same bogus insurance company. We had just used the card at a hotel, and so I imagine someone there sold the information.  

by: HardWorkingSeller

This sometimes happens when a credit card is lost or compromised, which if my experience is anything to go by, is very frequently.

The customer or the bank is too lazy to go through the transactions carefully so any that aren't obvious such as ones labeled with a generic 'eBay' tag are queried in bulk as being unrecognized.  Sometimes I think that the bank just disputes everything that's not yet locked as it's less work just to place the burden of proof onto the merchants.

I don't have a lot of confidence that eBay would defend such a claim well on my behalf so in that position I would try and reach out to the buyer to get them to confirm in writing that the transaction is legit - and ideally by contacting their CC company.  I would also try and get them to agree to be re-invoiced directly if the chargeback is approved, which it probably will be.

Even if the customer does end up paying you, you'll probably be out the chargeback fee.

And yes, the system needs to be changed.

by: bpm

I recently had my first and only chargeback on Ebay - a buyer bought an item in July 2021, paid, I sent it; a week later they bought another item, paid, and immediately requested cancellation of both items they'd bought. Told him I couldn't cancel the first one as it had been sent (to the US, I am in the UK); he replied he'd just refuse delivery (so leaving me £30 out on postage for a £30 item - thanks!).

4 months later he raised a chargeback on the second item as 'unrecognized'. I send everything tracked, so obviously I'd win the case. I uploaded the tracking, and 4 weeks later Ebay told me I'd lost the case - but purely out the goodness of their hearts they'd refunded the scammer buyer out of their pocket, not mine.

You cant lose a chargeback if you have tracking to the address on the order, but I lost - I think Ebay make no effort at all to defend against a chargeback - none, not the slightest attempt at a defence; it costs them too much. If tracking is provided, Ebay refund the CB. Commercially it makes sense for them to do this, and now I think they are exploring the possibilities of extra income from totally spurious chargebacks. They will never be caught. Any thoughts, anyone?

by: pace306

These issues happen because of the inherent conflict of interest.

When a platform is also the cc processor, they have zero incentive to care about a seller.

They make so much money on holds, chargebacks, and other fees (and pushing you into that magical bad seller %5 tax) - that there’s no reason to do anything.

There’s no “seller advocate “ position in any of these companies (and please dont say Griff)(he’s only advocates for himself), so there’s no push back

They make sellers work to get back what’s rightfully theirs, and lie cheat and steal to keep as much as possible

There’s zero transparency and it’s wrong.

But eBay et all are all “too big to fail” so no law enforcement person ever cares.

by: zeek6228

I recently had an idiot file an unauthorized chargeback 2 days after I shipped the item. I assumed it was a scam and since it was still in transit, I was able to get the package intercepted by USPS and returned.

When the package was returned, it was scanned delivered. Buyer contacts me saying "it shows delivered but I didn't get it"

Case decided in buyers favor.

by: Mazdaman

We had a fellow recently who claimed he never got the package - but he sent photos of a perfectly, carefully peeled Priority label that had even pulled the red ink  from the USPS Small Flat-Rate box we used!  Even the jagged ends of the tape used to hold the label on the box weren't torn or folded, making us at the Postmaster at his P.O. Box's location suspect he'd peeled it off and stuck it on something else.  He sent multiple photos, each having our label stuck on something different.  The label even says "Small FR Box" on it, so it COULDN'T have been from that grungy brown cardboard box he tried to show us!  Some folks have no shame.

by: Rexford

Could be bot driven. When eBay bots don't detect a tracking number they might be acting on it.   I find it downright fascinating that a buyer might actually receive their item and be happy with it, not file a case, but then eBay potentially swooping in and collecting the money due to the fact that tracking was not uploaded.   And eBay keeping the cash.  (Not saying that this is happening, but nothing eBay does surprises me.)     And if they are doing this that would be a clear case of fraud.

Bots and algorithms are out of control.

by: AddyUp

The lack of effort here is criminal. All it would take would be eBay/PayPal or the bank concerned to actually phone the person raising the dispute and ask a couple of questions.

I expect it would show most reasons for the chargeback were completely false.

by: teufelwolf

We have seen an uptick in charge back fraud. It very difficult to win a chargeback especially if dealing with them is not your primary job. The process is confusing even when it is just Merchant and Processor. Then you add Ebay or Amazon and its even more of a mess.
Any chargeback based on product quality is hard / impossible to win as it is subjective, and shipping claims, tracking is not considered proof of delivery unless you can get the buyer on record admitting they got it

by: Marie

All the larger sites would have the same conflict of interest as Ebay, Etsy, Amazon, Mercari, Poshmark, Offerup, etc., all have similar programs.

To me the buyer is either confused or maybe their partner didn't recognize the charge.  But Ebay has NO CONTROL over creating a Chargeback that can ONLY come from the buyer and their Credit Card company.

Without the tracking, it sounds like something Ebay would end up having to do is refunding the buyer on a Chargeback.  The seller can't prove the item was delivered.  

As to the buyer saying they didn't get a refund.  Chances are they are being truthful on this because the refund would NOT show on their account immediately.  It can take up to 30 days for it to show up, so it is simply too soon for them to know one way or the other.  My bet is they will be getting the credit on their account in the next couple of weeks.

This can end up being a costly test for the Seller however.  When a seller loses a Chargeback, just like they did in Paypal, Ebay charges a $20 fee.

by: iheartjacksparrow

Luckily I use Stripe for my purchases on eCrater which is a serious payment processor, has a dedicated chargeback department, and looks out for its sellers. I've had two chargebacks and won them both because the buyers were scammers and I proved both packages were delivered to the customer.  

by: pace306

@marie

That all the sites have these types of conflicts on interests- doesn’t excuse their bad behaviors

eBay may not be better or worse then anyone else but that doesn’t excuse them either.

eBay was in a big rush to spend huge amounts of money to play cc, and push everyone- include those of us who were not interested- into MP. Fine. But if you are going to profit off all the new cash you are raking in, take some responsibility when things go wrong.

Sellers should never be charged $1, if they did the right thing. If they didn’t - then the seller is at fault.

eBay has all the tracking info - sellers should not have to be involved at all - just informed

I’m sorry if it costs them time or money - as they say to us - “it’s part of doing business “.

Each of those companies DOES NEED a real seller advocate- but none of them have one.

It’s easier to do nothing and then dump it on the seller - it’s %100 wrong.

Get a handle on your buyers - as you do with your sellers. Lie about non receiving an item and get kicked from the platform for fraud.

“Put that in your TOS and smoke it” (eBay not you)

by: Marie

Oh Pace

I wasn't "excusing" any site.  You will have to tell me where I said that as I just can't find it.

I don't know how much of a "rush" Ebay was in for MP since it is now about 4 years old.  Or started with a small amount of sellers about 4 years ago.  I'm sure there was planning before they brought any sellers into the program.  I'm just not sure what you are trying to say on this.

by: Snapped

“ All the larger sites would have the same conflict of interest…”

But teacher, shouldn’t the question be focused ON that COI itself, no matter the perp?  Because otherwise the implication is that since this malfeasance (?) is ‘industry standard’, more ‘tolerance’ is warranted.  Some might even read grounds for an ‘excuse’ in there somewhere.  

But - what level/type of COI actually IS…excusable?  

That same question, incidentally, still stands no matter what warp factor was set on eBay’s bridge deck.  As for it’s eventual ready-or-bust mass roll-out, recall that sellers were required to volunteer for this indentured servitude of their funds without being allowed to read the contract first.  It goes without saying that such opacity requires careful ‘planning’.  

Like for what to do about this: “.. Ebay has NO CONTROL over creating a Chargeback…”

Again, that’s in the text.  The point here is that they DO have FULL CONTROL of how to respond to it.  And they DID wrest control over all parts of the payment ‘on behalf’ of the seller, who pays a FEE for that ‘service’ and who themselves now have NO CONTROL of ANY of the possible responses to it.  And more importantly, over what eBay setting THEIR CHOICE of heading will cost that seller.

“ When a seller loses a Chargeback, just like they did in Paypal, Ebay charges a $20 fee.”

Right, chapter three, post apocalypse.  But up to that, it is NOT exactly “just like” PayPal, is it?  PayPal would let the seller respond to it with relevant transaction details and deny the chargeback when feasible.  The same details, as was pointed out by a classmate a few posts ago, that eBay is already in FULL CONTROL over hook or by ‘crook’ so to speak.  Because they TOOK it.  So they should OWN it.  If they choose not to ‘fight’ it’s THEIR choice.  Seemed pretty clear.  Spot on actually.

Don’t keep making the mistake that everybody is trying to mutiny the good ship eBay.  We know there are others out there ‘just as or worse’ corrupt at the helm.  

It’s the corruption that’s the enemy.  eBay is just the headliner here.  Again.

Interesting side note - eBay’s recent ‘pulse taking’ doesn’t seem to have any questions about how sellers ‘feel’ about MP.  Imagine that.

by: Marie

@Snapped

"But teacher, shouldn’t the question be focused ON..."  I'm not trying to be your "teacher" or anyone else's.  I posted my observation.  As usual you take exception with it, that is all there is to it.  It is old and tiring for sure.

"PayPal would let the seller respond to it with relevant transaction details and deny the chargeback when feasible."  That is news to me.  I too used PP for a couple of decades and I was NEVER able to "deny" a chargeback.  I am however glad to hear you were able to find a way to do that.

As to supplying information on a Chargeback.  PP's program is much better on that than MP, however you can submit info on the Chargeback if you wish.  In MP they currently only allow one document, so I suggest before submitting anything that you create a MS Word document or something like that and then attach it to the Chargeback AFTER you enter every piece of info you want showing in the Chargeback.

Things like emails, tracking, delivery confirmations, pictures, commentary by you and whatever evidence you deem is appropriate for the Chargeback.  Then you attach the one document to the Chargeback that contains all the info you want on record.

"Don’t keep making the mistake that everybody is trying to mutiny the good ship eBay. "  Again not sure why I'm the one deemed to be making a "mistake".  I'm very much aware that most of the strongest voices on this site against Ebay are current sellers of Ebay with a couple mixed in that left Ebay long ago but they still stay up on the rules, as they are ever changing.

I don't find that unusual that Ebay isn't asking how sellers "feel" about MP.  The complaints about MP are not all that different than they were back when they made Paypal mandatory.  It is a huge change and most humans simply don't adjust well to huge changes easily.  That coupled with Ebay's head in the sand attitude over communicating details about MP to sellers just further fuels the fires.  Then the icing is the lack of acceptable Customer Service on MP which is beyond deplorable on so many levels.