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Sun Nov 15 2020 15:14:58

Woe to the eBay Seller Whose Family Member Misbehaves

By: Reader

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Dear Ina,
My wife and I have been eBay members for over 20 years, have 800+ positive feedbacks in each of our two accounts, no neutrals or negative feedbacks. But recently eBay slapped selling restrictions on our accounts for an "association" with an account of our son, who have had issues with a few buyers. 

We don't know the details of that conflict and have nothing to do with it. The only possible association between his and our eBay activities could be that once a year before Christmas he and his family comes to visit us and he had logged into eBay from his laptop into his account.

We don't share passwords, bank or PayPal accounts, current address, phone numbers or anything else that qualifies to be an "association". He lived with us years ago when studying (at college).  Other than name and that very old residence information there is nothing to associate us on the eBay.

The eBay message about restrictions cited a "POSSIBILITY of circumventing" of eBay selling rules, without any attempt to find out if any such activity is actually taking place.

I have had an online chat with an eBay restrictions appeal team member, described all of the above and was assured that the restriction will be lifted within 5 to 10 minutes. It did not happen yet after two days.

I wonder how legal are this kind of eBay restriction practices in terms of  presumptions of innocence until proven otherwise. I have read about similar stories online and failed attempts to resolve the issue by appealing.

Being in our 60s we are selling just a few to several items per month that we don't need for whatever reason. It is not affecting us money wise. Also the items that we sell are completely different from what our son has in his eBay store.

So what are we guilty of and why it is impossible for eBay to determine that the association is highly unlikely?

I would appreciate your comment about this situation and, possibly, highlight this issue to the public in general.

Best regards,
Vladimir

Comments (21) | Leave Comment | Permalink
Readers Comments

Perminate Link for Woe to the eBay Seller Whose Family Member Misbeha   Woe to the eBay Seller Whose Family Member Misbeha

by: Snapped This user has validated their user name.

Sun Nov 15 18:34:23 2020

“ I wonder how legal are this kind of eBay restriction practices in terms of presumptions of innocence until proven otherwise.”

On eBay, they do not adhere to ANY kind of due process, such as those which are a foundation of US jurisprudence. Only those members of eBay who recently stand accused (for example) of the heinous legally malfeasant activities related to cyberstalking terrorism against the hosts of this very website have hypocritically plead for such due process protections afforded any citizen accused of ‘crime’. Otherwise, they as a ‘private company’ deem themselves above such barriers to their operations.

Thus, on eBay, be it related to feedback or ‘defect’ or anything else against ‘policy’, any seller simply accused is automatically considered guilty, so judged, and sanction applied. In most cases, even an appeal is either outright denied, or at the least, obfuscated or delayed to the point that any reversal is made moot by time they take to correct the record.

As for the OP’s situation, this is an all too common and long experienced problem that no amount of logic, or evidence offered to rebut has ever corrected. Once eBay deems such an ‘association’ exists (typically via no more than a common IP address used in commission of no more than ALLEGED ‘violation’ to begin with), all those deemed by eBay to be so ‘complicit’ are automatically judged guilty by association, and sanctioned without appeal.

And as stated to be experienced, any ‘promise’ eBay’s typically unempowered representatives may make to correct unjust judgements will go unfulfilled, just like every other promise they make as a matter of routine ‘customer service closure’.

The only thing the OP did ‘wrong’ in this case is to place their trust in eBay to so much as even care to investigate, much less apply truth and logic or any kind of due process once some ‘bot’ determines there is a so much as a remote ‘possibility’ of sanctionable violation.

They just don’t care about truth or fact otherwise. Best of luck to you, OP.

Perminate Link for Woe to the eBay Seller Whose Family Member Misbeha   Woe to the eBay Seller Whose Family Member Misbeha

This user has validated their user name. by: Marie

Mon Nov 16 02:23:49 2020

Ebay has done this kind of thing as long as I can remember.  I doubt it is illegal.  They have the right to refuse service to people / sellers.  I don't know of any way to get this restriction lifted other than to continue to call and plead your case.  Frustrating I am absolutely sure. It is likely to take multiple calls. I'm certainly sorry this is happening to you.

If you do social media, try Ebay for Business on Facebook.  You may have more luck getting help there.

Perminate Link for Woe to the eBay Seller Whose Family Member Misbeha   Woe to the eBay Seller Whose Family Member Misbeha

by: Oberon This user has validated their user name.

Mon Nov 16 03:50:07 2020

Etsy has the same policy and I have heard similar stories. Its time these evil companies were called to account and i wish someone would do it.

Perminate Link for Woe to the eBay Seller Whose Family Member Misbeha   Woe to the eBay Seller Whose Family Member Misbeha

This user has validated their user name. by: toolguy

Mon Nov 16 09:21:00 2020

So eBay has a system to keep fraud down and you guys are upset???

How dare them protect the buyer from evil sellers!

How dare them!

I had this happen with Paypal

We can no longer get a "Working Capital" loan because something our daughter did, Paypal won't tell us what it was or how it can be fixed.

We are SOL and there's no way to correct it without hiring an attorney.

Perminate Link for Woe to the eBay Seller Whose Family Member Misbeha   Woe to the eBay Seller Whose Family Member Misbeha

by: railady This user has validated their user name.

Mon Nov 16 10:48:34 2020

In a nutshell:  You agree to their terms so you can sell (and buy). You disagree? You are out. That is the way it is. If you don't play by the sandbox rules, you won't be allowed to play there.

If anything is questionable, and someone actually helps you so you come out ahead, be thankful. Most of the people you talk to a) do not care; b) do not have the time; c) are afraid to do something that may cost them their jobs; d) are just trying to get you off the phone so they can make their daily call quota; or e) all of the above.

Moral of the story =  Expect the worst, so you are never disappointed.  

Perminate Link for Woe to the eBay Seller Whose Family Member Misbeha   Woe to the eBay Seller Whose Family Member Misbeha

by: I Must be Crazy This user has validated their user name.

Mon Nov 16 13:19:19 2020

Marie is correct; eBay has been doing this for a very long time. In that time I have never let anyone sign into eBay using any of my devices. Nor will I "help out a friend" by printing labels or anything else.

Once someone is flagged by eBay, every device they have used is suspect along with any "related" accounts that use those same devices.

Somehow they are unable to apply this same logic to buyers who abuse the platform. The beating up of sellers of the last 12 plus years will continue unabated.

Perminate Link for Woe to the eBay Seller Whose Family Member Misbeha   Woe to the eBay Seller Whose Family Member Misbeha

by: pace306 This user has validated their user name.

Mon Nov 16 14:15:51 2020

On eBay - every problem requires a sledgehammer and never a scalpel.

Its how eBay operates - since they are cheap sob's and the cost in time and effort - to find a solution to almost any problem costs time and money.

You as a seller can loose time and money - but they cant.

Thats why CS agents are useless - training people costs MONEY.

eBay would rather build bars and offer perks and bonuses to eBay employees then give a rats behind about you and your problem.

In the TOS/UA that you automatically agree to every time you log on/log in to your account - you give them permission to do a whole host of things that would be illegal and immoral "in the real world".

eBay only abides by the magic rules of the Kingdom Of San Jose - and those rules are what ever it takes to insure that eBay doesnt loose 1 penny.

Sellers give eBay the rights to decide what happens with returns, with your money, your reputation and anything else eBay wants to control.

The OP got caught in the ebay toilet. You go round and round talking to and dealing with cr@p and then in the end "no one was saved", and thats how eBay wants it.

Why? cause you like me and alot of others need eBay for the small amount of good that eBay still does.

Like a stopped clock thats right 2x per day - "when eBay works" it works well. There ARE buyers, there ARE opportunities - its just that in todays eBay its 100x harder then it used to be - because eBay hires/rehires absolute morons who talk alot but do nothing in real terms.

The last Walmart escapee talks about making eBay great (again?), trust between sellers and eBay - but you see that when the sh_t hits the fan and you actually need help - hes not there, the OTHER Walmart reject is AWOL as is GRIFF The Lazy.

All of them are off at Walkers eating the Shrimp Salad, tossing back shots of J&B and laughing at the stupid sellers who need help.

Theres a reason they are the San Jose Mafia ...... (actually its probably NOT fair to the "mafia" - eBay is so sloppy that it would embarrass ANY "made man".)

Perminate Link for Woe to the eBay Seller Whose Family Member Misbeha   Woe to the eBay Seller Whose Family Member Misbeha

by: zeek6228 This user has validated their user name.

Mon Nov 16 16:05:37 2020

Call on Saturdays when it is Sunday in the Philippines.  Speak to the representative for 30 seconds or so and listen to their voice. If they don't sound like someone who has ever used the internet to buy or sell something on eBay (lives in the USA) hang up and try again.

If you catch a US based agent they can help you if they feel like helping you. Philippines/India agent will not grasp the concept that it is possible that family members like aren't associated.  

Perminate Link for Woe to the eBay Seller Whose Family Member Misbeha   Woe to the eBay Seller Whose Family Member Misbeha

This user has validated their user name. by: iheartjacksparrow

Mon Nov 16 16:49:53 2020

The first thing the OP needs to do is to tell his son that under no circumstance will he be allowed to look at his account anywhere near the OP's residence. Tell the son to go to the local public library, Starbucks or anywhere there's free WiFi to check his account. Or put his store on vacation until the son returns to his own residence. Then go to Twitter and post a message to @AskeBay and see if there is anyone who can help with this issue.

Perminate Link for Woe to the eBay Seller Whose Family Member Misbeha   Woe to the eBay Seller Whose Family Member Misbeha

by: VK58 This user has validated their user name.

Mon Nov 16 20:39:11 2020

Firstly, I would disagree with a comment that sellers must be awully thankful to EBay for letting them use their platform. Selling on EBay is far from being a free ''privilege'', so both sides must follow at least some basic rules of business contract. The point here is that EBay punishes someone based on an assumption or just a possibility of doing something wrong w/o presenting any evidence of such intentions, let alone real actions. It is akin to being  prosecuted because someone was allowed to call from one's phone or use one's PC and who much later had frictions with the law. Under normal circumstances the evidence, not a guess, must precede the punishment for collaboration. EBay and apparently other online businesses have unreasonably broad and very selfish interpretation of association evidence, such as a year old connection from a certain PC. Even a short term association of this kind is no proof of actual wrong doing.
Who is a greater violator of the law and order here?
Looks like EBay believes it is the judge and the sheriff there.
Any thoughts?

Perminate Link for Woe to the eBay Seller Whose Family Member Misbeha   Woe to the eBay Seller Whose Family Member Misbeha

This user has validated their user name. by: toolguy

Tue Nov 17 12:47:30 2020

@pace306

"tossing back shots of J&B"

I've never heard of that beer or wine.

You do know they only serve Beer & Wine!

Perminate Link for Woe to the eBay Seller Whose Family Member Misbeha   Woe to the eBay Seller Whose Family Member Misbeha

by: pace306 This user has validated their user name.

Tue Nov 17 13:45:30 2020

No tool - I dont

Ive never been there - have you?

maybe they are there drinking thunderbird or Ripple - whats the difference?

Perminate Link for Woe to the eBay Seller Whose Family Member Misbeha   Woe to the eBay Seller Whose Family Member Misbeha

by: teufelwolf This user has validated their user name.

Tue Nov 17 13:46:38 2020

@Snapped
Corporations are not subject to ANY kind of due process, such as those which are a foundation of US jurisprudence.
This is because the 7th Amendment was nullified by Supreme Court and replaced by the FAA (Federal Arbitration Act).
Big Business sold this to small business by claiming it would protect BOTH from frivolous lawsuits, but where as Ebay or Amazon can force you to accept Binding Arbitration... Just TRY and force YOUR customers to sign a BA contract when they order or want to walk in your store.
The 7th Amendment WAS to corporations what the 2nd Amendment was to a looter. You can't shoot a corporation that is looting your business, you COULD sue them, but now we have all be disarmed.
Since I am sure most people here have never read the bill of rights... The 7th
"In Suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any Court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law."

Perminate Link for Woe to the eBay Seller Whose Family Member Misbeha   Woe to the eBay Seller Whose Family Member Misbeha

by: teufelwolf This user has validated their user name.

Tue Nov 17 13:55:08 2020

For the OP.
See if you state has a "Arbitrary Discrimination Law" similar to California's Uhruh Civil Rights Act.
In CA you can ask the AG to send a letter of inquiry to a company, and that bypasses all the drones and goes right the CLO office. The letters have no legal "force" but they are public record.
You can also sue under that Act in small claims court, which is not subject to Binding Arbitration.  

Perminate Link for Woe to the eBay Seller Whose Family Member Misbeha   Woe to the eBay Seller Whose Family Member Misbeha

This user has validated their user name. by: toolguy

Tue Nov 17 23:31:00 2020

See for yourself

Here's their instagram page: https://www.instagram.com/walkerswest/?hl=en

Perminate Link for Woe to the eBay Seller Whose Family Member Misbeha   Woe to the eBay Seller Whose Family Member Misbeha

by: Snapped This user has validated their user name.

Wed Nov 18 00:58:54 2020

Danke tuefelwolf. You are no doubt correct in presuming most folks knowledge of constitutional/business law history could be improved.

However the comments I offered were not made with reference to due process subjugation required by ‘the corporation’, rather were intended to reiterate how they themselves do not use due process when standing in judgement against those alleged to be in violation against corporate policies. The fact no ‘law’ may compel such doesn’t make it ‘ok’ though, no matter how ‘legal’.

Kind of you to offer some options to the OP nevertheless, despite probably being more expensive than it’s worth. No doubt eBay is well aware of that too.

Perminate Link for Woe to the eBay Seller Whose Family Member Misbeha   Woe to the eBay Seller Whose Family Member Misbeha

by: pace306 This user has validated their user name.

Wed Nov 18 07:13:15 2020

Tool

What’s your point?

Have you anything that’s on topic to add to the conversation or not?

Perminate Link for Woe to the eBay Seller Whose Family Member Misbeha   Woe to the eBay Seller Whose Family Member Misbeha

by: VK58 This user has validated their user name.

Fri Nov 20 02:57:18 2020

To all skeptic comments on this blog. Our account has been restored by EBay customer service after having another chat and reviewing the case once again. There are reasonable people there and, apparently, not completely powerless to reverse automatic decision making by EBay computers. Hopefully EBay will not have another fit and the reversal to normal is final. Thanks for the discussion and opinions.

Perminate Link for Woe to the eBay Seller Whose Family Member Misbeha   Woe to the eBay Seller Whose Family Member Misbeha

by: Snapped This user has validated their user name.

Sat Nov 21 05:15:57 2020

Skeptics?

Well, if anybody is ok with A) this incident happening in the first place, or B) being compelled to shout it out in a public forum, or C) requiring multiple contacts and discussions to correct it, or D) the potential loss of income and profit in the uncertain interim, and E) all of the above, then kumbaya to you.

And feel free to also disregard the way way too many before you for years now members who haven’t been so fortunate to achieve such an outstanding, what should have been no-brainer, resolution. Though better than even money it wasn’t a foreign born employee of that evil empire of eCom who so ‘nimbly’ unflipped that switch, right?

Until next time then, happy selling....until next time.

Perminate Link for Woe to the eBay Seller Whose Family Member Misbeha   Woe to the eBay Seller Whose Family Member Misbeha

This user has validated their user name. by: toolguy

Sat Nov 21 11:22:56 2020

Guilt by association, it's nothing new.

It's been going on for ions, been there done that.

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