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Sun Sept 15 2019 19:44:28

eBay Notifies Sellers AFTER Updating User Agreement

By: Reader

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Dear Ina,
I am curious how many other sellers have received an email from eBay alerting them to "Updates to the eBay User Agreement". I received mine today, Sept. 14, yet it states that these changes will be taking affect on August 30, 2019.  

Besides the annoyance that the updates were sent after the fact, I am shocked to read in the Listing Conditions that "To drive a positive user experience, a listing may not appear in some search and browse results regardless of the sort order chosen by the buyer". Isn't this illegal?  

Shouldn't sellers be advised if their listings will be hidden from buyers?? If my listings are not going to appear, I do not want to pay to list them, or even if it was free, why would I waste my time creating a listing that would be hidden? 

I am beyond shocked. I know on some of your boards there have been people claiming this happens already, but I was never sure. To have eBay admit this is a real eye opener.
J.

Comments (20) | Leave Comment | Permalink
Readers Comments

Perminate Link for eBay Notifies Sellers AFTER Updating User Agreemen   eBay Notifies Sellers AFTER Updating User Agreemen

by: hopeforthebest This user has validated their user name.

Sun Sep 15 20:03:07 2019

I know it's discouraging. I got the email too, but I don't even read them any more. My blood pressure can't take it.

"Shouldn't sellers be advised if their listings will be hidden from buyers?" You've been advised - you got this email. If you list from this point on you understand nobody will ever see it.

"Isn't this illegal?" No.

As far as not seeing a listing, the numbers alone tell the truth: some searches pull in hundreds of thousands of results. The vast majority of listings will NEVER be seen by human eyes, ever, search manipulation or not.

Perminate Link for eBay Notifies Sellers AFTER Updating User Agreemen   eBay Notifies Sellers AFTER Updating User Agreemen

by: pace306 This user has validated their user name.

Sun Sep 15 21:15:17 2019

Didnt get the email - cant tell you ....

HOWEVER:

1) eBay has NEVER been an honest broker. They never have been nor will they ever be. eBay is the "San Jose Mafia" for a reason. They lie, cheat and steal to engorge themselves on the profits to live lavish lifestyles as promised to them by the Don aka The Norseman (every mafia don has a nickname). eBay does not care if they steal from you - you are a $2 cockroach and theres a billion more just like you "waiting" to sell on the platform (aka go along with their asinine rules).

2) Back in the day the people that ran eBay actually cared about sellers and ecommerce - the business they were actually in - now, the ecommerce part of the platform is just "bait" for eyeballs aka advertising. As long as buyers dont complain (and eBay placates them with YOUR MONEY) the gravy train continues to roll on "forever".

3) Someone somewhere is getting paid off to recommend eBay stock as a BUY on CNBC, SEEKINGALPHA and others. A blind person can see that eBay (with its stupendously poor %2 growth) isnt deserving of BUY recommendation - at all. If you own stock of this dog - at $40 a share - Id RUN and sell it ...!

eBay is Enron part 2, its Lehman all over again - and theres no one stopping the plane crash. Once Stubhub is gone, eBays growth will be NEGATIVE.

Its really a pump & dump game - eBay (with no plan for growth) buys its own stock back to keep the company afloat and the financial guys clap like trained seals since they get commission for recommending the stock.

But now that you have a background on WHAT eBay is..... WHY did this happen?

It happened specifically because you (and me) are the aforementioned $2 cockroaches so "it doesnt matter" what and when the notice was sent out.

Why? "'Cause its in the TOS" - and THAT is why it legal.

eBay 3-4 years back got its platform reclassified as a software with a shrinkwrap license. Its important because .....

"Your logging on is the same as you agreeing to ALL the terms "provided therein"" and the notice then becomes JUST A COURTESY (ask an attorney, he or she will tell you).

Of course NO ONE looks at the TOS (then or now) - you just log on and "list, sell, collect".

Sure its fraud by deception - but whos got the cajones to sue eBay? You? me? .... no one.

Its all nice and tidy. When you want to know why eBay has SO MANY lawyers on payroll - THIS and things like it are the reason.

Yes, the NORSEMAN, sleeps very well at night knowing he collects money from you for not showing your listings - hes a criminal for gods sake - he doesnt have a conscious,

Its also why eBay hands out LOTS of free listings - you cant be cheated if you didnt pay! (for the listing).

eBays hiding of listings is certainly not NEW. The eBay cheerleaders here and on the boards will swear to what ever GOD you like and tell you "its NOT true, why would they".

They can, they do, they use it as punishment, they use it to quiet descent, they use it to enrich their friends.

You and I will continue to pay up to the DON via what ever method he wants. The eBay "Pauly Walnuts" with the lead pipe aka Burke will ensure it - and the old grifter makes sure of it.

And people complain about Amazon ....geez :)

Perminate Link for eBay Notifies Sellers AFTER Updating User Agreemen   eBay Notifies Sellers AFTER Updating User Agreemen

This user has validated their user name. by: iheartjacksparrow

Sun Sep 15 22:28:03 2019

@J. (the OP) - The TOS has said that, or a variation, for years. And it isn't illegal because you agree to the contents of the TOS every time you log onto eBay. We've been commenting for years on this blog about how despicable eBay is for taking money for a service they often do not provide.

Perminate Link for eBay Notifies Sellers AFTER Updating User Agreemen   eBay Notifies Sellers AFTER Updating User Agreemen

This user has validated their user name. by: Lightning

Sun Sep 15 23:45:05 2019

Basically your listing fee is for the OPPORTUNITY to be shown.  It may, or may not, flip a coin.  Like when you buy a lottery scratch ticket - you COULD be a winner (but most likely not).  

At least they are saying there is a  chance your paid listing might show up.  Oops - another lie.  We know there's no chance.

And it's not illegal because you don't have to agree to it.  Just go somewhere else.  They are counting on there being no good alternative.  Sooner or later they will be wrong.

Perminate Link for eBay Notifies Sellers AFTER Updating User Agreemen   eBay Notifies Sellers AFTER Updating User Agreemen

by: Silver Ice King This user has validated their user name.

Mon Sep 16 00:26:50 2019

This issue about whether your listings are ever seen was added a few years back when they got called on the fact that listings were not being shown.  Even though you pay a fee for listing on their site, Ebay no longer wants to pay for the equipment necessary to show all of the listings on their site, especially since they always want to show the big box stores, megasellers and Chinese listings at all times.

The biggest problem Ebay has now is that their search engine is so broken and they do not have any talent capable of fixing it.  Buyers are tired of seeing what Ebay wants to show them ( usually the items with the highest Promoted Listings FVF for Ebay) and sink those that will not pay even more for their items to potentially sell, so they now just shop elsewhere.  On the rare occasion that I do buy something on Ebay I use 2 different search engines that make Ebay look like their programmers are still in kindergarten.  I not only am able to see all of the listings by ending time, but can also see the best offer prices that the item actually sold for rather than Ebays original asking price. I am positive the original asking price is what they use to report their GMV to Wall Street since that number is never audited and can truthfully just be a number grabbed out of thin air like most of the other numbers they throw at sellers as time tested data.

Perminate Link for eBay Notifies Sellers AFTER Updating User Agreemen   eBay Notifies Sellers AFTER Updating User Agreemen

by: kazaly This user has validated their user name.

Mon Sep 16 00:37:19 2019

The legality of hiding listings is an interesting point given that most of us pay monthly fees for eBay to display our goods.
I don't know how things work precisely in the US legal system but English common law is the basis of the UK, Canadian and Australian/NZ, and originally the US system though it was heavily modified.
Essentially, the English view of Torts (Civil Contracts) is that an agreement is illegal if it violates either of the parties rights under common law.
I would suggest that an Anglo legal view of the sale of "listing space" would oblige the seller of that space (ebay) to proffer to the buyer of that space (Us) a guarantee that, under normal circumstances, the sapce we paid for would be shown to buyers.
It would, I think, be quite illegal to say "we'll only show your listings as and when we see fit arbitrarily".
I could see a judge viewing a contract like that very dimly indeed.
I wonder if anyone in a Commonwealth country has ever taken ebay on?
I also wonder if, under US law, it is possible to contractually sign your common law (human) rights away?

Perminate Link for eBay Notifies Sellers AFTER Updating User Agreemen   eBay Notifies Sellers AFTER Updating User Agreemen

by: Jono77 This user has validated their user name.

Mon Sep 16 05:38:08 2019

@Silver Ice King On the rare occasion that I do buy something on Ebay I use 2 different search engines that make Ebay look like their programmers are still in kindergarten.

Can you please tell us what search you are using? I would like an honest eBay search if there is one.

Perminate Link for eBay Notifies Sellers AFTER Updating User Agreemen   eBay Notifies Sellers AFTER Updating User Agreemen

by: Knottybay This user has validated their user name.

Mon Sep 16 07:01:33 2019

After almost 20 years of the joy of selling on eBay, they have been pushing me off with their shenanigans. I have been slowly and patiently transferring to Webstore.com because it is the site closest to what eBay used to be in its prime. Check it out, join up and transfer. Then we can all watch as eBay goes down in flames.

Perminate Link for eBay Notifies Sellers AFTER Updating User Agreemen   eBay Notifies Sellers AFTER Updating User Agreemen

by: marty This user has validated their user name.

Mon Sep 16 07:39:45 2019

Other than my item sales messages, everything else receiving from ebay is deleted without reading, including an every single user agreement I received in the last 21 years.  

Perminate Link for eBay Notifies Sellers AFTER Updating User Agreemen   eBay Notifies Sellers AFTER Updating User Agreemen

by: plcombs This user has validated their user name.
Web Site

Mon Sep 16 08:24:10 2019

If you create a listing and ignore the CASSINI requirements or fail to fully fill in all the blanks, you will have very much reduced viability.  There is a video on You Tube explaining it in detail. You must pay close attention to it, or you're wasting your time.  "How To Write Better eBay Listings With Good Titles, Structured Data, Descriptions with Cassini"

Perminate Link for eBay Notifies Sellers AFTER Updating User Agreemen   eBay Notifies Sellers AFTER Updating User Agreemen

by: Evenger This user has validated their user name.

Mon Sep 16 08:57:58 2019

Thank you all for your thoughts and advice.  I have sold on eBay on and off for quite some years but I am new to these boards (I think I joined last spring).  Over the past two years I have been lising more regularly and have seen so many comments here about hidden listings.  I wasn't sure if it was true, but after reading comments here I DID start to notice that my sales would come in droves.  About once a month I get a surge.  But again, I didn't really want to believe they would actually HIDE my listings.  When I got the Notice of Updates I was truly blown away that this was being admitted.  

Perminate Link for eBay Notifies Sellers AFTER Updating User Agreemen   eBay Notifies Sellers AFTER Updating User Agreemen

by: pace306 This user has validated their user name.

Mon Sep 16 11:04:27 2019

The monies used to upgrade eBays server farm - went to build Walkers West, to the golden parachute for The Norseman, bonus's for the BOD and for Griff's last birthday (the Norseman went to South America looking for unicorn for him).

eBays Amiga 1000's are slowly dieing - and need to be replaced but really - are sellers WORTH IT ? (we know they arent - they are all just NOISE).

eBay is about advertising not ecommerce

Perminate Link for eBay Notifies Sellers AFTER Updating User Agreemen   eBay Notifies Sellers AFTER Updating User Agreemen

This user has validated their user name. by: SalesBoy

Mon Sep 16 12:40:18 2019

You have a right to be miffed, but it's not illegal since you've agreed to this in the past.

I've known my listings aren't always listed in search results for years, now.  Often, one of my listings will generate 2 or 3 sales in rapid succession, often by buyers in the same U.S. region, and then sales just as suddenly stop for that item.  Coincidence?  No such thing on eBay.

Unfortunately for sellers like me, eBay is the best show in town.  God, how sad is that!?

Perminate Link for eBay Notifies Sellers AFTER Updating User Agreemen   eBay Notifies Sellers AFTER Updating User Agreemen

by: Silver Ice King This user has validated their user name.

Mon Sep 16 14:01:52 2019

@Jono77

Sorry but there is no way that I am going to disclose those search engines because Ebay will do to them what it has done to others, limit what they can actually view.  Recently one of these sites which used to show the true selling price of items sold with the Best Offer suddenly no longer is able to show this information.  Any bets on how much influence Ebay had on that?

Ebay still uses the GMV to report their sales to Wall Street and I would lay heavy odds that they report the amount the listing was originally showing and NOT the amount of the Best Offer that the items really sold for.  If it cannot be seen to be disputed by anybody, Ebay can use whatever numbers they want and have been doing so for many years until their numbers were just so much higher than reality of the audited numbers that Ebay finally admitted to a decrease in their GMV.  Of course this decline was due only to their reduced marketing expenses and were completely expected.  This is the second site that I have used to have that information suddenly no longer available to be shown to the public.

You would think that Ebay would want its buyers and sellers to be able to find everything on their site and to be able to see what it actually sold for.  Unfortunately this is not the case as Ebay still prefers to manipulate what its buyers are able to see to maximize their profits and those sellers who are paying them higher FVF due to Promoted Listings.  This is what will eventually be the downfall of Wenig and Ebay as Buyers will continue to leave their site and tell their friends and relatives about the broken site.

Word of Mouth is still the best or worst advertising as Ebay is finally discovering.  All of those buyers who could not find what they were looking for and Sellers who have been subjected to continued statements of ''sorry but that is a cost of doing business on the internet and Ebay''.  Ebay never takes one for the team which is causing more and more sellers to pull many of their products to other sites or expanding their exposure to other sites where their prices are lower than on Ebay.

Perminate Link for eBay Notifies Sellers AFTER Updating User Agreemen   eBay Notifies Sellers AFTER Updating User Agreemen

by: purpleiris This user has validated their user name.

Tue Sep 17 07:40:37 2019

@kazaly...You bring up some very good points worth looking into. You always hear us say how some things are unconstitutional, so that's our argument in cases like this.

Perminate Link for eBay Notifies Sellers AFTER Updating User Agreemen   eBay Notifies Sellers AFTER Updating User Agreemen

by: Snapped This user has validated their user name.

Tue Sep 17 08:43:35 2019

"You must pay close attention to it, or you're wasting your time."

No.  Not "or".  AND.

While eBay will certanly ignore any square pegs (unless 'made in China'), even the most perfectly 'rounded' have no assurance of placement (unless, ....well, you know).  

Perminate Link for eBay Notifies Sellers AFTER Updating User Agreemen   eBay Notifies Sellers AFTER Updating User Agreemen

This user has validated their user name. by: CanBrit

Tue Sep 17 09:23:34 2019

"We will provide you 30 days' notice by posting the amended terms. Additionally, we will notify you through the eBay Message Center and/or by email."

So they let me know they've amended the TOS on Sep 14th when in fact it was in place August 30th. Sure doesn't seem like 30 days notice. Then again, I think it's the only part of the agreement they continue to screw up.

Perminate Link for eBay Notifies Sellers AFTER Updating User Agreemen   eBay Notifies Sellers AFTER Updating User Agreemen

This user has validated their user name. by: NoMoreEbay

Tue Sep 17 09:38:34 2019

One of the many reasons I stopped selling on this cess-pool last year.

Perminate Link for eBay Notifies Sellers AFTER Updating User Agreemen   eBay Notifies Sellers AFTER Updating User Agreemen

This user has validated their user name. by: The End

Tue Sep 17 14:20:28 2019

Ut,  YES IT IS ILLEGAL !
It's called BAIT AND SWITCH.
ILLEGAL !
The only reason the Law hasn't snared Ebay yet : Good 'ol Boy network.

Perminate Link for eBay Notifies Sellers AFTER Updating User Agreemen   eBay Notifies Sellers AFTER Updating User Agreemen

by: Geetar This user has validated their user name.

Wed Sep 18 08:09:59 2019

WOW!

"To drive a positive user experience, a listing may not appear in some search and browse results regardless of the sort order chosen by the buyer"

But everyone thats sells knows this. This is one of the reasons why ebay does not grow.

"WE WILL DECIDE WHAT THE CUSTOMER BUYS"
Really? Do you think so? How is that working out for you? So, Ebay, when did you start to loose real growth? When?, when you implemented cassini?

Gotta love these idiots. "WE WIL DRIVE XXX XXX XXXX" The only thing your driving is youself into a hole.

The business dictates to you what you need to do, have, or make to DRIVE sales. You can only move with it. Not divert it, manipulate it. You idiots dont see that by now?



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