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Mon Mar 18 2019 13:27:12

eBay Says Photograph of Tampered Return Is Not Evidence

By: Reader

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Dear Ina,
I am trying to figure out the proper way to handle a return on eBay when the buyer sent back a different item?

I sold an electronic cooker that the buyer claimed was not working. They sent the item back and when I got it, I noticed that the serial number had been cut on back and it had been opened up. All factory stickers were missing. 

I posted these images on the return case. I called eBay and told them that I had received a different and tampered with item. After about an hour on the phone and speaking with different supervisors, I was told that there was not proof that the buyer switched or messed with the item. Even with pictures. They said that since they put the tracking number in and it was confirmed delivered that I would have to accept the return. 

This makes no sense to me. eBay said that they can't use pictures as proof. What else can you use? They said that I need to message the buyer and get them to admit they switched or tampered with the item. I am sure the buyer is going to be tons of help.....  
Greg

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Readers Comments

Perminate Link for eBay Says Photograph of Tampered Return Is Not Evi   eBay Says Photograph of Tampered Return Is Not Evi

by: Vernfern This user has validated their user name.

Mon Mar 18 13:54:35 2019

The real reason I am not listing on eBay. I can deal with the search issues, the GTC policy and even the fees to sell an item. However with all the scammer buyers out there and eBay being a partner in crime - not worth it. I have had too many items come back due to abusing returns and eBay stands behind the scammer.  

Perminate Link for eBay Says Photograph of Tampered Return Is Not Evi   eBay Says Photograph of Tampered Return Is Not Evi

by: Silver Ice King This user has validated their user name.

Mon Mar 18 14:16:34 2019

Ebay does not care if you get ripped off as they call that a cost of doing business on the internet.  Of course it is not costing them anything that your item was stolen so they could care less.  

Many people have bantered numbers around and it is estimated that 8-12% of Ebay sales are made by scammers which is why Ebay will do nothing about it.  They are dependent upon those scammers who buy way more than a regular buyer and to eliminate them or give you your money back would be devastating to their stock price at this point in time.

Perminate Link for eBay Says Photograph of Tampered Return Is Not Evi   eBay Says Photograph of Tampered Return Is Not Evi

by: sasikat9 This user has validated their user name.

Mon Mar 18 15:21:41 2019

How about this. Suppose the buyer said they recieved something other than what they ordered and sent you pictures of an entirely different item. Would you believe the pictures to be total fact. I DOUBT IT.

Perminate Link for eBay Says Photograph of Tampered Return Is Not Evi   eBay Says Photograph of Tampered Return Is Not Evi

by: pace306 This user has validated their user name.

Mon Mar 18 15:34:22 2019

If GOD him/herself was there when you opened the item and swore for you that you were ripped off - Devin Wenig would still call him/her a liar.

See on eBay, sellers are the SCUM of humanity. They live/exist ONLY to hurt buyers, and ALL buyers - even ones that do very bad things - are all ANGELS from heaven.

It doesnt matter if you are a 20 yr eBay seller with a few thousand feedbacks at %100 and your accuser is a new buyer with a 3 feedback - he/she is OBVIOUSLY telling the truth, and you are not.

"At least eBay doesnt discriminate", they steal from ALL sellers - big and small, rich and poor, Democrat or Republican, Jewish, Muslim, Christian or Flying Spaghetti Monster - with impunity.

Why? because sellers are a reusable resource thats easily exploited.

Dont steal from eBay, but steal from sellers - thats eBays motto.

You cant sue eBay, thatg genius women thats part of the BOD made sure of that. You also (mostly) signed away your rights in the TOS - thank her again. (Marie Oh Huber heads the global legal and government relations function for eBay. She and her team partner with the businesses to drive the purpose and success of eBay and its buyers and sellers). Note she claims "success" ........ Its all a lie.

You can and should report eBay as an accessory to an internet crime (Marie was out that day getting her hair done when the topic of internet theft was discussed), and you could threaten to sue the buyer (just dont do it via eBay messaging as eBay runs interference for buyers and will boot you for "menacing")

eBay plays "vampire on the cliff" and swoops down when hungry to feed on a fat juicy cow aka a seller.

Theres NO SUCH THING as "seller protection". Its a white whale, its the Loch Ness Monster, its a Yetti, Big Foot or Kaiser Soze .

Selling on eBay requires that you play defense against "your selling partner" since sadly - your pocket (unless they want money from you) is the last thing they care about.

(Some here will trot out Good Old' Uncle Griff as some kind of HERO OF SELLERS). You could try emailing him as well - but its like "totally useless for sure" ........

Perminate Link for eBay Says Photograph of Tampered Return Is Not Evi   eBay Says Photograph of Tampered Return Is Not Evi

This user has validated their user name. by: NoMoreEbay

Mon Mar 18 15:43:49 2019

This is one of about 20 reasons I stopped selling on ebay last September.

Sellers are NOT protected on ebay except when tracking shows 'delivered.' Even then, I've read recently that ebay has started refunding buyers for just saying the item wasn't received.

If you want to sell here, understand this is a toxic environment for sellers with no protection, no support, no nothing.

Perminate Link for eBay Says Photograph of Tampered Return Is Not Evi   eBay Says Photograph of Tampered Return Is Not Evi

by: foreilly This user has validated their user name.

Mon Mar 18 15:47:50 2019

You have their address and seem to have the documentation/photographic evidence. Let them know you will be contacting the postmaster and their local police department about their act of theft and mail fraud.
Then actually do it. Brick and mortar stores don't call their landlord if someone steals from them. This is what people are going to have to do if ebay isn't offering seller protection for people who don't provide free returns.

Perminate Link for eBay Says Photograph of Tampered Return Is Not Evi   eBay Says Photograph of Tampered Return Is Not Evi

by: iSueBuyers This user has validated their user name.

Mon Mar 18 17:23:05 2019

Don't bother aruging with the high school drop-out phone reps. They seem to operate a crazy standard of proof that no one else does.

eBay's legal dept can't afford to operate on the same crazy standard of proof. Send them a "Notice of Dispute" and they will have 30 days to decide to contest your claim in arbitration(and pay $2k+ in filing fees), or just settle the claim.

(See ebay user agreement)

Perminate Link for eBay Says Photograph of Tampered Return Is Not Evi   eBay Says Photograph of Tampered Return Is Not Evi

by: Snapped This user has validated their user name.

Mon Mar 18 21:17:36 2019

Succumbing to a significantly increased chance of a scam deal isn't the cost of doing business on eBay.  It's the cost of doing business with eBay.  Because eBay takes no position in the matter.  Not at the bar at least.

Which on the surface can be acceptable - it merely means it is incumbent upon any seller to be prepared to defend against and prosecute allegations of fraud for their own (business) benefits.  Which is true no matter the 'venue' anyway.  And as has been offered many times here - even this thread - and elsewhere, there are plenty of no cost reporting and enforcement resources available for that purpose.  

However, it is when eBay takes that position and then compels certan actions as a result of 'investigation resolution findings', for which no investigation ever occurs, no evidence is considered (or often outright denied), and the resolution itself pre-determined robitically, via the seller's purse no less, that's where eBay's criminal complicity in this behavior lays.

It's not a matter of simple policy, because that would require total 'neutrality' to which eBay lays claim.  If you've no 'opinion' then you've no rght to 'judge'  But if you choose to judge, and do so by 'default', then fund your own 'ordered returns' costs and no-questions refunds - all of them, not just the dime-store stuff.  

Not gonna happen of course.  Not just because of the dollars.  But because a company that has no problem scheming means to swindle it's own customers has no problem with anybody else doing it too.

En Garde.  

Perminate Link for eBay Says Photograph of Tampered Return Is Not Evi   eBay Says Photograph of Tampered Return Is Not Evi

This user has validated their user name. by: Rexford

Tue Mar 19 06:32:07 2019

Sasikat9 says "How about this. Suppose the buyer said they recieved something other than what they ordered and sent you pictures of an entirely different item. Would you believe the pictures to be total fact. I DOUBT IT."

Little Miss Sunshine Doray lives.   While I have come to expect that anything that you write will not in anyway help a poster with issues, to answer your question, based on the scenario you propose, that buyer would be as crooked as the buyer who sent back the wrong item.  It's mail fraud either way, and eBay is going to back the buyer (buyers are never wrong you know) either way.

eBay makes it easy for scammers.  They enable it.  I've had this happen to me. eBay actually came to my defense but of course they also refunded the buyer so even though I got my money back.  Based on what I read these days, they no longer do that.  They will not support tenured sellers with great selling records anymore. Aiding and abetting fraud.

OP, file a  buyer mail fraud case with your shipper PRONTO. Show the buyer that you mean business and you are not going to stand for it.

Perminate Link for eBay Says Photograph of Tampered Return Is Not Evi   eBay Says Photograph of Tampered Return Is Not Evi

by: pace306 This user has validated their user name.

Tue Mar 19 09:00:49 2019

"ebay isn't offering seller protection for people who don't provide free returns"

"Free returns" or not - should have NOTHING to do with protections for sellers when claims arise. And THAT is part of the problem.

Of course it all goes back to the GRAND LIE of "we are just a venue" - except for when they arent - which is %99 of the time.

If "you are going to be judge, jury and executioner" then PARITY and fairness should be the rule of the land.

Always bening biased AGAINST sellers - especially when they refuse to fund the fake return - should have nothing to do with it at all.

In fact - IRL - because you donated money to the judges re-election campaign - has nothing (should have nothing) to do with how you are treated in court. In cases like that - in fact - in these the cases the judge recuses him/herself because of that very fact.

Most sellers learn quite quickly that eBay is only out for itself, PERIOD - seller be damned.

Perminate Link for eBay Says Photograph of Tampered Return Is Not Evi   eBay Says Photograph of Tampered Return Is Not Evi

by: mcposty This user has validated their user name.

Tue Mar 19 11:38:11 2019

turn the buyer into the feds, its mail fraud.

The Feds actually accept evidence.

Ebay are criminals to the core.

Perminate Link for eBay Says Photograph of Tampered Return Is Not Evi   eBay Says Photograph of Tampered Return Is Not Evi

This user has validated their user name. by: FidoMaster
Web Site

Tue Mar 19 12:01:50 2019

Lots of great advice above, so without repeating what's been said, Greg you essentially have a time/cost/value equation you need to figure out.

Since getting scammed has rightfully ticked you off enough to write a letter to ECB I suggest putting one or more tracks suggested above into play.

Also:

1) REPORT THE BUYER (eBay may or may not actually do anything about this, but better to report this DB than not)

2) MAKE A STINK ABOUT GETTING SCAMMED:

In terms of time return on effort. I recommend Twitter as the social platform of choice for this.

I have seen many (and participated in a few) victims get satisfaction after getting scammed on eBay and reporting it on Twitter (eBay can't delete your comments like they can in FB and in the community forums).  Plus, I do actually believe the US-based @askeBay team does actually try to do what they can when allowed to by ever changing eBay policies and erratic business practices.

Your changes are even better if you're using a personal account and not an eBay business account.

Perminate Link for eBay Says Photograph of Tampered Return Is Not Evi   eBay Says Photograph of Tampered Return Is Not Evi

This user has validated their user name. by: toolguy

Tue Mar 19 12:25:00 2019

99.99% of people are honest & good

I've shipped over 35,000 items on eBay over the past 19 years.

I've had about a dozen returns in that time and I've NEVER got back anything other then what I sold. . .

Perminate Link for eBay Says Photograph of Tampered Return Is Not Evi   eBay Says Photograph of Tampered Return Is Not Evi

by: pace306 This user has validated their user name.

Tue Mar 19 13:15:31 2019

Tool - "because it doesnt happen to you, doesnt mean it doesnt happen".

Im not sure why that doesnt sink in with you - but you as a seller are ATYPICAL.

I JUST had it happen to me - with a computer motherboard. I got back the correct item with a different serial number.

I didnt waste my time calling eBay - I know them for the crooks they are ... "taking losses is part of business on eBay due to fraud - here take one for the team". I know the answer - no point calling and getting all in a rage.

MY situation is TYPICAL - happens every once in a while. If it was once in a blue moon - then I can understand - but when it happens OFTEN and eBay REFUSES to stand behind 20 year old sellers with perfect ratings ... vs a guy with a 20.

The worst part - is that eBay lies about "seller protection".

Just say "there is none" and at least that would be HONEST, and sellers would know what to expect - NO HELP.

If you ask most sellers - they honestly think that eBay (who claims at every turn that they are your partner) will help them if/when an issue arises. Then when a problem comes up ... they find out that they are ALL on their own.

Maybe, just dont hire people and claim they are there for Seller Relations/Protections/Enhancements or whatever.

Its all %100 BS - Old Grifter or NOT.

Sellers are a commodity that gets used up and then discarded. And unless you are a BIG account - eBay could care less what you have to say or what you feel.

Its a shame that this is how eBay runs their business - but they do.

I feel for the OP - Ive been there (and more with the San Jose mafia) .... its a shame that eBay can have 1000s of employees, but none have the time to help sellers when they get defrauded.

Perminate Link for eBay Says Photograph of Tampered Return Is Not Evi   eBay Says Photograph of Tampered Return Is Not Evi

by: papergoy This user has validated their user name.

Tue Mar 19 14:02:31 2019

Buddy of mine sells on eBay. Sold a VHS.  Got the return on it- it was a bottle of Pepsi and a small container of probiotic vitamins.  Contacted eBay, they refunded the buyer anyway.  

Perminate Link for eBay Says Photograph of Tampered Return Is Not Evi   eBay Says Photograph of Tampered Return Is Not Evi

by: papergoy This user has validated their user name.

Tue Mar 19 14:02:46 2019

That's a tape he sold, not a player

Perminate Link for eBay Says Photograph of Tampered Return Is Not Evi   eBay Says Photograph of Tampered Return Is Not Evi

This user has validated their user name. by: CanBrit

Tue Mar 19 16:35:16 2019

I had a situation where if something was going to go wrong it was definitely going to go totally wrong. I had a buyer purchase a $600 necklace. Generally I send Priority insured for items over $300. With eBay's stupid new way of printing labels, somehow I ended up printing a First Class Label instead.

Well I thought, what is the chance of something wrong happening. 7 days later, I get a notice that a case had been opened up for an item not received. I checked the tracking and somehow it ended up in the City it was supposed to be sent to, but then fell of the map. With a little more digging, I found out that the address was actually a ship forwarder. After a lot more digging I also found out that USPS sometimes doesn't get all the packages scanned that go to that address for some reason. Primarily volume.

The buyer was from Australia. She opened the case as soon as she new the it was past the due date. I'm pretty sure she was also aware that this forwarding company doesn't have all of it's packages scanned.

End results. I know who she is. I know that she has two other sites she sells on. But, since the package went into USPS limbo, I'm out the cash. I spent a few weeks searching to see if it would come up for sale at one of her two other sites but no luck. eBay took the money even though I proved that it was sent to a forwarding company and the fact that payment had come from overseas. I knew I didn't have a leg to stand on.

On a final note, Just last week I received an email from DHL in Australia. I had sent messages to several overseas shippers to see if they could track her down by name and address. I haven't called them yet. I don't even know if I want to know.

Perminate Link for eBay Says Photograph of Tampered Return Is Not Evi   eBay Says Photograph of Tampered Return Is Not Evi

by: DingDong This user has validated their user name.

Tue Mar 19 17:47:04 2019

I would:
*  Contact eBay with all your documentation. (and note that you are filing a police theft report)
*  File a police report for fraud
*  File a report with the Post Office for fraud

If you are sure of all your information and that your know your are right and can back up your action . . .
I had an item that was "supposedly" not received even with tracking number confirmation receipt. (It was under $30.00) eBay refunded the buyer. (I was ticked) So I have a Weebly site and a set up a separate blog with this buyers name and city/state and copies of all the documentation and stated that they had the item and was refunded via eBay. About a year later, this buyer contacted me because of this blog and wanted it taken down. She did have the top and was wearing it. I told her to pay for it and I will updated the blog showing that you did pay for it at a later date. Then in six months, after the blog has been indexed with the update, I will take down the blog. I did get my money.
The reason she found out about this: She was looking for a new job and a future employer came across my blog and questioned her.

Perminate Link for eBay Says Photograph of Tampered Return Is Not Evi   eBay Says Photograph of Tampered Return Is Not Evi

This user has validated their user name. by: iheartjacksparrow

Tue Mar 19 18:04:03 2019

@CanBrit - What you described is exactly why I have polices posted to my FAQ on eCrater that I will hot ship to mail forwarding/deputy services, and I will not accept payment by a credit card issued in a foreign country. A few years ago I got burned by a buyer in Canada and lost close to $400.

A good motto to have while selling on eBay: Don't list anything you are not prepared to lose (along with the money paid to you).

Perminate Link for eBay Says Photograph of Tampered Return Is Not Evi   eBay Says Photograph of Tampered Return Is Not Evi

by: pace306 This user has validated their user name.

Tue Mar 19 19:07:52 2019

Sparrow said "A good motto to have while selling on eBay: Don't list anything you are not prepared to lose (along with the money paid to you). "

You are right - but is this ecommerce or gambling?

I didnt sign up (and I know you didnt either) to gamble your money away.

Does eBay accept the idea of ecommerce being gambling? No they dont. If you dont pay them - they delist you, close your account and put you into collections or damage your credit report.

They have a zero tolerance towards being stolen from - so why should sellers be treated any differently?

I venture that if someone stole DWs jet fuel money - hed come after them with a vengence ... so again - why should sellers be treated any worse? just because the TOS says its ok?

This topic is one of the worst parts of eBay and why I always call them the San Jose Mafia - they protect the wrong people and "lean" on those who dont deserve it - because they can.

Shame on eBay for being a haven for theft and fraud.

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