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Thu Oct 11 2018 15:25:39

What a Returns Case Can Look Like on eBay

By: Reader

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Dear Ina,
Something to share with other sellers: If you call customer service and they make a "ruling" against you, it's not (yet) like a court decision. 

Here's a recent example. I sold a designer shirt. The buyer messaged me for my address for a return. I sent it. One hour later he did a return request claiming the shirt "seemed" to be counterfeit. A few minutes later he added that the shirt was obviously counterfeit and that eBay should do an "investigation." 

I offered 1/2 price back in case he wasn't sure if it was counterfeit. He declined. I approved the return which meant I was paying for round trip postage. 

Next he opened a case on PayPal. I got the shirt back a week later (I still don't know if it was genuine. Looks fine to me), and called eBay and asked for advice since I never had a return request on eBay and a case on PayPal at the same time. 

The CS told me that when a case is opened on PayPal, the computer automatically closes the eBay case but in my case it failed to do so. Remedy: He closed the eBay case and let me do the return on PayPal.  

Of course this infuriated the buyer, but that's an aside. I approved the return and PayPal got confused by instructing the buyer to return the item (he already had), so the case wasn't closed for another week. Unbeknown to both of us, he was actually refunded in the 1st  24 hours.

So he nailed my feedback with his broken English and I called eBay, got transferred to a specialist who told me the CS was incorrect in what he told me. He added that I should ask for a feedback revision to the buyer (LOL) and as for the defect removal I asked for, there was nothing he could do because it was actually eBay that had given the refund because a certain amount of time had passed since eBay CS had closed the case (the CS had actually charged me with escalating the return request, then closed the case in my favor). 

I mentioned something about the reason there are CS jobs is because the computer isn't programmed to cover all the situations which occur. He said there was nothing he could do. (He was not a "level 1" CS. I had to get transferred to him).

I said goodbye, waited a few minutes to cool off, then called back. Once again I got transferred to the correct department, this time a lady handled the call (good, because I don't know the man's name from the previous call). 

I gave her the details, this time without mentioning the feedback, and asked for the defect to be removed and my considerable FV fees to be refunded, as I had done everything eBay expected. She reviewed the case in 2 minutes, said I had done good, removed the defect and credited me the FV fees. 
Have a nice day.
H.

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Readers Comments

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by: sasikat9 This user has validated their user name.

Thu Oct 11 18:11:31 2018

Ebay regularly lets these buyers open both a case on their site and on paypal. So the excuse that ebay SHOULD HAVE NOT ALLOWED IT OR CLOSED THE CASE BUT DIDN'T IS A LIE.

Happens all the time with us. You have to call and correct the ignorant CS people as they are just to dumb with their excuses.

Any by the way as a side note. If this moron doesn't have a tracking number for the return just let paypal close the case as he will lose. Kind of like whats good for the goose scammer is also good for the seller.

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by: Slowest Learner This user has validated their user name.

Thu Oct 11 18:55:53 2018

Here's a helpful tip to all ebay sellers: The buyer is always right, no matter how wrong he/she is.

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by: Snapped This user has validated their user name.

Thu Oct 11 22:01:25 2018

Regardless of any other eBay or PayPal alleged impropriety - and there are certanly plenty to discuss here, there are a couple of other points to ponder:

"(I still don't know if it was genuine. Looks fine to me)"

A seller needs to be CERTAIN about any attribute claimed in a listing and be able to prove it if need be.  Lacking such certainty, there is no defendable position for the seller against any SNAD or defect regarding "genuine" merchandise which may not be.  

"Unbeknown to both of us, he was actually refunded in the 1st  24 hours."

Sellers should be regularly monitoring their accounts for all payments and potential refunds - especially those related to any transaction under investigation.  Failure to do so is not an acceptable 'mitigating circumstance' in any dispute appeal, and is poor customer service fo the buyer - especially if a return for refund is agreeable.

Just sayin'...

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by: pace306 This user has validated their user name.

Thu Oct 11 23:38:12 2018

eh - I can one up you on eBays lies/incompetance/absurdities visa via returns (which is why eBay sucks)(eBay has given the fake lawyers over @ Vero a rest the past yr or so)(so on to new lows).

Customer buys an item and its shipped out same day with DC (SC not required for an under $100 item)

3 days go by and all is quiet, until day 4 - when I got an INR case. SO I go to the tracking and low and behold it shows DELIVERED in his mailbox. Ok - at first I send him the tracking info, and then wait - not much I can do.

He emails me back "I know what it says but I never got it". I then go through the usual "ask your neighbors and the carrier stuff" and his reply to me gets nasty.

case 1) he opens a case against me for INR and escalates it. I call eBay, eBay looks at the info and says "you are in the right - his issue" and then they close the case. I think "yay - for ONCE on this gd d@mn site - I win a case and it works like its supposed to! (honestly I almost fell off my chair ... "eBay WORKS". ....... well until case 2.

case 2) As Marie said correctly, the flawed system lets you as a buyer open a case with Paypal too (separate companies blah blah blah). K - I get the case at 2 AM, and Paypal puts a hold on the funds, and DEMANDS I reenter the tracking info. Ok they are dopes, since the label was bought on eBay THROUGH them. 2018 or not, they are lazy sobs and I the next morning call Paypal and go through the speech AND point the Paypal guy to eBays closing of the case AND the email where the buyer acknowledges its shows delivered .... even though he "never got it". Fine, its between him and Paypal, and they were going to make him whole - regardless of "what really happened". Took a 15 min phone call to get Paypal to close the case. Why? "well we have to let him file the case even though eBay closed it against him" ??? ok fine - but Im up 2 to 0 so far.

Knowing that he couldnt win on INR, he then the next morning filed a SNAD on eBay.

case #3)  I called eBay again to find out what to do. I was "scared" since USPS says he got it, and so eBay thinks he does have it (as well as any money Paypal gave him) so now he can file that SNAD and send me a rock.

For those keeping track - that means that one customer who lost 2 cases so far, said that he never got it in his email, was allowed to open yet another case (case #3).

The way I handle eBay (generally). I USED to call and rant and rave and call them every name in the book - using words even a sailor never knew ... (im no fan of being taken advantage of etc (read stolen from by the goons in San Jose). These days (last 2-3 yrs - I use the "you get more flies with honey then you do with vinegar" option.

I called and sweat talked that CS girl from the Philippians like I was a 16yr old in school. I told her how nice she was and how THANKFUL I was that SHE - miss your so special and the best CS agent a guy could EVER have - was helping me. I told her that it wasnt fair that the guy lied and was allowed to keep opening cases, changing his complaint to a new one as each one before it FAILED.

Well dear viewers - I was the victor yet again. eBay closed the case and I got my funds back (they were held a second time by my friends at Paypal - who told me that even though they are 2 different companies, their allegiance was to eBay and not me - its not PERSONAL - its simply MONEY - they give Paypal more business then I do ... so they listen to them and not me! (but I already knew that).

The CS girl told me ONE MORE THING - that because of my history with eBay (time as a seller, account health etc) that was what convinced them that I was in the "right". NOt RIGHT but "right". The buyers past statements (in eBay email) were not relevant - as he "could say he actually DID get it" (and the end) and that if it wasnt for my record - they would have ruled in his favor - and he would have sent me back ANYTHING ..... (since we both know he "didnt have it".)

He didnt find it somewhere, he lied from begining to end.

The moral here - isnt how nice I can be to Filipino women, how separate eBay and Paypal are, hoe neither REALLY are looking out for my interests .... but that a buyer can keep opening cases until "the cows come home", and you can as the buyer - keep loosing yet get more chances for bites at the same apple.

Stories like the OPs and mine are common on eBay - since the outcomes of cases are predetermined by eBay from the outset - Seller wrong, buyer right.

Its the San Jose Mafia in action!  

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by: maxmad This user has validated their user name.

Fri Oct 12 07:59:16 2018


Time and Money wasted , and a Big Fat Red Donut for your trouble, Have a nice day , thank you for using ebay

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This user has validated their user name. by: CanBrit

Fri Oct 12 14:07:44 2018

@pace306

I am amazed you were able to fight through that. I would have been in bed for a week afterwards....lol.

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by: hopeforthebest This user has validated their user name.

Sat Oct 13 19:40:44 2018

Don't get all excited - next he can open a complaint against you with his credit card if he used it to fund his paypal purchase, and take yet ANOTHER bite at the apple!

Good luck!

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by: Barbbie This user has validated their user name.

Mon Oct 15 01:15:33 2018

I have had several buyers over the years open numerous cases with paypal, usually they start out with a not received, then some BS excuse like snad but I always refer to case 1 where I won and then win case 2, then by case number 3 the buyer wins as they finally call it an "unauthorized purchase" and paypal funds it themselves. I always thought they were dumb for doing it, I mean didn't these people just send 2 other cases with differing stories.  

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by: Tiffee Jasso This user has validated their user name.

Mon Oct 15 02:00:23 2018

I had a big time Bay Area high-ticket seller buy a designer tie. He told me if was counterfeit. It was not, I had researched the various labels, and so told him to send it back and I would pay the shipping both ways and give it to my grandson. He said never mind he had decided it was a legitimate piece. I wonder how many designer items he gets free of charge because he bullies buyers. The tie was worth quite a bit more than I sold it for, but you have to have a better market than Ebay to get that price.  

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This user has validated their user name. by: LasVagueness

Mon Oct 15 02:35:43 2018

I can attest to comments left by @Snapped. Sellers need to be certain of authenticity before selling on eBay. eBay has been known to instruct buyers to destroy counterfeit merchandise.  

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by: Disgruntled_Seller This user has validated their user name.

Mon Oct 15 09:19:20 2018

You can head a lot of these INR off at the start. The USPS carrier is supposed to get a delivery scan at the time and location of parcel delivery. Emphasis on supposed to. The delivery scan will contain the GPS coordinates of the parcel delivery. You have the right to these coordinates simply by asking your Post Master or counter staff either at the counter or via the phone.

We ship 100s of parcels daily via USPS. A certain percentage of those customers claim non receipt even though it shows delivered in the tracking information. What we do is take the customer address and map it in google maps. Next we take the GPS coordinates and map those in google maps. Many times we find the customer is correct and the two map checks show two different locations. At this point we call the local Post Master to contact the delivering facility for resolution, mainly go get it and take it to the correct address. Or we call ourselves. At the point, the customer isn't really at fault, so we work a little harder getting it resolved for them. We usually find the delivering carrier was a temp who didn't know the route, or worse a carrier who knowing delivered at a wrong address because they missed the delivery point and didn't want to back track. The war stores go on, but without holding carrier's responsible financially this won't get better.

Now, if we find the address and the GPS coordinates are a match, we know either the customer is scamming us, someone in their residence has it, or it is in a lock box and the carrier either failed to leave a note/key or the customer is clueless. We present the customer with the facts of the matter right up front concerning the match of the address and delivery GPS coordinates and indicate if they cannot locate the Post Master will have the carrier contact them. 90% of the time, they seemingly find the parcel. The other 10% of the time, we are properly prepared to document our case with the delivery facts in the event the INR is escalated.

Moral of the story, as a merchant you should not rely on the delivery tracking indications only, request the additional information to substantiate the delivery.



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