Amazon Helps eBay Deliver for You

by: The Not So New Guy

@EvilCorpBay

I asked for proof of harm, tangible proof, you offered none. The reason? There is none. Hard to prove tangibly what is nonexistent.

If there's "proof" then show it, opinions are like orifices, we all have them.

As to laws against drop shipping, there are zero. You feel otherwise? Proof is all I'm looking for. Post the code, section and verse. Can't? I know, because there is none.

by: The Not So New Guy

@Marie

Open minded, honest, respectful, and responsible. One of the few people who continually posts and posts reality without closed minded opinions of intolerance. If I knew you I'd buy you a cup of coffee. Love your posts.

Don't bother asking Evil for law or code regarding drop shipping, none exists. It's neither unethical nor illegal anywhere in the USA. It's smart business, when done right, and as suggested not everyone has the aptitude to figure out how to do it right.

Amazon, as I said prior has a policy, and as evil admits it's not the issue though he keeps mentioning it. Besides it doesn't apply to fulfilling from Amazon to eBay only vice versa which is not relevant here.

There are tons of awesome drop shippers out there. And again it depends on what you even want to call a drop shipper. I see many sites that say "ships from manufacturer" makes perfect sense, and technically they are a drop shipper too.

I routinely have CA call us and say we have "xyz to sell" can you list it and we'll ship it? Why should I bring it to the East Coast when they are perfectly capable of shipping it? I always add correct time, and always state where in the country it's shipping from and if a buyer is unhappy at any time I'm happy to make it right. When and if there's a return if they're closer to CA they ship it back west coast, otherwise if closer to East it comes here. Better and faster for all involved.

It's so silly to think a drop ship model will ruin a site, and it's even worse to say "the information is there" but refuse to show it. Let's all grow up and accept the fact that it's not always cost effective or smart to move product just for the sake of having my fingers on it. You look at IBM, Lenovo, Dell, HP, Compaq, etc. They are all shipping replacement parts from centralized 3rd party fulfillment centers to their customers. They do it because it makes sense.

Oh, and as a final thought Amazon is offering FBA for any and all channels. So it is 1000% possible for me to warehouse and ship my merchandise at Amazon and ship to my eBay buyers or Walmart buyers and or anywhere else. So in the words of Mr Wonderful- Stop the madness.

As to Prime or not Prime, I agree, I don't think it's smart to risk an account. But it's not my decision, if someone else feels it is, and they do it, that's on them. If Amazon wants to do something about it, then let them. All I want to know is I order my widget, and I get my widget. I'm happy, the end.  

by: Marie

@ the not so new guy

Thank you for the kind words, it is refreshing.

Drop shipping on Ebay is being talked about on this blog as if it is a new thing.  When in fact it has been around from almost the beginning of Ebay. It hasn't been a problem on Ebay as a whole.  It has been a problem for some sellers over the years because they didn't do their job responsibly, so those sellers are short lived on Ebay.  The rules & stats Ebay has for selling will weed the bad drop shipping sellers off the site in due time.

I like what you said about how you label or describe your listings if it is a drop shipped item.  It will save you grief from Ebay as well as your buyers.  Ebay requires that the sellers accurately state the location of the item.  So if you typically ship from your home in and have your listing stating you are in Session, Oregon, that is perfect.  But if you start drop shipping, then your listing is required to state where the item is being shipped from.  So if it is coming from Comey, NC, then your listing is suppose to say that.

Putting in your description the fact that it is a drop ship item is not required by Ebay as you know.  And I stand by what I said earlier, buyers do not have the right to know who my vendors are.  Even when drop shipping.  It is the seller's job to take care of the buyer properly.

I'd venture a guess that some people that have posted on this blog has received at some time or another an item they purchased on Ebay that was drop shipped and they didn't even know it.

by: The Not So New Guy

@Marie

I see you take a lot around here. I don't post too much simply because I don't want to hear it. But you have some good backbone and stand up for what you feel is right. It's nice to read.

It's true how everyone acts like it's a new thing when it isn't, and has been around since mail order began, even before there were internet sales.

I just do everything with what makes sense in mind. I'm aware people, even myself, buy from people closer so it arrives faster. With that in mind listing it coming from the east and shipping from the west doesn't seem right, or make sense. Recently ordered something from someone that clearly had images "USA seller" and shipped from China. I was ticked off. Mostly I needed it now and they missed the delivery date by 2 weeks. But also because I could've bought it from China for half the price if I was willing to wait. I wouldn't want that to happen to my customers.

I'm willing to bet hard money that some people posting have indeed been drop shipped and didn't even know it. When properly done it is virtually seamless.

The thing I love most about reading some posts though is simply "Believe me, I know, I wouldn't say it if it wasn't true, with no proof, no evidence, no cites". Let's try that when next we're in court, tell the judge, "believe me, he is guilty or innocent, I know it, I believe it, it's the truth, I wouldn't say it if it wasn't true". See how far that's going to get.  

by: Snapped

@ the not so new guy

Your labeling a potential customer's desire to acertain the source of a product as ''self serving malarkey'' and unworthy the of consideration is character revealing, especially in the manner presented.  As in, would I want to do any business with such character?

But to your questions -

In the case of increased fulfillment problems that are possible with dropshipping, lack of timely quantity updating from the vendor leading to 'out of stock' delays, and transcription errors by 'additional' parties in the fulfillment chain are at least two factual potentials that are reduced or eliminated by simply not being existent to the same degree, or if at all, by an owner-seller.   And when they do occur via the latter, they are much easier to discern and correct, since there are fewer 'entities' in the chain with potential to have 'caused' any issue.  

One doesn't need over-funded analysis and 'numbers' to see these tangible elements, though it's certainly a understandable to require data before any ability to be declarative about 'liklihood'.  

My bad for believing such examples be understood as such.  They clearly don't define increased 'liklihood', but they DO represent more opportunities, thus increased potential.  

You write ''Neither I nor any seller cares what trepidation or issue a buyer has buying from a drop shipper, or any specific company. Nor is a buyer owed any explanation as to where an item is coming from despite his or her own thoughts to the contrary. ''

Setting aside how one can claim to speak for ''any other seller'' viewpoints, I believe it has been...factually....demonstrated in many ways, that in business, one who demonstrates disdain for any customer's desire is going to lose many of those customers.  I would thus contend that your declaration may not be as popular as portrayed.

Of course, there are plenty who would rather not reveal to a buyer who doesn't want their item drop-shipped from Beijing that's what to expect.  And to be sure, no law compels such, never an argument there.  

But if it shouldn't matter, and isn't an issue, then what's the harm of doing it?  Because of misperceptions, accordingly?  That those who allegedly hold them have no right to?  Because someone ne might think it a ''flaw'' (your subjective word, not mine; I called it an ''attribute'', which it is.  Objectively.)

But if such is the fear, then stand on your record.  Acknowledge the concern, and reassure with your OWN 'facts'.  

Alternately, obfuscate, name call, disparage, block and contend.  

Incidentally, every item ''made'' already identifies it's origin (e.g. Made in China).  By law.  Because when folks asked, turns out they DO have a right to know an item's origin.

by: The Not So New Guy

@ Snapped

It's excellent that my character is out in the open. Define it properly- I don't suffer fools. If your goal is to "ascertain my source" feel free to go elsewhere, I recommend you do. If your goal is to purchase a widget I sell, get it, get it as advertised, and be happy with it, then you're in the right place. If more than a simple transaction is your goal, I implore you- Go elsewhere. I have neither the time nor the patience.

Under "to my questions";

Paragraph 1, shows no harm. If you are a poor drop shipper and disappoint your customers you will be quickly weeded out. Further, there is always potential for anything, whether a drop shipper or you have the inventory.

Paragraph 2, again shows no tangible proof of harm to the chain.

Paragraph 3, again shows no tangible harm. No the guessed at "likely hood" of something is not proof of harm. You show no purport of breach, nor a presumption of breach, just a "maybe something could happen". That's not harm. Hell anything can happen at any time. That's not presumptive breach, that's life.

Paragraph 4, is indeed a true quote.

Paragraph 5, is a distortion of the facts. I stand behind paragraph 4 and add I show no disdain for customers viewpoints that have real merit and will do all I can for any buyer with a valid issue. A customer saying "I wanted my item in plastic wrap and you packed it in a box" is not a valid opinion I would care about anymore than the opinion at hand. If you as a customer deem that an important issue you should contact prior to the sale and ask so that the seller can tell you if he desires to the answers to your questions. Or ignore you so you can go elsewhere, if he so desires, or plain tell you it's none of your business.

Paragraph 6, to the first portion I believe if you are a US seller drop shipping from a foreign country you should disclose that in your "ships from area", not that you are a drop shipper, but where it will ship from, and as I stated above in a prior post if an East Coast seller drops from the West Coast it should also be disclosed in the same manner. Do not confuse that with advising a buyer that this a drop ship from my source or anything else. It is merely a way that people know how long delivery will take, and honesty in shipping. It is not your business whether it is my inventory I am shipping or my suppliers, but I don't hesitate to tell you "where" it will ship from so you don't think I'm in NY you're in NY and it'll be there in one day and then it takes a week to arrive. That is bad business. To your second statement on the law, we agree.

Paragraph 7, the issue is you are making it an issue. You have some reason to make it an issue. If it's your issue then the burden is on you to ask, not me to disclose. If it's a flaw the burden is on me to disclose. Do you follow? If not, here's an example, and a true one. - Monday morning a buyer buys a widget, and pays for the widget. An hour later they message - "Dear seller, I have a severe allergy to paper, and cardboard products. I am letting you know that you need to ship this product in only plastic." Now let's not get into whether or not we have plastic or how we normally ship or anything else. The point is this is your issue (the buyers issue), and if they needed this service it is incumbent on them to message prior to purchase with their issue and ask. Not make contact after the fact and make their issue our issue. Just imagine you tried this at Amazon, or Walmart.com or anywhere else. This baloney only seems to happen on eBay. That is my point. My flaw, my disclosure. Your flaw, your disclosure.

Paragraph 8, and 9, there's no fear, I am not required to disclose that I am drop shipping. As you agreed prior and pointed out. I am happy to advise where product is shipping from, there is a significant difference I believe we are failing to communicate on.

Paragraph 10, the statement of origin is again a totally different issue than the one here.

Look, let's break this down to it's most simple 3rd grade conversation. People here want to say "Drop shippers are ruining eBay". Ok, cool, you said it, I heard you. Now, I want you to prove it, I want someone to show a case of harm, real tangible harm. For example, when I say - Chinese sellers selling the same product are hurting my business, and someone in the office says - That's a dumb comment how can that be? I say, Here's the proof - Chinese seller is selling widget for $2 delivered from China to CA. For me to just ship the widget will cost $2.70. No way I can beat the price and so that hurts my business. this is what we refer to in the real world as proof. It is not conjecture, not assumption, not my opinion, not my statement and "believe me it's true". You can feel it, touch it, taste it, see it, and believe it because it's a provable fact.

So in closing, if you want me to believe that "Drop shipping is hurting, killing, or otherwise harming eBay", all I ask is prove it. Can you do that? If so I'll happily say "Man was I wrong, and pat you on the back." Otherwise get down off your soapbox, and stop saying it.  

by: Marie

@snapped

Buyers are not entitled to know the company/vendor in which a seller gets the items they are selling.  If that was correct, it sure would blow things up for many sellers.  If the buyer did get this info, then they might be able to go directly to the source to purchase from in the future or maybe even set themselves up to be a drop shipper.

If you feel a buyer has the right to this information, is that only limited to drop shippers or does a buyer have the right to know from whom you buy other items you are selling?  Where is the line drawn and why?

Your concerns about some drop shippers is very realistic.  But if they are selling on Ebay and if they do business as you describe, the Ebay rules for selling and defects will eat them alive in short order.

Further, as I've stated before per Ebay selling rules, your listing is suppose to be set up with an accurate location of the item being sold.  If you live in Green, ND but your vendor you are using as a drop shipper is in Candy, NY, then for those listings it should say Candy, NY.  In your example you have concern it is coming from outside the USA, then the location on the listing should reflect that.

Knowing or disclosing where an item is made is not the same thing as disclosing the company you use as your drop shipper.  The two are NOT the same thing.

Someone might be selling Trump Ties that are drop shipped from their NY store.  These ties are made in China, but that is NOT where they are shipping from, they will ship from NY.

There are good drop shippers and there are bad drop shippers.  Just as there are good sellers that stock their own inventory and bad sellers that stock their own inventory.  

For some reason the act of drop shipping is offensive to some.  Not sure why.  If your buying on Ebay, you are pretty well protected.  It could be that some would do it themselves but can't figure out how to do it successfully.  Others think it is easy to be a drop shipper, when in reality if you are going to be a responsible drop shipper it is a heck of a lot of work managing the inventory so that you don't sell OOS [out of stock] items.

by: The Not So New Guy

@ Marie

"... it is a heck of a lot of work managing the inventory so that you don't sell OOS [out of stock] items."  Don't forget to add the amount of work it takes when a buyer receives a defective item, or just changes their mind. There's a whole layer of added work on buyers remorse items, and defective items if you are a quality drop shipper, and wish to service your customers properly.