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Mon June 9 2014 11:07:42

New eBay Defect Rating System Counts Buyer Mistakes

By: Reader

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Dear Ina,
I have been going back and forth with my "dedicated" eBay sales rep over the new ODR (order defect rate) system implementing. At first I was trying to see if they would remove unwarranted defects from my account which they will not no matter how obvious they are.

"eBay is allowing a 2% buffer for errors" is what I was told so I quickly did the math. 8 out of the newest 20 defects were all mistakes by the buyer or eBay having an awful system. This equates to 40% and the reasons that I tried removing are:

One customer opened 2 claims "I am sorry but I gave you guys the wrong address can you please re ship to the new one."

This was 2 defective orders eBay would not remove.

We would normally go out of the way to pay out of pocket to re-ship for the customer but now with the new system we have no incentive - we might as well tell the customer, sorry you messed up and can't reverse the defect, contact eBay for help.

That one is the most absurd but the rest of the 7 included "hey can I get a tracking update" ... Or, "all I wanted to do was email you but when I followed the contact seller directions on eBay it steered me towards opening a case sorry."

We have 58 out of 60 "item not arrived" claims showing as delivered ahead of schedule. eBay's system would be fine if they just counted actual defects and non-arrivals and not anyone who wants to email us.

My 2.2% defect rate (going to lose TRS) would be down to under .50% if the unjustified defects where cleared up. They need to make changes immediately.
Jordan

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Readers Comments

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by: Tornad0sRul This user has validated their user name.

Tue Jun 10 14:51:26 2014

Here's another "defect" that sellers are now expected to take in the shorts. Recently there have been countries that the USPS has now blocked from allowing Priority Mail labels to be printed. You must drive to the post office to have the labels printed (and I am not even sure if they will do it there), and you cannot even print Priority Mail labels on their website for certain "blocked" countries.

Just today I sold something to a buyer in the Ukraine. The buyer chose "Priority Mail International" which is the only option. I don't have that country blocked but in all of my listings I DO NOT offer any other international shipping options except for Priority Mail.  I never offer First Class Mail International in my listings.  Even so, when I tried to print the shipping label for the item to Ukraine, it will only allow me to print First Class International Mail (which wasn't and isn't an option in my listing).  It would not even show any other options for shipping except for First Class International.  I called EBay and of course the representative had a strong accent making it difficult to understand her and she didn't understand me most of the time.  She told me to go to the USPS website and try printing the label there, which I did and the USPS website also would not allow Priority Mail for Ukraine.  The EBay customer service rep also told me to drive to the post office and purchase the postage there, which would cost me $5 in gas taking away any profit that I may have.  I told the rep that it wasn't fair that I had to drive to the post office to print a label for a country that is blocked from Priority Mail shipping, especially when the only option in my listing is PRIORITY MAIL!  The Ebay rep then told me that if I tried to cancel the transaction that I would get a defect for sure.  Nice.  Just another way to hurt sellers.

Perminate Link for New eBay Defect Rating System Counts Buyer Mistake   New eBay Defect Rating System Counts Buyer Mistake

This user has validated their user name. by: Marie

Tue Jun 10 14:56:02 2014

Oh Yes they are.  I completely agree with Jack.  It was BY DESIGN.  Ebay has even said it was BY DESIGN.  

Before they started this, what was announced to us was that they were going to REQUIRE buyers to contact sellers BEFORE opening a claim and allow a seller 72 hrs to respond and resolve.  Then after that if the buyer still felt the need to open a claim, they could.

Ebay delayed the roll out of that a couple of times.  Each time with some excuse.  Then finally they announced the change was coming but instead of doing what they originally announced they came up with a better program and this is what we have.  

It was just Ebay breaking promises once again.  Instead of giving buyers and sellers a useful tool that helped EVERYONE to avoid conflict, they gave the buyers a tool to create conflict and foster problems between trading partners.  This policy does NOTHING to promote a healthy trading environment and does a great deal to harm it.

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by: MovinOn This user has validated their user name.

Tue Jun 10 14:57:12 2014

We are sick and tired of the ever-worsening treatment by ebay, from the ever-increasing fees, requiring us to accept returns for 14 days, allowing buyers to scam the seller with absolutely no recourse other than blocking that buyer, and making us pay for return shipping, tying up the money in Paypal when a buyer just asks where their item is, and on and on and on, and then blaming the seller for anything and everything that goes wrong, including shipping delays. Now the last straw is calling us defective for accepting the returns that they said we had to accept, even if it is a case where the buyer stole parts off the item to make it not work, kept the parts, and returned it as SNAD.

Ebay doesn't care if we lose more money on one return than we made on the last 20 sales. All they care is that they get their high fees on the transaction.

Using ebay's latest scheme, most sellers, including me, will have a defect rate great than 2%, we should all just quit selling on ebay on Aug. 20. That's what I will be doing. It's just not worth it any more. I am already setting up accounts on other sites in preparation for this. Even if, by some miracle, I don't lose my TRS on that date, I absolutely will quit selling when ebay requires extended returns. I should have all of my listings transferred over to other sites well before then, anyway.

Ebay stock is down to $48 and pocket change today. It's easy to see why. JD obviously still doesn't realize it yet, but he is driving ebay into the ground.

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This user has validated their user name. by: bitbybit

Tue Jun 10 17:17:50 2014

MovinOn is absolutely right with having a plan set by August 20. I do think IMO those sellers who do not offer a 90 day return this holiday system will have their items become invisible in search. Why put forth any more effort on ebay after August? This August defect and holiday returns is ebay's one-two punch on sellers. Haven't we all had enough?

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by: darcymarcy This user has validated their user name.

Tue Jun 10 17:30:32 2014

my most recent defects are for cancelled order/out of stock  when the same buyer purchased five identical teaspoons one at a time from a multi-variation listing   as the total sale was but $15, i refunded all five and re-invoiced her, she paid, i shipped, she left positive feedback, and i got 5 defects.  i never filed any sort of paperwork with ebay, simply (foolishly) made the decision to try to minimize paypal fees on this small transaction.  why a buyer would do this?  clueless, but if i stay on yearly evaluation, i lose trs status come aug 20.

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by: JBC This user has validated their user name.
Web Site

Tue Jun 10 18:47:34 2014

Almost all of us will lose our 20%. It's what eBay wants. It what will make more money for eBay. And, best of all, we will continue to strive toward that goal... providing TRS service (as we have) all to the benefit of eBay.
I sell 5K+ $2-5 baseball cards a year. I mail the First Class letter with the Intelligent Mail Barcode (all US Mail has it). That barcode gets scanned by the local delivering post office. (It's how they get revenue from the postage) It is stored in the USPS Explorer data base. You can use the web above.
This is a verifiable scan. But eBay won't allow it as part of their verifiable scan requirement in August. It isn't ONLINE TRACKING , but it is a verifiable scan. This should count toward the requirement for TSR even though it will not qualify for PayPal's buyer protection (delivery confirmation) So my $20K +/- in sales will never see the light of day of the 20% discount. Again, it's good for eBay.

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by: JBC This user has validated their user name.

Tue Jun 10 18:50:33 2014

a first class letter example you can plug in: 00040000745132757476

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by: JBC This user has validated their user name.

Tue Jun 10 19:00:35 2014

I will not offer 90 day return.
If you sell any kind of "collectable", you can't make such an offer.
Prices on eBay generally drop as interest in the "new/hot" item drops. In 90 days, almost any items can be found for 99 cents once interest has faded.
It is the equivalent of stocks, bonds, etc. If you buy today and the price drops in the next 90 days, can you return the stock for purchase price. NOOOOOOO!!!!!!
But the hot rookie card that get $200 today, then he breaks his leg and is out of baseball, can be returned for purchase price even though the current market value is $10.
?????

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This user has validated their user name. by: Puck

Tue Jun 10 19:21:27 2014

''Let's call a Spade a Spade.  ''Ebay wants NO TRS in the Mom & Pop stores.''

Correct.
When eBay launched the TRS program as a seller sop following a large fee increase, they didn't project so many accounts would achieve and maintain the status.

After years of tightening the qualification screws, the Seller Defect pogrom was introduced to finally eradicate that pesky 20% FVF discount that seemed to have more lives than a cat.

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This user has validated their user name. by: Marie

Tue Jun 10 21:22:18 2014

@PUCK

These new policies are not just going to affect Mom & Pop size stores.  

There will be some large sellers with issues because of  defect rates.  And much will be very visible to other members.  Meaning, watch some large sellers that have high negative and neutrals on their account.  Each is a defect.  On some accounts you will be able to see that they should have issues because they have a high rate.  And if so many people have issues with them, there are bound to be plenty of claims filed where the buyers hadn't left FB yet.  So those are defect too.

This will be very interesting on how it impacts large sellers and how Ebay reacts to that.

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by: Xander This user has validated their user name.

Wed Jun 11 01:21:16 2014

When it comes to large sellers, one has to wonder about those special deals ebay has offered many of their coveted sellers.  

What about ''Permanent Override''?

Why wouldn't they also offer specially tiered variations of it?

Partial override until percentages reach critical mass, then more override to keep the percentage below 2?

I agree with many posters, regardless of size, ebay has become non viable for so many sellers.

Unless you're on the special protected list, Aug may prove to be the end of days for many ebay sellers.

It's smart to get your products on other venues and/or your own site.

The internet was once the last free frontier, those days are gone. We're entering another new era of online sales.

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by: jaydee This user has validated their user name.

Wed Jun 11 05:56:24 2014

No reason to give up ebay all at once, just keep adding your items to other selling venues and slowly but surely you won't need ebay, it's kind of a natural progression.

Use your hard earned ebay feedback to promote sales on other venues and your website, your ebay feedback gives customers confidence to buy.

Only keep some of your low selling items at a higher price listed on ebay, just to maintain your user id, no sales = no defect = no stress

This company is starting to tank, they are going down, and it's FUN to watch, and we are going to help as much as we can.  

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by: MovinOn This user has validated their user name.

Wed Jun 11 09:19:45 2014

Ebay obviously doesn't want us small sellers on ebay. They are making it nearly impossible to maintain TRS status. Once we lose that, our items are lowered in search results, making it even harder to sell. This will be good for competing online selling web sites, and eventually good for the sellers who move there. I can't see what's in it for ebay, though. JD continues running ebay into the ground. Losing sellers is also losing buyers. The stock price is up a few cents today, but still close to the 52-week low at $48 and pocket change. I predict it will be under $40 by mid-September after the quarterly earnings report comes out.

Who in their right mind would call it a seller defect when:

- A buyer asks where their package is when the tracking already shows it has been delivered

- A package is delayed by USPS, UPS, Fedex or other carrier due to weather or the occasional misrouting

- A buyer changes his/her mind and cancels an order

- A seller cancels multiple orders from the same buyer and rebills them to combine shipping

- A buyer didn't read the desription, which is accurate, and expected a brand new item for 1/3 of the retail price

- A buyer complains that shipping it too high, because Amazon sells the same item at 3X the price, but offers ''Free Super Saver Shipping''

- A buyer swaps out the working item they received for their broken item, or removes the parts they need to fix their broken item, and returns the broken item for a full refund and return shipping, claiming it isn't as described

Ebay has become an online shoplifters paradise. Of course, management that is filled with crime and corruption breeds customers filled with crime and corruption, and blames the sellers for everything. Sellers who stay with ebay are succumbing themselves to this abuse.

I run spot checks of search results for my items. I have 100% FB and TRS, and often have prices 30% to 50% lower than competitors prices, yet my items usually come out near the end of the search results. Other items with higher prices, and from sellers that are not TRS, come out higher in search results. Why??? Probably because ebay stands to make more money from the higher-priced item. Maybe because I have a few ''defects'' from customer abuse similar to the cases desribed above. Maybe it's because their tracking cookies monitor which web sites I go to, such as this one. With the ever-increasing seller abuse, and lower sell-through rate, why should I stay on ebay? I'm having trouble finding a good reason.

I'm MovinOn to other venues. I have already transferred over half of my inventory to other sites, and expect to have the rest finished by Aug. 20. I will probably leave 30 or 40 items listed then, and cancel all abruptly when I lose my TRS. If somehow I don't lose my TRS then, I may leave those items listed until Nov. 1 and cancel everything then, out of protest over the extended holiday return policy.

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by: jaydee This user has validated their user name.

Wed Jun 11 10:27:13 2014

MovinOn

I would have to agree, having TRS is absolutely meaningless to ebay search status.


Just another one of the many ebay bold face LIES to their so called valued customers,

I truly understand your upset,

Really, how many times does it take to get slapped in the face before we get the message, 10, 20, 50, times ?
is that enough?

We get the message ebay, we understand.

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This user has validated their user name. by: baconsdozen
Web Site

Wed Jun 11 16:37:59 2014

Selling on ebay is getting like trying to strike a match on jelly.

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by: MovinOn This user has validated their user name.

Thu Jun 12 03:06:12 2014

Maybe ebay will take note if millions of listings are cancelled on Aug. 20, and possibly millions more on Nov. 1. JD will probably smile to see many of the small sellers quit selling on ebay. I still don't see his motivation for doing so.

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by: tbyr This user has validated their user name.

Thu Jun 12 05:45:12 2014

Just recived today email from buyer this is what ebay wants us to deal with so they can toss get defects agaust us and eventually get rid of us all for doing nothing wrong:

I had a buyer buy a 10.00 item who did not pay nor did they send me any emails until I put in a dispute on them then I recieved this email this morning:
and paying for this item then sticking me with do not ship until till June 20th.  So now either way I will get a defect/default or negative comment either way to go and I did nothing wrong.


Dear Buyer I recived this message from you:
From Buyer
9:30 PM (8 hours ago)
to me
Hi:
First---Sorry I didn't pay right away---I was having a medical procedure and didn't get to see that I'd won.
Second-- Please DON'T SEND IT TO ME before FRIDAY June 20th as I won't be available to
               receive it .
Sorry again and Thanks again for HOLDING it 'til then.
Wendy Lee Klenetsky -61 Helen Avenue - Freehold, NJ 07728

My answer to XXX is:
I am sorry about your medical procedure:


I am required to ship to within 24 hours: and if I do not I will get a defect/default from ebay and loose my discount on my FVF. And because of this I can lose my Top Rated Seller status and I have to live with this defect/default for one year. As required by ebay I will be shipping today. You must have to someone pick up your mail for you. Or request a refund to me before 10:00AM today.  

XXXX

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by: hogwarth This user has validated their user name.

Sat Jun 14 12:57:56 2014

went to post office last week and dropped off packages, for some reason the clerk scanned all my packages delivered right away, i quickly messages all my buyers and told them what happened, good thing i did as few wanted to open case against me, so i should pay with a defect if my post office makes a mistake

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This user has validated their user name. by: Don Wagner

Sat Jun 14 16:57:52 2014

Hello Jordan - Very nice facts & data analysis of a genuine problem. I grow weary of the 'eBay sucks' emotional rants.

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by: jaydee This user has validated their user name.

Sat Jun 21 07:38:54 2014

Ebay the most RUTHLESS company on earth

Buyer enails us 3 months after his purchase, says he cannot use the products he purchases, to complete his backyard project, due to open heart surgery, and kindly asks us if he could return the un-opened un-used item

As kind, and understanding people we were raised to be, we immediately refunded his money thru paypal, and to help the guy out we even said not to return the item, maybe one day when he is healed he can finish the project.

EBAY GIVES US A DEFECT STRIKE.

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