Ina Steiner EcommerceBytes Blog
News and insight focusing on ecommerce.
by Ina Steiner, Editor of EcommerceBytes.com
Sat Aug 28 2021 21:30:02

Does eBay Payments Have a Chargeback Problem?

By: Ina Steiner

Sponsored Link

Sellers are increasingly exposed to the new way eBay handles chargebacks under its Payments system compared to how they were handled under PayPal, and some are finding it unsatisfactory. (But don't call it a "chargeback" problem - eBay has done away with that term.)

The issue came up during eBay's weekly chat session on Wednesday when a seller said the system for rebutting chargebacks under eBay Managed Payments is different and not as robust as PayPal's was in the event of a fraudulent transaction.

It's a costly issue, since eBay, like PayPal, charges sellers $20 if the financial institution sides with the buyer in a chargeback dispute.

Buyers always had the option of filing a chargeback through PayPal, but some say scammers find it easier to do so through eBay Payments. Sellers discussed the issue in this thread on the eBay boards, where one seller noted sellers had the opportunity to appeal a chargeback through PayPal, but not through eBay Payments.

And at least PayPal did some screening before they automatically refunded the buyer, a seller said. "You could also contact PayPal and appeal your case. You cannot contact the CC company or the bank since that information is not available to you and eBay will not provide it. Under MP a chargeback is virtually an automatic refund to the buyer, no communication, no appeal, no recourse."

On Friday, a seller filed a report on Ecommerce EKG in which they described eBay's handling of chargebacks as an "exploitable eBay loophole that needs to be closed." 

The seller explained they had sold an item that arrived on time and as described. They noted that despite the fact they accept returns, the buyer opened a chargeback instead of messaging them or at least opening a claim first on eBay. 

The buyer's bank backed the chargeback and there was no way to appeal it through eBay, the seller said - he was out the part he had sold, the money for the item - and the fees. 

But according to eBay policy, "When a dispute is opened, you'll receive a notification from eBay. You must respond to the dispute within 5 calendar days of receiving the notification."

We'd like to hear from sellers how eBay handles chargebacks under Managed Payments compared to how they were handled when PayPal processed their payments on eBay. And is there something eBay could learn from how PayPal had handled chargebacks?

There's another thing worth noting about chargebacks on eBay: during the weekly chat, there was some confusion about the terminology when an eBay moderator said he was not supposed to call them "chargebacks" - they're called "payment disputes" now.

When asked, he said eBay was not trying to change the industry term of chargeback, but said from eBay's perspective, there were two types of post-transaction issues: Requests and Payment Disputes. 

"A request would be something under the eMBG - so Returns or Item not Received requests. If those aren't resolved we can be asked to step in and assist. 

"A Payment Dispute is a dispute raised by a buyer directly with the financial issuer (bank, credit card, PayPal, etc.). They can also be called "chargebacks", but we call them Payment Disputes."

(eMBG stands for eBay Money Back Guarantee.)

It would seem from the reply that eBay is also now using a different term for "claims" - calling them "requests" instead.



Comments (38) | Leave Comment | Permalink

Readers Comments

Perminate Link for Does eBay Payments Have a Chargeback Problem?   Does eBay Payments Have a Chargeback Problem?

by: COVID-19 This user has validated their user name.

Sun Aug 29 00:45:41 2021

Just eBay being eBay, stepping on sellers to get higher stock prices.

Perminate Link for Does eBay Payments Have a Chargeback Problem?   Does eBay Payments Have a Chargeback Problem?

This user has validated their user name. by: toolguy

Sun Aug 29 01:46:03 2021

I had zero charge backs when I only accepted Postal Money Orders!

With that system I as a seller could NEVER be ripped off, the way it should be for honest sellers who take returns.

Perminate Link for Does eBay Payments Have a Chargeback Problem?   Does eBay Payments Have a Chargeback Problem?

by: Old School Seller This user has validated their user name.

Sun Aug 29 08:46:41 2021

Just wait until unsuspecting sellers get slapped with a 1099-K in January 2023 because they had $600 or more in sales in 2022.  Folks will be leaving online marketplaces in DROVES because they believed that it was actually legal to run a business and not pay taxes on their online income.  I know of MANY sellers who have been getting away with this since day one, thinking they were the smart ones. Flea markets, Facebook Marketplace, Craigslist, garage sales, consignment shops and anywhere else where payment is by cash or check will all reap the benefit.  The honest marketplace sellers who are left will be burdened by never ending additional fees to compensate for the lost income until many of them are forced to leave too.  Marketplaces know this already and are already prepping for it.

Perminate Link for Does eBay Payments Have a Chargeback Problem?   Does eBay Payments Have a Chargeback Problem?

by: Smallseller This user has validated their user name.

Sun Aug 29 08:48:53 2021

Here is the way it should be done. In all situations where a chargeback is initiated, the seller should have every opportunity to provide any supporting documents, including any messages that were exchanged with the buyer, screen shot of the tracking and anything else to prove that as a seller you have fulfilled your side of the contract. There should also be an area for free form text where you can explain the situation.

Perminate Link for Does eBay Payments Have a Chargeback Problem?   Does eBay Payments Have a Chargeback Problem?

This user has validated their user name. by: toolguy

Sun Aug 29 10:14:09 2021

With a Money Order the customer could never say:

I DIDN'T ORDER THAT

Everything was much slower but the system still worked.

Bad sellers were weeded out with bad feedback, so were bad buyers!

Perminate Link for Does eBay Payments Have a Chargeback Problem?   Does eBay Payments Have a Chargeback Problem?

This user has validated their user name. by: iheartjacksparrow

Sun Aug 29 11:39:12 2021

@Smallseller - I've had two chargebacks through Stripe, and won both of them as I proved through USPS tracking that the buyers received their items. On Stripe, you can add something like eight .jpg files of correspondence, mailing receipts, screen caps of USPS delivery information, etc. You also get a huge text block to state your case. And you have around 20 days to submit your information. Stripe obviously has a better system that Mangled Payments.  

Perminate Link for Does eBay Payments Have a Chargeback Problem?   Does eBay Payments Have a Chargeback Problem?

by: Silver Ice King This user has validated their user name.

Sun Aug 29 15:03:45 2021

Of course Ebay has a Chargeback problem but as usual will never admit to it, even changing the name of the chargeback so they can play their usual games.  Ebay has a fiduciary responsibility to assist sellers with their chargebacks but refuses to spend the money necessary to do so.  They also are always looking for new ways to dig deeper into the sellers pockets and what easier way is there and just ignoring another one of their many problems since they make $20 on each one of them.

Buyers are already learning to not even bother using the Ebay claim system to help them with their theft since Ebay will assist them by not fighting the chargebacks.  The buyers banks are always going to find in favor of the buyer because that is their client, not Ebay nor the Seller and Ebay knows this.  Mangled Payments was set up to extract the  maximum amount of money possible from sellers through many different methods like delaying releasing the sellers funds, charging the incorrect amount of money on the sale and now the Chargeback fees that they are going to continue to collect all while claiming they are keeping Sellers best interest in play.

Enjoy the class action lawsuit you wind up with Ebay for violating your fiduciary responsibility to your true customers, the sellers who you have forced into your money making machine.  They are no different than when the mobs ran the casinos in Vegas and all the games were rigged in some way so that the house almost always won.

Perminate Link for Does eBay Payments Have a Chargeback Problem?   Does eBay Payments Have a Chargeback Problem?

This user has validated their user name. by: Ric

Sun Aug 29 16:01:29 2021

eBay will not change their policy and will continue to throw sellers under the bus with charge backs since they have stacked the process with a fee that brings them revenue for doing nothing.

To contest a charge back means eBay would have to dedicate staff to work the appeals.  When they can take $20.00 fee plus keep the fees from the original transaction there is zero chance eBay will dedicate staff to assist sellers.

For as much as I trust eBay, I would not be surprised to find out that eBay is faking some charge backs as they find the need to increase revenue without any significant growth in sales.

Sleep with dogs, you are gonna get fleas, and eBay is the big flea ridden dog sellers have to stop sleeping with to protect their business and profits.

Perminate Link for Does eBay Payments Have a Chargeback Problem?   Does eBay Payments Have a Chargeback Problem?

by: Shanna This user has validated their user name.

Sun Aug 29 18:01:25 2021

We were told by eBay that their payment system would be better than Paypal. With Paypal, all you needed to win a chargeback was proof of shipment, not even proof of delivery. Ebay provides the shipping address, and can see the tracking. Why are they allowing so many chargebacks to go through, just provide the CC these items and show them their customer ordered and received the items.

Why is doing the right thing so hard for eBay?

Perminate Link for Does eBay Payments Have a Chargeback Problem?   Does eBay Payments Have a Chargeback Problem?

by: mjr55 This user has validated their user name.

Sun Aug 29 18:22:07 2021

We maybe had 1 charge dispute every other month on Paypal. On MP, we are getting like 3-4 per month. I don't buy that these people are calling their CC company and filing these.

I think they are paying with PP and contacting PP for a dispute......

Yes, Ebay's whole workflow for charge disputes is SEVERELY LACKING. On INAD ones, you can only upload pics. You can't write anything. Start calling Ebay and DEMANDING they refund you due to their poor representation workflow and then watch how fast they change it. If Ebay can't provide a half-decent way for us to reply to these charge disputes then fine....but then they are going to start reimbursing us for these.  

Perminate Link for Does eBay Payments Have a Chargeback Problem?   Does eBay Payments Have a Chargeback Problem?

by: Snapped This user has validated their user name.

Sun Aug 29 18:24:15 2021

Problem?

Nah.  They file it.  eBay capitulates.  No problem.

Perminate Link for Does eBay Payments Have a Chargeback Problem?   Does eBay Payments Have a Chargeback Problem?

by: zeek6228 This user has validated their user name.

Sun Aug 29 20:26:25 2021

Chargebacks are like shoplifters. All you can do is try to avoid it but the reality is if someone wants to purchase something and then lie to their credit card company and keep it for free they probably can. The only thing really stopping them is their credit card. You can steal an item or two but the credit card won't let them make a habit out of it.

eBays rebuttal you are not even allowed to use words. You can upload one photo. All you can do is respond that you are willing to accept a return for a full refund and hope that their bank sees that they are the ones acting in bad faith.  

Perminate Link for Does eBay Payments Have a Chargeback Problem?   Does eBay Payments Have a Chargeback Problem?

by: Silver Ice King This user has validated their user name.

Sun Aug 29 21:20:28 2021

@Shanna

Why is doing the right thing so hard for eBay?

Because they no longer answer to anybody but their investors and Wall Street and the company has not grown much at all since Wenig took over and Paypal was spun off.  Carl Icahn saw that Ebay was stunting Paypals potential as other companies wanted no affiliation with Ebay in any way.  Icahn also realized that Ebay had been relying on Paypal for all the growth they were showing as well as Paypal being a cash cow so Ebays executives got lazy about trying to grow the Ecommerce Platform.

After the spinoff it became quite evident just how much Ebay was riding Paypals shirt tails and was underperforming as a company.  With the split both Ebay and Paypal stocks were valued at $30 per share and as soon as he was allowed to do so, Carl Icahn sold all of his Ebay stock and invested all that money back into Paypal, which has rewarded him many times over as their stock is now valued at $278 per share while Ebay, even with the pandemic when almost everybody was shopping online Ebays stock continued to flounder around $50 a share until a recent spike sent it to $78 per share.  This has made making the Paypal investment worth close to 4 times what Ebay is worth for Icahn and all the other shareholders.  

The only reason Ebay stock has stayed that high is due to Ebay purchasing a ton of its own Stock back from the public in an effort to push the price up with very little success.  All this floundering by Ebay while every other public Ecommerce site skyrocketed in value, even Etsy which is now at $210 despite a recent downward trend from $250 per share.  The only way that Ebay has shown any growth at all to Wall Street is to lie, cheat and steal from their so called Seller partners.

But the Ebay executives are so desperate to keep that stock price up as most of the annual bonuses are tied to that stock price and heaven forbid they not get that unreasonable annual year end bonus that not any one of them has come close to earning.  All the growth has been pinned on Ebay being able to dig deeper and deeper into the remaining sellers pockets as more and more sellers take their wares elsewhere for sale which in turn has resulted in Ebay actually finally showing and admitting to a decrease in buyers on their site.  They also had to delay their reporting of the 2nd Quarter results as they needed to find a way to put a spin on the loss of not only sellers but buyers during this pandemic and also figure out a spin to put on the Steiners lawsuit that even Wall Street would be able to swallow.

Perminate Link for Does eBay Payments Have a Chargeback Problem?   Does eBay Payments Have a Chargeback Problem?

by: WaLK-aWAY This user has validated their user name.

Sun Aug 29 23:29:33 2021

@Mjr55
"𝐼 π‘‘π‘œπ‘›'𝑑 𝑏𝑒𝑦 π‘‘β„Žπ‘Žπ‘‘ π‘‘β„Žπ‘’π‘ π‘’ π‘π‘’π‘œπ‘π‘™π‘’ π‘Žπ‘Ÿπ‘’ π‘π‘Žπ‘™π‘™π‘–π‘›π‘” π‘‘β„Žπ‘’π‘–π‘Ÿ 𝐢𝐢 π‘π‘œπ‘šπ‘π‘Žπ‘›π‘¦ π‘Žπ‘›π‘‘ 𝑓𝑖𝑙𝑖𝑛𝑔 π‘‘β„Žπ‘’π‘ π‘’."

HAA! I just HAD one of these jokers last month! It didn't completely register with me until I read your post!!
I have some residual listings left in one of my ebay accounts. I am not allowed to edit ANY of them and once an item drops off and sells, its done. I NEVER enrolled in mangled payments, nor will I ever.
I am severing my 20 year relationship with these clowns and not "Just talking about it" like most people are.

Anyhow -
I get this "chargeback" on an item that shows delivered like 3.5 weeks AFTER they received it.
ONE OF TWO THINGS HAVE HAPPENED HERE-

1. You are correct that ebay is just rolling these charge backs out to stock up on the 20.00 assets from unsuspecting individuals.
OR
2. The clueless dolt who purchased the item from me was maybe under the impression that I was in Mangled payments as everyone is SUPPOSED TO BE and didnt realize I still was only accepting Paypal . . . . who has my back.

Long story short, Paypal did indeed see the item was delivered and case was closed immediately without incident.

This company is as straight and narrow as Mulholland Drive. My contempt for them is beyond explanation.

Perminate Link for Does eBay Payments Have a Chargeback Problem?   Does eBay Payments Have a Chargeback Problem?

by: pace306 This user has validated their user name.

Sun Aug 29 23:41:23 2021

Is the Pope Catholic?

Or is this an existential question? (if a tree falls in the forest and there's no one there to hear it - does it still make noise?)

Of course they do - and its driven by the #1 eBay problem that every seller knows about - RETURNS and whos REALLY in charge!?

It was bad under Paypal, but eBay had no choice. Now that eBay quite online selling and spent millions to become a cc processor - the problem is 1000x WORSE.

To the first question - you can have any returns policy you want - as long as you abide by eBays 30 MBG policy ... you can also have any color car you want - as long as its BLACK (Henry Ford).

Oh how easy it is to give a guarantee with someone else's money isnt it?????

It would be fraud, but its in the TOS which you tacitly agree to when ever you long on. You dont feel it but theres a gun in your back, and its eBay thats holding it there.

Very mafiaesque - you give 7 days, but we over ride you. We just make up 30 days (cause Amazon does it) but WE dont promise anything - just that we will deal with it (by taking it out of the sellers hide). They make promises on YOUR nickle - isnt it nice of them?

Problem is that Paypal let too many sellers win and that upset the criminals in San Jose.

As well of course, eBay pushed all ITS losses on Paypal - thats why as SIK said so well, they split up. eBay was the albatross around Paypals neck.

But what to do when its YOUR money on the line? eBay now playing cc processor, has/had to eat the losses ... but think of something quick !!!!! quick - call 911, call the marines, call the coast guard, call Gavin Nonsense - but call someone !

Enter the brainiacs like Griff - easy peasy Japanesy (hat tip to Shawshank) just dump it all on the seller!

I've had 2 of these so far in the last 6 months - and I lost them both. I was told (as clear as day) that when the buyer goes "behind eBays back" to the CC company - you AUTO loose if they rule against you.

Doesnt matter right or wrong, doesnt matter what the details are - YOU loose.

As mentioned you get 1 40 character line and 1 pic - and NO MORE! (aka as little effort as possible).

But do you really need more???? In a sane non eBay criminal world - YES, but in eBayland - no - since you cant win anyway.

I even had follow up conversations WITH SR#s that eBay lied and said didnt exist, and I had them enter all the additional info I couldnt when filling out the form initially.

Wanna know what it got me? If you guessed ZERO, nada, nothing - except a loss (which happens in business so take one for the team) then you guessed right.

SIK and RIC are (of course) both right. eBay figured out how to appease more buyers - just eliminate the chargeback dept (reps said call it something else - but as well know - language matters) and dump all the losses on the sellers.

But what will be done about it all ????

Well, the drunk execs (eBay has a booze problem) will still show up sloshed, the idiots from Walmart will continue to do nothing, eBay will continue to make up stuff for their 10k, and the world will go on - cause "baby its in the TOS"

Perminate Link for Does eBay Payments Have a Chargeback Problem?   Does eBay Payments Have a Chargeback Problem?

by: Mazdaman This user has validated their user name.

Mon Aug 30 00:17:04 2021

As we found, eBay charges this $20 "dispute fee" even for items they've verified were delivered, by the USPS tracking (which they echo to their own system).

We won a case where a serial thief claimed an item never arrived and that they "were closed on Saturday" - however, the USPS delivered it on the NEXT MONDAY BECAUSE HE WAS CLOSED ON SATURDAY.  It showed as delivered quite clearly.  The buyer, whom we found had cheated at least three other sellers this way in the past few months, kept lying and denying this, even filing a chargeback.

Lo and behold, he actually SENT THE ITEM BACK TO US with no return request, but forgot to remove his shop's sticker stating "Return - NO LONGER NEEDED".  He waited until well after he'd filed the chargeback to even ship it back to us!  It seems his shop is now closed, perhaps because he treated his off-the-street customers worse than eBay sellers.

We've reported this eBay "dispute fee" before on this site (ecommercebytes.com) too.

Perminate Link for Does eBay Payments Have a Chargeback Problem?   Does eBay Payments Have a Chargeback Problem?

by: ZZ This user has validated their user name.

Mon Aug 30 00:42:21 2021

@Mazdaman:
I'm confused by your post. Are you saying you won the chargeback case and still got charged $20 by eBay? Or that you won the chargeback case with eBay going to bat for you with the details?
If so this is the 1st time I have ever heard of a seller winning a chargeback with Managed Payments.

Also I have one eBay seller ID with 250 listings that only sells a couple items a week. How long have I been on Managed Payments, a year now? It's happened before and it happened last week: I sold somethin, and before I could print the shipping label, Managed payments sent my weekly money by zeroing the balance. Then it wouldn't let me print the shipping label because I didn't have any money left. I had to transfer money into my Paypal account to ship the item on time. This is amateur stuff ebay.

Perminate Link for Does eBay Payments Have a Chargeback Problem?   Does eBay Payments Have a Chargeback Problem?

by: Gumball This user has validated their user name.

Mon Aug 30 01:09:43 2021

If Ebay sells the item and tells you to ship it to the buyer and gives you the address, and you do exactly what you are told, then Ebay is at fault if there is a chargeback. Especially for those who use Ebay shipping. All the information is there. For a buyer to get delivery of the item and then keep it and get their money back is theft, and should be treated as such. Man-up and start pressing fraud charges against Ebay, Buyer, John Doe credit card company (if no one will give you that information), and John Doe payment processor who took the payment and slapped completed on it. When you get that done, sit down and write your congressman, and put copies of the documents you have gathered up including copies of any charges you had to pay. Legislation and more oversight of online venues needs to be enacted. Especially laws that protect sellers who are mandated to one payment processor that the venue has selected. Making the venue automatically responsible for the payments they take and process.  

Perminate Link for Does eBay Payments Have a Chargeback Problem?   Does eBay Payments Have a Chargeback Problem?

This user has validated their user name. by: Marie

Mon Aug 30 01:46:48 2021

@toolguy

I'd venture to guess if you wanted just to go back to money orders, you'd have a whole lot less sales too as paying electronically is just too easy.

Perminate Link for Does eBay Payments Have a Chargeback Problem?   Does eBay Payments Have a Chargeback Problem?

This user has validated their user name. by: Marie

Mon Aug 30 01:47:46 2021

@jack

INRs are easily won on Ebay if the tracking shows delivered.  It is the only Seller Protection that has been consistent over the years and very seller friendly.  

Click to view more comments
1 2  [Next Page]


Login is required to post comments.
To sign in to leave a comment, fill in the form below. If you have not yet signed up for AB Verify, or if you'd like more information, go to the Registration Page
.

Login for AB Verify
Be sure and use your email address and password to log in.

 
Email:
Password:
 
 Forgot Your Password?
 Even though you are signed in with the AuctionBytes Blog, you will have to sign in to the EcommerceBytes blog. But you can sign in with your existing AB Verify info.