Ina Steiner EcommerceBytes Blog
News and insight focusing on ecommerce.
by Ina Steiner, Editor of EcommerceBytes.com
Sun Aug 6 2017 19:59:13

PayPal Marketing Email Encourages Bad Buyer Behavior

By: Ina Steiner

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Returning a book? Don't worry about the cost of return shipping, PayPal advised in a marketing email I received on Thursday. "When you use PayPal at Barnes & Noble, return shipping's on PayPal," it said.

The program itself isn't new and isn't limited to a single retailer. PayPal describes it as follows: "Activate Return Shipping on Us and PayPal can cover up to $30 in return shipping costs per purchase for up to 12 eligible purchases a year."

But it's surprising Barnes & Noble would allow PayPal to message to its customers that it's acceptable for them to read books and then return them without even having to pay for return shipping.

What's sure to aggravate online sellers who may receive the email: it displays a picture of a customer engrossed halfway through a book looking very much like a satisfied customer. Booksellers are not lending libraries.

Marketplaces and online payment services should think twice about the messages they send to customers about what constitutes acceptable behavior. Boosting short-term conversion is important, but at what cost to retailers and merchants in the long run?




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Perminate Link for PayPal Marketing Email Encourages Bad Buyer Behavior   PayPal Marketing Email Encourages Bad Buyer Behavior

by: pace306 This user has validated their user name.

Sun Aug 6 20:58:50 2017

B&N already has one foot in the grave - the Nook was a bust and their 3p seller program went up in smoke.

Stupidity is letting the IDIOT Donohue (now in charge over at Paypal)  explain/sell you/talk you into such a stupid program.

Sure, just buy and return - magazines too. Just scan em all in and return the books/magazines - who cares about the publishers and the writers?

Its simply more "returns mania" running wild over at eBay/Paypal.

I guess if you have nothing ELSE to offer - offer returns - eBay doesnt - Paypal (being eBays secret other 1/2) doesnt either.

Perminate Link for PayPal Marketing Email Encourages Bad Buyer Behavior   PayPal Marketing Email Encourages Bad Buyer Behavior

by: pace306 This user has validated their user name.

Sun Aug 6 21:00:30 2017

"If you're not satisfied with your purchase, you may return it for a refund. We will issue a refund to your original form of payment for items returned within 14 days. All returned items must be in their original condition; shrink-wrapped products must be unopened."


What ? no 60 day returns????????

https://help.barnesandnoble.com/app/answers/det
ail/a_id/15/session/L3RpbWUvMTUwMjA2NzUxOC9zaWQvZlVHQ2Fkc3FkaUZTY2FkOFJUYzZUY0xyTFUlN0VrRHclN0UzU242WWVBQnVHbjh2cjdtSDJFd09naFVZbGhvN0F6YUlVMnJiNWpBZEVfVnlHMVBCSktvcWw1N0dNQlhnak1EdjVfTEIwR3hBdlZFakwlN0Vhc0RrSFJSeUdnJTIxJTIx#ReturningItemsBoughtFromBN.com

Perminate Link for PayPal Marketing Email Encourages Bad Buyer Behavior   PayPal Marketing Email Encourages Bad Buyer Behavior

This user has validated their user name. by: DeathFromAbove

Sun Aug 6 23:52:10 2017

Another attempt to be amazon.  These people just need to wait it out, instead of busy-work changes, just to try to justify a 10,000,000 salary.  Amazon will implode when the government dynamites it with anti-trust law.  Then things will return to normalcy.

Perminate Link for PayPal Marketing Email Encourages Bad Buyer Behavior   PayPal Marketing Email Encourages Bad Buyer Behavior

by: Chicago48 This user has validated their user name.

Sun Aug 6 23:54:11 2017

Why don't they just rent the books out to buyers?  Nobody is buying books anymore....especially college kids.  It's all "rentals".

Perminate Link for PayPal Marketing Email Encourages Bad Buyer Behavior   PayPal Marketing Email Encourages Bad Buyer Behavior

by: Snapped This user has validated their user name.

Mon Aug 7 00:15:44 2017

Funny how buyers who somehow always fail to read a description have no problem reading 'free' return terms.....

Perminate Link for PayPal Marketing Email Encourages Bad Buyer Behavior   PayPal Marketing Email Encourages Bad Buyer Behavior

This user has validated their user name. by: Ming the Merciless

Mon Aug 7 01:06:05 2017

john donaHO - the online sales killer.

Perminate Link for PayPal Marketing Email Encourages Bad Buyer Behavior   PayPal Marketing Email Encourages Bad Buyer Behavior

by: corpuschristi1956 This user has validated their user name.

Mon Aug 7 05:44:57 2017

with things getting rough with China, eBay best to take care of it's American sellers and I would venture to bet that Amazon has already caught on. If you want to better than Amazon, best to lead instead of follow.

Perminate Link for PayPal Marketing Email Encourages Bad Buyer Behavior   PayPal Marketing Email Encourages Bad Buyer Behavior

This user has validated their user name. by: Don Wagner

Mon Aug 7 10:32:06 2017

I have some expensive collector reference books for sale on Amazon. The first customer who buys a book, scans it and then returns it, will be the time I cancel all my Amazon listings.

Perminate Link for PayPal Marketing Email Encourages Bad Buyer Behavior   PayPal Marketing Email Encourages Bad Buyer Behavior

by: epuise This user has validated their user name.

Mon Aug 7 10:33:04 2017

WHAT is this FOCUS on RETURNS ? This puts a SEED in "Buyers" minds. Rather like a SIGN in a Restaurant Lobby... "Don't like your meal ? Tell the Manager and it's FREE"... Suddenly... EVERY meal "has a I'm not totally thrilled" Diner.

Perminate Link for PayPal Marketing Email Encourages Bad Buyer Behavior   PayPal Marketing Email Encourages Bad Buyer Behavior

This user has validated their user name. by: eXtinctBay

Mon Aug 7 10:47:57 2017

@Pace

''Returns Mania''? You Bet!!

Seems like online companies are in a race to see who can offer the most buyer-friendly return terms.

And the company that has no ownership of the goods is in the lead. Since the items are sourced, sold, packed, and shipped by their sellers and not the site itself, it is very simple to be generous with someone else's money.

Want to send an item back at no cost? No problem! It's taken care of, thanks to your friendly seller who doesn't mind losing revenue just to stay in business.

No big deal if you didn't read the description- the people who sold it to you will take it back for free just so you are happy and can keep coming back to abuse more sellers!

Not this seller. Live by free returns, die by free returns......

Perminate Link for PayPal Marketing Email Encourages Bad Buyer Behavior   PayPal Marketing Email Encourages Bad Buyer Behavior

by: pace306 This user has validated their user name.

Mon Aug 7 11:47:55 2017

I was just surprised since Paypals (as reported by Ina) view on returns, is MUCH different then B&N's.

B&Ns is 14 days, PERIOD.

Question is (ok besides it being JD) who/what id funding the Paypal scheme for returns?

B&N does what Amazon and Walmart do - push returns on the vendors and then deduct those returns from open invoices.

These are things eBay sellers cant do (unless you are very large) -  so why does eBay etc keep comparing smaller sellers to major corporations?

If I wanted to rent things - Id franchise out a Hertz or Avis - Im in the SELLING business ....!

Perminate Link for PayPal Marketing Email Encourages Bad Buyer Behavior   PayPal Marketing Email Encourages Bad Buyer Behavior

by: FeelingFroggy This user has validated their user name.

Mon Aug 7 12:10:10 2017

One would be surprised what happens to all those item not as describe, changed mind, doesn't work etc returns.

I work part time for a marketing distribution company. What this is is a company that contracts with major manufacturers for their goods. That company sends their items to us for distribution to stores etc. Now when a store or a licensed business wants something they order from us. It is shipped new unopened to them. They then sell it to you new unopened. You for some reason think its not what you ordered and what to send it back. The store pays for the return and you return for a full refund. You get your money back. Now that store has an item that is no longer new unopened.......They contact the distribution center ( us ) and we will accept all returns regardless of reason. When we get it back we refund the store their money. Now we have a piece of garbage that the store returned by just tossing in a box and the buyer returned after screwing with the contents of the box. Are we stuck with this. NOT IN YOUR LIFE. We have an outlet center where all this garbage is sent and sold to the public for half off of the original price. HA HA the public buys it and sells it again on ebay. Its a vicious cycle and contrary to everyones beliefs with the mark ups on this stuff NO ONE LOSES A DIME on the transaction, returns or refunds. You the public are convinced that these companies can't make money. You are fools.

We handle millions of dollars of store returns a year and make money. The only loser is the buyer who buys this garbage on Ebay, Amazon or anyone else.

Perminate Link for PayPal Marketing Email Encourages Bad Buyer Behavior   PayPal Marketing Email Encourages Bad Buyer Behavior

by: pace306 This user has validated their user name.

Mon Aug 7 16:31:15 2017

@froggy :)

thats EXACTLY what happens to the goods returned on Amazon.

They DONT ship ANYTHING back to the various warehouses around the US. 1) they would have to inspect it all (too much time/money) and 2) too much cost .

Whey separate it all based on what the buyer claims on the returns form, and then hold 2 auctions. They are NOT public and you "have to know people that know people".

The 2 groups are "defective" and new.

I buy goods from someone who has access to the NEW items. They buy the items at auction (53' trailer at a time), they sort through it all, and I buy items "as I see fit".

They tell me that roughly %30-40 of the NEW items are unsaleable and get auction off as boxed lot damaged items. The NEW goods are inspected and offered for sale.

Even then alot of times they arent perfect - as whats INSIDE the box doesnt get checked until the end of the process - and you get things missing parts, EU versions instead of US and stuff like that.

I take ONLY the %100 perfect new items and leave the rest of it for the flea market people - who buy it up in droves.

It ALL gets recycled on eBay at some point - as eBay is the worlds biggest garbage can - something they know all too well about ...

As for me - since I have ONLY new stuff in perfect shape ... Im "golden" .....!

The process you described happens every day 1000x a day!

Perminate Link for PayPal Marketing Email Encourages Bad Buyer Behavior   PayPal Marketing Email Encourages Bad Buyer Behavior

This user has validated their user name. by: Ming the Merciless

Mon Aug 7 23:33:31 2017

@ Pace306

I don't believe you were posting here when my all time favorite (in terms of reprehensibility) Ebafia/PreyPal returns scam was uncovered.

Returns in which the seller was forced to refund the buyer went to either ebafia or PreyPal (I've forgotten which) and ended up in some mystery warehouse in the Dallas-Ft. Worth area where PreyPal quietly "liquidated" the seller's merchandise. This criminal cabal required sellers to lose both the merchandise and the money.

Liars and Thieves. Secrets and Lies.

Perminate Link for PayPal Marketing Email Encourages Bad Buyer Behavior   PayPal Marketing Email Encourages Bad Buyer Behavior

by: pace306 This user has validated their user name.

Tue Aug 8 09:30:00 2017

No Ming, I wasnt.

But NOTHING surprises me with these 2.

Once eBay changed its policy, to make EVERYTHING the sellers fault (back in 2007), that was the end of the "real eBay". All thats left is a clone that doesnt know what it wants to be. Its ONLY policy is steal from the seller - thas why its stock is always at $35 a share and doesnt grow, thats why its quarterly's are %3, thats why they hire stupid people who only know how to tow the line.

Theres no innovation, no positive changes (4 days of eBay OPEN produced nothing except 60 day free returns and "oh we have a crappy CS system" (WELL DUH)), nothing.

Sorry - it did produce and extreme quantity of women in dorky hats.

THERE IS BUSINESS ON EBAY - its just that eBay does its best to make sure you get ONLY what they think you should get and no more.

No company that wants growth would set sales limits on its accounts - Amazon doesnt, Walmart doesnt - why do they even exist on eBay?

eBay itself is one big SNAD - they publish rules they themselves dont follow - but then bust your chops when YOU either make a mistake or encounter one of THEIR snowflake buyers.

Sadly when you get down in the mud (which you have to do when dealing with eBay) ... you get dirty.

Perminate Link for PayPal Marketing Email Encourages Bad Buyer Behavior   PayPal Marketing Email Encourages Bad Buyer Behavior

by: maxmad This user has validated their user name.

Tue Aug 8 12:15:41 2017

Sellers need to wake up, and put a stop to these monopolies, unionized, boycott, or whatever it takes, something needs to be done to show these  companies who their customers really are.

Perminate Link for PayPal Marketing Email Encourages Bad Buyer Behavior   PayPal Marketing Email Encourages Bad Buyer Behavior

This user has validated their user name. by: Rexford

Tue Aug 8 17:46:05 2017

I will tell you that without a shadow of a doubt, all eBay and PayPal's talk of returns has increased the amount of returns that we receive three fold. They are constantly harping on returns, planting the seeds of returns in customers' minds.  We ship mostly brand new items. No flaws.  Excuses for returns such as "I don't need it anymore" or "I've decided to buy something else".

The power of suggestion.  Why aren't they suggesting how happy customers will be with their eBay orders?  

We do not have these problems on the other sites that we sell.  eBay have become the biggest waste of time under the sun.  

Perminate Link for PayPal Marketing Email Encourages Bad Buyer Behavior   PayPal Marketing Email Encourages Bad Buyer Behavior

by: Stig of the Dump This user has validated their user name.

Tue Aug 8 17:53:20 2017

imnsho although I am the last one to come to the defense of PP or B&N I think that telling people they can return items easily increases their willingness to purchase.

I sell books (as well as other things) on Az and eB, and books are still selling, btw. And although customers can return my items extremely few do, and a book is almost a once in a decade event.

Perminate Link for PayPal Marketing Email Encourages Bad Buyer Behavior   PayPal Marketing Email Encourages Bad Buyer Behavior

by: Snapped This user has validated their user name.

Tue Aug 8 20:33:34 2017

@ Stig..

Having a liberal return policy so to encourage sales isn't precisely the question.  

Having such forced upon a seller, is.  One can certainly elect to offer such for whatever reason suits, and choosing to do so is a privelege of owning one's business.

But taking the CHOICE away?  Then it's no longer the seller's business - it's the policy dictator's. No matter how much 'sense' such a dictate may be said to possess.

Perminate Link for PayPal Marketing Email Encourages Bad Buyer Behavior   PayPal Marketing Email Encourages Bad Buyer Behavior

by: Snapped This user has validated their user name.

Tue Aug 8 20:33:34 2017

@ Stig..

Having a liberal return policy so to encourage sales isn't precisely the question.  

Having such forced upon a seller, is.  One can certainly elect to offer such for whatever reason suits, and choosing to do so is a privelege of owning one's business.

But taking the CHOICE away?  Then it's no longer the seller's business - it's the policy dictator's. No matter how much 'sense' such a dictate may be said to possess.

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