Ina Steiner EcommerceBytes Blog
News and insight focusing on ecommerce.
by Ina Steiner, Editor of EcommerceBytes.com
Mon Sept 21 2015 16:54:08

eBay to Run Pilot Program to Address False Claims

By: Ina Steiner

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Buried in the Fall Seller Update is news of a pilot program eBay is launching to help sellers deal with false claims from buyers. The problem stems from shoppers who get a case of buyer's remorse and wish to return an item outside of the seller's return policy. 

If such buyers lie and say the item was damaged or not as described, eBay requires the seller to accept the return, no matter what their return policy states. Story after story about buyers who abuse the policy is documented on the eBay boards, on EcommerceBytes, and elsewhere since 2012. 

On the one hand, it appears eBay is finally acknowledging the problem and is looking for solutions. On the other hand, it's unclear who it will allow into the pilot program, how it will work, and when it will be available to all sellers.

eBay spokesperson Karen Crocker Snell told us, "The limited pilot will give participating sellers broader options for resolving issues with buyers who choose a "not as described" reason for the return, when the actual reason may be different."

She declined to answer specific questions - "If sellers would like to be considered for the pilot this fall, they can send us a note with their eBay user ID," she said.

Here's the email to submit your request: sellergtm@ebay.com

We've got more information in Tuesday's EcommerceBytes Newsflash, let us know what you think. And if you're accepted into the program, drop me a line to let me know how it goes.




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Readers Comments

Perminate Link for eBay to Run Pilot Program to Address False Claims   eBay to Run Pilot Program to Address False Claims

by: Volvo351 This user has validated their user name.

Mon Sep 21 17:25:54 2015

Why not make this REAL easy: sellers who have been on the board "X" number of years with "Y" number of SALES transactions will AUTOMATICALLY be protected against bogus SNAD claims, until and unless there are sufficient complaints to kick them off. I've been on the board for a decade - I think I have EARNED that kind of trust and respect. eBay has made thousands off my biz; I don't deserve to be cheated by a scammer or just a chucklehead who changed his mind about the purchase.

Perminate Link for eBay to Run Pilot Program to Address False Claims   eBay to Run Pilot Program to Address False Claims

This user has validated their user name. by: White Rabbit

Mon Sep 21 17:53:12 2015

and in most cases the person is screwing a lot of sellers with the same scam.. even when proved with dates and facts that they pulled the sames scam on other sellers.. Ebay ignores the facts.. even when you have perfect feedback. Total disrespect for their sellers and it is obvious that this policy came from the top.

Perminate Link for eBay to Run Pilot Program to Address False Claims   eBay to Run Pilot Program to Address False Claims

This user has validated their user name. by: Rexford

Mon Sep 21 18:24:40 2015

Volvo351 makes a good point.  If one has been on eBay for over 10 years and his top rated, very high feedback, and experience rated seller eBay should leave them alone and let them handle this.

Most sellers will work with buyers on their own without the need of interference from eBay.  What really steams me though is when a scammer cries "item not as described" to force the return AND to force the seller to pay for the return.

Perminate Link for eBay to Run Pilot Program to Address False Claims   eBay to Run Pilot Program to Address False Claims

by: gizmo This user has validated their user name.

Mon Sep 21 18:37:43 2015

I was 100% feedback , 100% ship on time , average 4.9 dsr , 3 defects in 1 year , & won 1 case out of the 3. Only because I proved my case. It does not matter how good your overall scores are , they just dont want to take the time to do whats right. Main reason I gave up on deadbay.

My no returns means nothing , when they have PP as their bullys. Its a no win situation.

The latest plans, just open up more problems for sellers,than sellers already have.
There are no seller protections , & I doubt there will be. Im sick of losing money on a dying site , my reason for pulling out.

Perminate Link for eBay to Run Pilot Program to Address False Claims   eBay to Run Pilot Program to Address False Claims

by: sasikat9 This user has validated their user name.

Mon Sep 21 18:59:26 2015

Does anyone really think that all this new stuff is going to change Fleecebays stance on Small Hobby sellers..

Seems like it benefits the the big DIAMOND LOSERS most of all.  I mean if negatives and neutrals aren't going to count after next year I would be more than willing to bet the farm the only people on this so called special high secret programs are going to be those diamond sellers.

Ya all know the ones with thousands and thousands of negatives now and the scamming sellers from china.

If anyone thinks Fleecebay is going to play fair I have a chimney brick I would like to sell you.

Sellers on Fleecebay are pulling at all the straws and anyway they pull its still going to be the long one.

Perminate Link for eBay to Run Pilot Program to Address False Claims   eBay to Run Pilot Program to Address False Claims

by: mjr55 This user has validated their user name.

Mon Sep 21 19:19:29 2015

If a buyer lies about this (saying an item was not as described but admits it is or gives some sort of message that indicates the item was as described), the CS rep is supposed to escalate the case and close it in your favor (regardless of the return policy)....blocking feedback from them, removing defects, etc.

We also have been instructed to not hit the "accept a return" option in these cases (since Ebay will then charge your for the buyer's return).

Now again, your results will vary....since as with anything else, you are going to get CS reps sometimes who want to apply their own rules.

Perminate Link for eBay to Run Pilot Program to Address False Claims   eBay to Run Pilot Program to Address False Claims

by: Volvo351 This user has validated their user name.

Mon Sep 21 20:49:59 2015

@Rexford

I have two recent "defects" - one for a requested return [Buyer Remorse]. I refused the return; I have a "no returns" policy which is supposed to be my right, except we all know it isn't in fact allowed. Now, scammer bypassed eBay's "dispute resolution" and went straight to PayPig, who DENIED his claim. I still get a defect.

Second case buyer of similar item has difficulty with routine installation, and contacts me through "request refund" or "request return" button. Many sellers have experienced this nasty little "glitch." After responding to his Q I never heard from him again. No dispute, no FB. I still get a "defect."

Why? Because eBay's management is clueless.

Perminate Link for eBay to Run Pilot Program to Address False Claims   eBay to Run Pilot Program to Address False Claims

by: maxmad This user has validated their user name.

Mon Sep 21 21:32:56 2015

ebay can make all the promises they want, talk is cheap,  unfortunately all this talk of change is laughable, when in reality NOTHING has actually been done, ebay is the same place today as is was last month.

All talk and NO action will not work, they look like total desperate fools.

Perminate Link for eBay to Run Pilot Program to Address False Claims   eBay to Run Pilot Program to Address False Claims

by: moto-science This user has validated their user name.

Mon Sep 21 23:08:41 2015

At this point......too little, too late.

Re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic is all they can do.

Sales are too far and few now down -90%......they have lost so much sales momentum. As a seller, I have very little time or enthusiasm to make new listings on Ebay.

Perminate Link for eBay to Run Pilot Program to Address False Claims   eBay to Run Pilot Program to Address False Claims

This user has validated their user name. by: Shop and Ship

Mon Sep 21 23:42:16 2015

Two weeks from delivery us not an unreasonable return period for Buyer remorse; but after that date the item should be considered the property of the Buyer who then has the burden of justifying the return with photographs, a notarized affidavit, etc. PayPal seems to believe that this is a reasonable procedure for the Seller to follow when USPS damages a return package, so let's have the Buyer adhere to the same standards. It's this double standard, and calling long term eBay Members "liars" that exposes eBay and PayPal to the jackass labels that they've earned.  

Perminate Link for eBay to Run Pilot Program to Address False Claims   eBay to Run Pilot Program to Address False Claims

This user has validated their user name. by: Mercy the Mingless

Tue Sep 22 00:35:42 2015

But, but,

Aren't sellers already protected by Ebay's magic algorithms that identify then boot bad buyers?

Perminate Link for eBay to Run Pilot Program to Address False Claims   eBay to Run Pilot Program to Address False Claims

by: SparklyEyes7 This user has validated their user name.

Tue Sep 22 00:47:47 2015

eBay just defended me in an INAD case.  They ruled in my favor and she returned it on her dime and I didn't get a defect.  So calling can make a difference.

Perminate Link for eBay to Run Pilot Program to Address False Claims   eBay to Run Pilot Program to Address False Claims

by: comet This user has validated their user name.

Tue Sep 22 01:26:20 2015

Yeah what about that 180 DAY recall or the extended recall we read about here was it JUST last week--where some buyer can call at ANY point and claim INR----

Yeah.  

Trust me I am from ebay.  

Perminate Link for eBay to Run Pilot Program to Address False Claims   eBay to Run Pilot Program to Address False Claims

by: Volvo351 This user has validated their user name.

Tue Sep 22 08:30:49 2015

@SparklyEyes7

After re-reading your post I'm a bit confused. You say the THM "defended" you against a SNAD/INAD, but that "she [buyer] returned [sic] on her dime.."

So, you got the item back? Who authorized that? See why I'm confused? You were either defended, or you weren't.

Perminate Link for eBay to Run Pilot Program to Address False Claims   eBay to Run Pilot Program to Address False Claims

This user has validated their user name. by: White Rabbit

Tue Sep 22 09:07:44 2015

Another aspect of this is buyers that buy and do not want to return the item as it is exactly what they want but they want it for a lot less.

This scam is accomplished by opening a direct paypal claim  under not as described. In the note area after claiming various defects that do not exist, there will be a stipulation if you reduce the price 50% (or more) they will be OK with the item. they may also complain about customs tax (about 20%).. i had this happen from Italy. After researching the buyer in detail, I found other sellers he did this to and Left Negative feedbacks for (as he did to me) the exact same scam to the other sellers.

Upon bringing this to Ebay review by phone and email, I was told no way would they remove the feedback.

i refused the offer of reducing the price and requested the buyer return the item and closed the PP claim myself. I was perfectly willing to fully refund as i kew the item was perfect. The buyer refused to return the item ($150+) the claim was denied by paypal and my funds returned and the seller left a negative for me as he did for others with this exact same scam that refused his blackmail attempts. I no longer ship to Italy.

I filed complaining letters to Ebay on this. I was ignored and the negative remains.

Ebay most likely is aware this is costing them many sellers of perfect feedback to leave or be removed. This is not a sound policy toward their fee payers.

Perminate Link for eBay to Run Pilot Program to Address False Claims   eBay to Run Pilot Program to Address False Claims

This user has validated their user name. by: White Rabbit

Tue Sep 22 09:13:52 2015

^^ this happened within the last 2 months. not an old policy. The employees at the feedback review gave me the impression they had zero respect for me as a seller.

Perminate Link for eBay to Run Pilot Program to Address False Claims   eBay to Run Pilot Program to Address False Claims

by: pace306 This user has validated their user name.

Tue Sep 22 09:19:21 2015

With out details on the program its hard to see how this would work.

eBay doesnt "get it".

Its not just about the 30 days (time), its about the OTHER parts of the process that are bad.

1) is the seller getting back the same item they sent (in my case I dont - they get switched)

2) is the item REALLY defective (again in my case NOT)

3) is the item COMPLETE as sent (again in my case NOT)

4) is this a compatibility issue (like some of mine were) and how is it the sellers fault if its not?

Unless the item is TRULY different, "SNAD" is just a con game eBay pushes on sellers to keep buyers happy.

I'd like to hear from anyone accepted into the program.

Im going to apply, but since eBay hates me - I doubt I'll be let in!

Perminate Link for eBay to Run Pilot Program to Address False Claims   eBay to Run Pilot Program to Address False Claims

by: Orwellwasright This user has validated their user name.

Tue Sep 22 09:28:07 2015

IMO
The fact this comes up as soon as the faux separation from PP takes place is no co-incidence

Expect ebay and PP to play good cop/bad cop with their sellers for a long time to come.

What Difference does ebay policy make when paypal controls the money?, and ebay has Insured that PP will control the money for years to come

IF and I stress the word IF either ebay or PP had a real dispute resolution policy, the kind that exists outside the closed ebay environment, Ebay would lose millions of dollars as scammers cheats and thieves flee the site.

Paypal as well, were they not able to stick the sellers with egregious terms, not used anywhere else, which GUARENTEE endemic fraud and theft , would quickly find their enormous profitability vanish overnight.

Remember That were ebay/PP to institute a real investigative process , it would require an substantial investment , and in the end it would severely diminish their GMV as fraudulent transactions as well as the unknown legions of professional cheats vanish from the site..

paypal as well is not likely to take the hits of patently fraudulent claims which they can now force the seller to endure as the cost of doing business ...

This is not a new issue, It has been going on since forced PP. Ebay has all the data, they know perfectly well who are the professional return thieves, and they ENCOURAGE sellers to pay off all claims WITHOUT involving ebay, thus perpetuating the cyber-shoplifter professionals

IF ebay was even a tiny bit serious about reducing fraud, all they would have to do is analyze their own data an suspend users who are obviously the professional cheats

They do not need us to point out these people, yet they continue unabated sometimes for YEARS!

I have said it brfore and I will say it again the ebay management has become completely corrupted and INCAPABLE of viewing the smaller sellers as business partners who should be treated fairly and with respect

Perminate Link for eBay to Run Pilot Program to Address False Claims   eBay to Run Pilot Program to Address False Claims

This user has validated their user name. by: Shop and Ship

Tue Sep 22 09:32:34 2015

@White Rabbit: Yours is a common experience on eBay and increasingly on PayPal. A Seller can log 5,000 sales with glowing Positive Feedback while a Buyer's record shows 11 Negs with a Feedback score of 32 - what are the odds of 30% ISNAD for one Buyer? - but eBay asserts that the Seller is a liar and a fraudster, and boots the Seller?  

Perminate Link for eBay to Run Pilot Program to Address False Claims   eBay to Run Pilot Program to Address False Claims

by: spooky This user has validated their user name.

Tue Sep 22 09:57:26 2015

I list old vintage and antique items, virtually all have been used and have degrees of wear. Determining the condition can often be subjective but I always err on the side of caution and prominently mention and blemishes,etc. Once in awhile I get a buyer who opens a return case for cause, 99% of these are complete nonsense. I just had a return opened on an expensive antique lamp base with the winner saying she thought the patina was a little off! I would welcome any eBay changes that would make this more considerate.

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