Ina Steiner EcommerceBytes Blog
News and insight focusing on ecommerce.
by Ina Steiner, Editor of EcommerceBytes.com
Mon June 22 2015 12:32:45

eBay Seller Loses Case Due to Expired USPS Tracking

By: Ina Steiner

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Last fall, eBay sellers were upset to learn that PayPal was extending the time buyers had to make a claim from 45 days to 6 months. As we wrote at the time, sellers worried that they would not have information to defend themselves from claims.

Today, a reader said, "It is happening," pointing to a thread on the eBay discussion board. "PayPal is allowing cases after 120 days and no one has any proof of delivery existing any longer. PayPal refunding buyers - scary," the reader said.

Sellers had been worried they would lose claims because they would not have access to information proving details about the transaction after such a long time - including delivery confirmation from shipping carriers; records of their communication with buyers; and the original listing details to show they accurately described the items.

The thread on the eBay boards details a case where a buyer made a claim over 4 months after purchasing an item. After seeking advice and contacting PayPal, the seller provided an update:

I called PayPal and they told me they do not keep records of online tracking and only go by USPS, so if it is no longer available on USPS I am out of luck. They told me to call USPS and try to get them to "find" the tracking. They said if it's not online viewable tracking I will lose the case.

But some sellers said they were told in the fall that PayPal would keep such records in their files for such cases.

eBay's head of community Jeff Terrell had written on October 1st, "To answer your question, the tracking information is a service of the shipper, not eBay. You have the tracking number. You can search it using the shipper's information for as long as the shipper has it on their system. eBay reps can do the same."

But on the same day, an eBay moderator wrote on the boards, "eBay and PayPal will keep the information provided to us on file with the transaction details. USPS will remove the information after a time, but there is a process in place to request information that has been removed to be restored."

Let us know if you have had any issues with PayPal's new 6-month claims policy.




Comments (51) | Leave Comment | Permalink

Readers Comments

Perminate Link for eBay Seller Loses Case Due to Expired USPS Tracking   eBay Seller Loses Case Due to Expired USPS Tracking

by: Orwellwasright This user has validated their user name.

Mon Jun 22 12:47:51 2015



Spoke to my postal rep
I was told tracking numbers stay online a minimum of three months and a maximum of 1 year

After that the Numbers are RE-USED , repeat, RE-USED , so a six moth old tracking number may have entirely different information

and, Even if you have the entire delivery history saved, it won't matter because it not be verifiable online ...

When asked why I was inquiring, I explained paypals new policy, .... her reaction was just to say, this will be interesting

Chinese Curse :

may you live in interesting times

Perminate Link for eBay Seller Loses Case Due to Expired USPS Tracking   eBay Seller Loses Case Due to Expired USPS Tracking

by: gizmo This user has validated their user name.

Mon Jun 22 13:24:18 2015

I keep my own records on my cloud. A copy of the page , with its own # for quick reference , I draw up the delivery page , copy , paste in its own file. My red book, so to speak.
Just another reason to file a complaint with the feds. Call them on every blunder they fail us on. promises , promises broken should be complaints filed. Both these companys are under fire , & need to be kept there.

Special attention should be noticed , with such people trying to win certain friends in high places. The people I do not want winning , are rubbing shoulders with these crooks , & should be exposed for such.

Ebay & paypal are in focus of the feds for a reason. Its about time they are where they belong. EXPOSED 100%
Keep your own records. If E&P want to create problems , give them a dose of , " I got my own back."

Copy & record those deliverys. File complaints  against those venues which dont fulfill their obligations to you the seller.

They have to keep records as long as they hold it over your head. If not , file complaints. The more , the better. I wish you all luck with these ecommerce crooks.

Perminate Link for eBay Seller Loses Case Due to Expired USPS Tracking   eBay Seller Loses Case Due to Expired USPS Tracking

by: maxmad This user has validated their user name.

Mon Jun 22 13:26:02 2015

yes, too late to do anything about it, no ebay data, exactly like what they did with their retroactive defects they gave us, too late to get them removed, no ebay data 8 months later



I have nothing good to say about ebay, and will just leave it at that.





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by: gizmo This user has validated their user name.

Mon Jun 22 14:01:04 2015

Just to clarify keeping my own records. Request email alerts on delivery. Copy The email , & its "details". These show route of email , where from , who to , including IP & such. They cannot deny their own email, when it includes the page details. Food for thought.

Perminate Link for eBay Seller Loses Case Due to Expired USPS Tracking   eBay Seller Loses Case Due to Expired USPS Tracking

This user has validated their user name. by: Rexford

Mon Jun 22 14:49:48 2015

I, like maxmad, have nothing good to say about the company either.

It has to one of the most poorly managed companies in the world.

Destructive Innovation!  

Perminate Link for eBay Seller Loses Case Due to Expired USPS Tracking   eBay Seller Loses Case Due to Expired USPS Tracking

by: pace306 This user has validated their user name.

Mon Jun 22 16:01:19 2015

eBay, Paypal ..... TRY THIS CR@P WITH ME PLEASE.

Watch as the 2 lawyers in my family stop doing speeding tix, real estate closings and divorce to focus on the likes of you.

Arbitrarily making a demand for 6 months of tracking data is absurd and illegal.

eBay spokesman as WRONG. Sellers are NOT required by law to keep data for that amount of time.

If the item was delivered THEN, then its delivered NOW, you cant just make stuff up.

eBay and Paypal LOVE to make up laws, rules and anything else - to suit their grubby little bank accounts.

Come on eBay/Paypal, try me - I DARE YOU.

Perminate Link for eBay Seller Loses Case Due to Expired USPS Tracking   eBay Seller Loses Case Due to Expired USPS Tracking

by: macsbaby This user has validated their user name.

Mon Jun 22 18:51:33 2015

My question is what item can a claim be filed on after 4 months? I specifically state in my description that if an insurance claim is not filed within a month, there is no damage or loss as my insurance company will be the one to go to the mat. If paypal gets involved....there are laws they have to follow, and being able to pay a claim for a made up rule wont stand forever. Believe me when enough people get burned....class action.  

Perminate Link for eBay Seller Loses Case Due to Expired USPS Tracking   eBay Seller Loses Case Due to Expired USPS Tracking

by: macsbaby This user has validated their user name.

Mon Jun 22 18:56:19 2015

I wonder how singlehandedly ebay was able to change the market though with concern to insurance. It used to be the purchaser was the buyer of the insurance to protect their purchase, but now its the buyer protecting someone elses purchase to make sure it arrives safely? How and when did that rule really change? Am I really responsible for the buyers item after they purchase it? Just on ebay because we agree to their "TOS"....and any other website. Also now paypal is involved....but amazon allows buyers to reject insurance, and they are responsible after that.

Perminate Link for eBay Seller Loses Case Due to Expired USPS Tracking   eBay Seller Loses Case Due to Expired USPS Tracking

This user has validated their user name. by: iheartjacksparrow

Mon Jun 22 19:09:57 2015

I knew this was going to happen. That's why I will no longer accept PayPal as a payment method. As soon as PayPal announced the six month SNAD claim, you just know the scamming buyers were counting down the days to try it out.

And who doesn't know as soon as an item is received and opened whether it is SNAD or broken? It's absolute insanity that it would take six months to determine whether or not the item matches the description, or if it has a crack in it.

I sort of wish PayPal would go after Pace so we could all witness the carnage that would be inflicted on PayPal.  

Perminate Link for eBay Seller Loses Case Due to Expired USPS Tracking   eBay Seller Loses Case Due to Expired USPS Tracking

by: Volvo351 This user has validated their user name.

Mon Jun 22 19:46:59 2015

So, now eBay sellers have to keep [probably manual/written] records of sales info, then beg USPS to furnish on-line confirmation of that info in the event of an INR dispute that's MONTHS OLD?  Freakin' incredible.

Perminate Link for eBay Seller Loses Case Due to Expired USPS Tracking   eBay Seller Loses Case Due to Expired USPS Tracking

by: macsbaby This user has validated their user name.

Mon Jun 22 20:06:43 2015

They make it sound like it has to be publicly available or they wont accept it. That's a problem....someone aint tellin the truth here....

Perminate Link for eBay Seller Loses Case Due to Expired USPS Tracking   eBay Seller Loses Case Due to Expired USPS Tracking

This user has validated their user name. by: Rexford

Mon Jun 22 21:27:36 2015

Another plug for eCrater.........come to eCrater, where you can accept Stripe for payments.

Perminate Link for eBay Seller Loses Case Due to Expired USPS Tracking   eBay Seller Loses Case Due to Expired USPS Tracking

This user has validated their user name. by: LasVagueness

Tue Jun 23 00:24:41 2015

This is some scary stuff. Chilling and frightening.  

Perminate Link for eBay Seller Loses Case Due to Expired USPS Tracking   eBay Seller Loses Case Due to Expired USPS Tracking

by: jleach53 This user has validated their user name.

Tue Jun 23 00:31:44 2015

@maxmad
What site do you use instead of eBay? I want to leave but need a good venue to sell. Thanks

Perminate Link for eBay Seller Loses Case Due to Expired USPS Tracking   eBay Seller Loses Case Due to Expired USPS Tracking

by: Moonwishes This user has validated their user name.
Web Site

Tue Jun 23 00:36:03 2015

I'm not on my usual business computer, so can't check it, but do the different postage venues such as endicia and Stamps.com keep the info on DC? It is so bizarre and the other posters are correct, how can anyone make a claim for a purchase 3-6 months out. If there was a problem when it arrived, they should have said so then, not months later.

Perminate Link for eBay Seller Loses Case Due to Expired USPS Tracking   eBay Seller Loses Case Due to Expired USPS Tracking

by: Eagle This user has validated their user name.

Tue Jun 23 00:40:26 2015

@Rexford, I use Stripe through my website. Was very happy until a lady filed a chargeback because USPS didn't scan the 1st Class package after leaving our regional postal station. The package had only been in transit for 3 business days? Sure enough she received the package on the 5th business day, but they had already taken the $45 from my account plus added a $15 chargeback fee for a total of $60. This happened towards end of April and still haven't received the money back. Stripe states it takes 60 days to settle a chargeback. Lady claims she canceled chargeback and her credit card company had re-charged her during first of May. Nice little hickey because nut bag customer and USPS didn't scan on daily basis! Plus getting kicked again with the $15 fee due to actions by customer that I had no control over!

Perminate Link for eBay Seller Loses Case Due to Expired USPS Tracking   eBay Seller Loses Case Due to Expired USPS Tracking

by: pbjworld This user has validated their user name.

Tue Jun 23 00:44:56 2015

why is Paypal allowing customers to open disputes within 6 months. Have they gone mad. I tell you why. Because they use this to convince customer to sign up with them. Saying we care for you. sign up for a paypal account. Heck with those sellers. We're the only one in this solar system that allows you to open a dispute within 6 months. Problem with this, is that they don't even make money from the customers... we pay the paypal fees.. Paypal! Where is our protection, you bums!... I'm just waiting for 1 ridiculous claim and it's bye, bye Paypal

Perminate Link for eBay Seller Loses Case Due to Expired USPS Tracking   eBay Seller Loses Case Due to Expired USPS Tracking

by: comet This user has validated their user name.

Tue Jun 23 00:45:42 2015

Ebay and Paypal both very well KNEW that these so-called "records"  would NOT be available on line for this amount of time.  So they were smug and certain that no seller could ever "win" on this.  

Now--WHY this is something they wanted to DO TO their customers--I cannot for the life of me figure out.  

The USPS-- and I would imagine law makers across the country--- will be inundated with complaints and requests for HELP on this should these scammer "Liar Buyers"  come flooding out of the wood work after this long amount of time.  

If you HAVE one of these the FIRST place I would call is the USPS;  the NEXT place should be to ALL of your political reps--Your Congress Person;  your State and United States Senators---your State's Attorney General.  If there was insurance on your items--call your State Insurance Bureau--

ALL of these places should be FLOODED with calls;  emails and snail mails as soon as we get any sort of "chargeback"  on these ancient sales.  

And I would not hesitate for one second in mentioning the RICO statutes---this is where I suspect some eager Atty General will focus and FINALLY bring charges against ebay and Paypal.  By encouraging outright THEFT--and of course they have BEEN doing this--but now the evidence is that much clearer---this might spur on some actual investigations.  

If you have a bank account or credit card linked TO your Paypal--now might be a good time to CHANGE this.  Get a pre-paid card;  use that as the "credit card"  option--or as I do---use the Paypal Debit Card as your link!  I also have an older defunct bank account on there--no one has ever questioned this as I don't transfer things to it.  I no longer have an account at that bank so I think I am "safe" here.

I never have much in there --well---in order TO have $$$ in that account I would need to have SALES---which have dried up to California drought levels--so----not overly worried about being wiped out with months old SNAD claims.  But---those who DO have money in these accounts--now is the time to CHANGE this.    

Perminate Link for eBay Seller Loses Case Due to Expired USPS Tracking   eBay Seller Loses Case Due to Expired USPS Tracking

by: DZT This user has validated their user name.

Tue Jun 23 00:51:13 2015

This is a perfect example of why we stopped selling on eBay.

Perminate Link for eBay Seller Loses Case Due to Expired USPS Tracking   eBay Seller Loses Case Due to Expired USPS Tracking

by: Tiffee Jasso This user has validated their user name.

Tue Jun 23 02:19:57 2015

You can ask for archived records from the Post Office. I have done this. Also if you do not upload pics or pdfs which ever is required of Ebay, Paypal and USPS tracking records for the dispute, you will lose. Do not think any of the employees at Paypal will look up any records. You must provide those.  

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