Ina Steiner EcommerceBytes Blog
News and insight focusing on ecommerce.
by Ina Steiner, Editor of EcommerceBytes.com
Mon Apr 14 2014 20:20:13

PayPal Gives UK Buyers 6 Months' Protection for e-Goods

By: Ina Steiner

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PayPal is expanding buyer protection to cover "intangibles" in the UK, including digital goods, and it may consider extending the policy to other markets as well. There's no sign of the new policy on the PayPal UK website, but a PayPal spokesperson confirmed a report in Friday's Guardian newspaper - see Tuesday's EcommerceBytes Newsflash.

UPDATE 4/14/14: I've now heard back from PayPal UK - a spokesperson said the 180 days is for all transactions - tangible and intangible.

Just last week an eBay buyer said he purchased a license on eBay UK for antivirus software that turned out to be no good, but was told by eBay he was not covered "because a license key falls under "intangible goods" which is not covered by the eBay Money Back Guarantee and they closed the case."

Under the new policy that takes effect on June 17, this buyer would theoretically be covered. Not only that, the Guardian says buyers of intangibles would be covered for 6 months rather than the normal 45-day protection period.

While one can see how honest buyers would benefit, sellers have concerns about not-so-honest buyers who could abuse the policy.

Note that eBay restricts the sale of digital goods on its sites - you can learn more on eBay.com and on eBay UK.

As for PayPal, a spokesperson told EcommerceBytes, "PayPal is constantly looking for new ways to make the shopping experience even safer, faster and more secure for people around the world. We are currently rolling out new protections for buyers in the U.K. when they use PayPal to purchase digital or intangible goods. If our customers value and benefit from these new protections we may consider extending this program to other markets."




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Perminate Link for PayPal Gives UK Buyers 6 Months' Protection for e-Goods   PayPal Gives UK Buyers 6 Months' Protection for e-Goods

This user has validated their user name. by: Philip Cohen
Web Site

Mon Apr 14 20:50:28 2014

"We're always looking for ways to give you extra peace of mind and make you feel more secure when you shop online. That's why you can now choose Pay After Delivery at checkout. With Pay After Delivery purchases, we'll pay the seller straight away but will only request the money from your bank account 14 days later. This gives you the time to receive the item before you pay. If the item doesn't arrive or isn't what you expected, you're covered by PayPal Buyer Protection."—PayPal

https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt/Marketing/
general/PADLaunch-outside

https://www.paypal.co.uk/pay-after-delivery-more/

This “way” is simply another “PreyPal” pea-and-thimble trick to try to get buyers to allow “PreyPal” the much cheaper access to funds via “direct debit” on the payer’s bank account, rather than via a credit card. The problem is, if you do give “PreyPal” the authority to directly debit your bank account, as a buyer you then have absolutely no protection from “PreyPal” which is equally as bad as having no recourse to an unscrupulous merchant, recourse which you still do have from both an unscrupulous merchant and an unscrupulous “PreyPal” if you only allow “PreyPal” access to your funds via a credit card account …

Fortunately, we can always tell when an eBay or "PreyPal" spokesperson is being disingenuous—their lips are moving! ... http://bit.ly/YvxFEg

Perminate Link for PayPal Gives UK Buyers 6 Months' Protection for e-Goods   PayPal Gives UK Buyers 6 Months' Protection for e-Goods

by: FREDDY This user has validated their user name.

Tue Apr 15 08:43:17 2014

@ Mr. Cohen,
Believe you are right on concerning paypal.

6 months for e goods is ridiculous. Shows how much that ebay corp is really hurting. It will be in the US and elsewhere after a few months in the UK. Feel sorry for anyone in the that business. No more downloads.

Perminate Link for PayPal Gives UK Buyers 6 Months' Protection for e-Goods   PayPal Gives UK Buyers 6 Months' Protection for e-Goods

This user has validated their user name. by: Ina

Tue Apr 15 10:28:50 2014

As I noted early this morning when I heard back from PayPal UK, the 6-month protection is for all goods - including physical goods.

Hoping to get further clarification, but if this comes to the U.S. and effects eBay transactions it would have a huge impact on sellers.

Perminate Link for PayPal Gives UK Buyers 6 Months' Protection for e-Goods   PayPal Gives UK Buyers 6 Months' Protection for e-Goods

This user has validated their user name. by: Puck

Tue Apr 15 11:49:26 2014

With ePal buyer protection nothing is ever really 'Sold' in the accepted sense of the word.

Folks listing on eBay or accepting The Pal anywhere will be permitting 180 day free home trials of their merchandise or services.

Eventually both companies will force satisfaction guarantees in perpetuity on sellers.

PayPal was never smothered in the crib by banks and credit card companies because they are really super merchants of record and a huge revenue stream for these entities.

If credit card companies and issuers really wanted to put the kibosh on The Pal they only need to double the merchant fees they charge them and The Pal would explode like the Hindenburg.

Banks, credit card companies and PayPal are all part of the same corporate hypocrisy.

"Oh, the humanity!"

Perminate Link for PayPal Gives UK Buyers 6 Months' Protection for e-Goods   PayPal Gives UK Buyers 6 Months' Protection for e-Goods

by: Bidonmine This user has validated their user name.

Tue Apr 15 13:16:23 2014

Sorry, 180 days is way to long. Brick and Morter merchants are cutting back on their return times because of rampant abuse.
180-day rentals are not for me.

Perminate Link for PayPal Gives UK Buyers 6 Months' Protection for e-Goods   PayPal Gives UK Buyers 6 Months' Protection for e-Goods

This user has validated their user name. by: Rexford

Tue Apr 15 13:29:12 2014

180 day rentals is not for us either.  We'd be done with anything eBay or PayPal related. Use a printer cartridge for 180 days and return it?  Buy a new $1000 camera, try it out for 180 days and return it?  Wear a brand new winter coat for 180 days during the winter months and return it in the spring?

Pure insanity!  If it were coming out of their own pockets this idea would not make it past the proposal stage.

Perminate Link for PayPal Gives UK Buyers 6 Months' Protection for e-Goods   PayPal Gives UK Buyers 6 Months' Protection for e-Goods

This user has validated their user name. by: bitbybit

Tue Apr 15 13:35:41 2014

Well if the 90 day return doesn't get small and medium sellers to leave ebay, then the 6 month should surely do it. Right?

Perminate Link for PayPal Gives UK Buyers 6 Months' Protection for e-Goods   PayPal Gives UK Buyers 6 Months' Protection for e-Goods

by: Mr. Me This user has validated their user name.

Tue Apr 15 14:28:03 2014

A buyer should only need a week to determine if item is what he ordered, if it is in good shape, and working. A week is generous, anything over is just plain stoopid !

Perminate Link for PayPal Gives UK Buyers 6 Months' Protection for e-Goods   PayPal Gives UK Buyers 6 Months' Protection for e-Goods

This user has validated their user name. by: Philip Cohen
Web Site

Tue Apr 15 15:13:46 2014

“As I noted early this morning when I heard back from PayPal UK, the 6-month protection is for all goods - including physical goods.”

Wow! Fee-free rentals for up to six months now! They are either insane or getting desperate. Regardless, this has the smell of a palliative care nursing home about it to me. Given that the professionals in the field, MasterCard and Visa, will give buyers a quite reasonable, in most circumstances, 45 days to lodge a transaction dispute, and then provide a professional mediation process, “PreyPal” must have been very successful at suckering users into giving “PreyPal” direct-debit access to their bank accounts (not even MasterCard or Visa have such access to your debit account), otherwise how is “PreyPal” going to enforce this policy on merchants when all the “smart” buyers start short-term “renting” instead of buying?

Methinks it’s time for at least the off-eBay online merchants using “PreyPal” to start talking to their real bank about a real-bank merchant account and “MasterPass” or “V.me” …

@Puck, MasterCard has already talked about the possibility of charging the free-loading “PreyPal” an extra fee …

http://www.nfcworld.com/2013/03/20/323195/mastercard-fights-back-a
gainst-new-payments-players-with-increased-transaction-fees-for-digital-wallets-that-dont-share-data/


“PayPal rides for free on the back of other business models. So they ride on the back of the networks for a card-funded transaction. They ride on the back of ACH, which is owned by the banks, and I think they've got to be cautious that they don't get too big and start making people wake up and say wait a minute, I'm actually losing business here because of your moving into the physical space. And, by the way, you've been able to ride for free on the back of the networks and the back of the ACH system—time out here.”
—Chris McWilton, MasterCard's president of US markets, speaking at a conference on 13 March 2013

“PreyPal”, with only ~1.1% of the total payments business, has never been, and never will be, any serious threat to MasterCard/Visa; and PreyPal’s attempts to expand into physical POS are simply a joke—and a very poor one at that, most potentially for merchants; but Johnny Ho has to try to keep the atrophying eBay marketplace afloat somehow (maybe another “reduction” in eBay fees will do the trick—LOL) …

eBay / PayPal / Donahoe: Dead Men Walking ... http://bit.ly/11F2eas

Perminate Link for PayPal Gives UK Buyers 6 Months' Protection for e-Goods   PayPal Gives UK Buyers 6 Months' Protection for e-Goods

This user has validated their user name. by: Puck

Tue Apr 15 15:41:33 2014

"Well if the 90 day return doesn't get small and medium sellers to leave ebay, then the 6 month should surely do it. Right?"

Right.

Perminate Link for PayPal Gives UK Buyers 6 Months' Protection for e-Goods   PayPal Gives UK Buyers 6 Months' Protection for e-Goods

This user has validated their user name. by: Puck

Tue Apr 15 16:02:18 2014

Every time I read about a decision like this I get an image of the Billy Bob Thornton character in Sling Blade thinking it up.

Perminate Link for PayPal Gives UK Buyers 6 Months' Protection for e-Goods   PayPal Gives UK Buyers 6 Months' Protection for e-Goods

This user has validated their user name. by: Rexford

Tue Apr 15 16:30:28 2014

Ina, I would think many big box retailers on eBay would take issue with this. Is there any way to determine if this rule applies to anyone accepting PayPal, or are certain companies exempt from the policy?  If they are exempt, we can clearly see that this is just another maneuver by eBay/PayPal to run small and medium sellers away.  

Perminate Link for PayPal Gives UK Buyers 6 Months' Protection for e-Goods   PayPal Gives UK Buyers 6 Months' Protection for e-Goods

This user has validated their user name. by: Ric

Tue Apr 15 16:48:34 2014

So let me get this straight... eBay/PayPal believes that a company like Toys R US (who they defend to the hilt) is going to sell a toy, ship it to the buyer, and six months later after a child has played with the toy and broken it, PayPal is going to demand Toys R Us refund the buyer?

Even though it is April 15th, this is either a belated April Fools day prank, or it is the latest example of how completely and totally this company is disconnected from the real world.

Carl Ichan needs to forget about the peace offering and continue his assault on eBay's CEO. This 6 month nonsense is proof positive that this company's management is the most inept of any major corporation on the planet.

Perminate Link for PayPal Gives UK Buyers 6 Months' Protection for e-Goods   PayPal Gives UK Buyers 6 Months' Protection for e-Goods

by: Gina This user has validated their user name.

Tue Apr 15 17:57:20 2014

Lovely! Another way the UK is killing friendly international trade!  No matter how much you pay for tracking and delivery confirmation, UK Post can just drop it at the door and give you no tracking!  Now they give customers 6 months to enjoy and copy 'intangibles' OOOPS!  Now the update sayd 6 months for ALL goods!
Running to block UK shoppers!

Perminate Link for PayPal Gives UK Buyers 6 Months' Protection for e-Goods   PayPal Gives UK Buyers 6 Months' Protection for e-Goods

by: ejholden This user has validated their user name.

Tue Apr 15 18:25:29 2014

Aussie sellers are up in arms at the moment after ebay announced a 9.9% FVF on all shipping costs.
Wait until eBay's globalisation program dumps this latest act of desperation in their laps .....

Perminate Link for PayPal Gives UK Buyers 6 Months' Protection for e-Goods   PayPal Gives UK Buyers 6 Months' Protection for e-Goods

This user has validated their user name. by: bitbybit

Tue Apr 15 18:53:28 2014

Ebay has absolutely no justification in charging a shipping fee especially since Paypal charges a fee on the total amount. Isn't double dipping illegal? What does ebay do to earn a percentage of shipping?

Perminate Link for PayPal Gives UK Buyers 6 Months' Protection for e-Goods   PayPal Gives UK Buyers 6 Months' Protection for e-Goods

This user has validated their user name. by: Basset

Tue Apr 15 19:12:45 2014

180 days is insane.

Rental is the word for that. I think I would try to deduct a re-stocking fee for each week the item was away from me if it was returned past my normal 14 days.

I know U.K. consumer laws can be a bit different - does that have anything to do with this?

Like ''bidonmine'', I also keep reading the trend is for large retailers to be reigning in their return policies due to too much abuse.

Perminate Link for PayPal Gives UK Buyers 6 Months' Protection for e-Goods   PayPal Gives UK Buyers 6 Months' Protection for e-Goods

This user has validated their user name. by: Ric

Tue Apr 15 19:43:04 2014

... a (PayPal) spokesperson told EcommerceBytes, ...."If our customers value and benefit from these new protections we may consider extending this program to other markets."

Another example of eBay/PayPal corporate disconnect. The statement indicates they are listening to buyers, but sellers.. well sellers have been "noise" since John Donahoe joined the company.

The statement shows how sellers are wholly disregarded with regard to consequences of newly formed policy. It is obvious that eBay/PayPal feel that sellers have no choices.

They forget that sellers are free to abandon eBay and PayPal at anytime, and the implementation of this policy could have sellers stampeding for the exits.

Sellers need to start working on their exit strategies - not just for eBay as a marketplace, but for PayPal and payments as well.

In a recent conversation with an eBay outreach agent over the extended holiday return issue, the suggestion was made that as a seller, I should wait and see how the change effects me before making any changes to listings strategy or store subscriptions.

I asked that agent if they were walking down the street, heard a crash, and saw a bus careening out of control in their direction, would they wait to see if the bus hit them before trying to get out of the way?

The response....crickets as usual.

Perminate Link for PayPal Gives UK Buyers 6 Months' Protection for e-Goods   PayPal Gives UK Buyers 6 Months' Protection for e-Goods

This user has validated their user name. by: Rexford

Tue Apr 15 20:05:32 2014

Ric says "They forget that sellers are free to abandon eBay and PayPal at anytime, and the implementation of this policy could have sellers stampeding for the exits."

This speaks to the total arrogance of the company. I think that the company management think that they can implement any policy whatsoever, no matter how outrageous and no matter how harmful to sellers, with no repercussions.  Think again eBay / PayPal management.

Perminate Link for PayPal Gives UK Buyers 6 Months' Protection for e-Goods   PayPal Gives UK Buyers 6 Months' Protection for e-Goods

by: Xander This user has validated their user name.

Tue Apr 15 20:29:47 2014

Ebay will continue to ratchet down on sellers while forcing them to give more and more generously to ebay buyers worldwide.

They know many sellers will stay and take the abuse, they have history to draw from now, they'll continue to pressure their sellers to go along with their insane pro buyer dictatorship.


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