Breaking: eBay Considers Eliminating Buyer Feedback

by: Bloggo

If anyone thinks the selling environment on ebay can't or won't get worse, you are wrong.

by: NullApps

I would be OK with this.  I've been saying for 5 years that buyer feedback is now completely useless and causes nothing but problems.  Eliminating buyer feedback removes one potential line of contention between the buyer and seller.

Buyers sometimes don't want feedback and get upset when you leave it.  Buyers get upset if you don't leave it first.  Buyers get upset if you don't leave it immediately upon payment.  Buyers get upset when you leave feedback but also expect you to have shipped at that time.  Buyers get upset when you don't leave feedback because it should be automated.  Buyers get upset when you write the same thing every time.

Just don't call that point automatic point a positive feedback.  It isn't.  They should list a transaction count and be done with it.

by: bitbybit

Only if DSRs were eliminated too.

by: wanda

Yep... Ebay has killed the small seller.  They are running the lie about how the government shut down is affecting e-commerce.  Which i find odd because my direct customers have made recent purchases and i have had repeat customers on ebay... customers who already know what i sell and return to purchase again... but no new customers.  Ebay killed that for me, and Ebay killed that for countless thousands of other Americans... Ebay is complicit in the destruction of America.

by: froggie

I don't get it. I can't see where this would make any difference whatsoever to the seller, especially since the real boogie man in the closet for small and medium size sellers are the DRS's. I didn't get the survey, so I look forward to seeing what else is in it.

The whole dsr system is so much like elementary school, it is just deplorable and totally skewed against sellers.

It will be interesting to see how all these changes pan out. At the rate they're coming, ebay will most likely be unrecognizable come the spring of 2014, and most definitely by fall of 2014.

by: JustTheFacts

ebay still REFUSES to deal with the actual problem and that is their very FAILED DSR system.

The FB although used as a WEAPON by buyers, does not causes the damage to sellers as the dsrs.  But the most damage is done by ebay itself because of the PUNISHMENTS it puts on sellers for dsrs even though they know full well it is WRONG 90% of the time.

DSRS are counted for EACH item in a transaction, as where FB only counts 1 time.

What ebay, Amazon Etsy etc SHOULD be doing is dealing with BAD sellers not punishing sellers because even 2-3% of buyers complain about something.  That is LIFE.  Besides, MOST of the complaints from buyers are because of their OWN negligence to READ the descriptions and ask questions about what they do not understand.

They need to keep their noses out of our business and just worry about sellers who are not shipping the items, not giving what they promise and things like that, which is NOT a majority of the sellers.  But ebay is too busy MICRO managing the sellers that is causes more problems than it solves.

It creates animosity between buyers and sellers and sellers and ebay.

Let the buyers and sellers work it out.  If they cannot THEN take it to ebay, Amazon etc and then judge the matter FAIRLY and based on what actually took place, NOT just automatically side with the buyer.

The real world does NOT work that way and buyers know this.

Did the person get what they were promised, did the buyer READ the description, does anyone have actual proof of what they are claiming etc.  

Heck if they REALLY want to eliminate a majority of problems, give sellers the option of self PROTECTION from claims, which is to VIDEO ALL SHIPMENTS.

This will allow the seller to prove they shipped all of the items ordered and as promised, they were NOT broken at shipment,and that they worked when shipped.

Then if something is missing or broken it is done in shipping and an insurance claim must be filed.

This way the buyer and seller are BOTH protected and it will eliminate FRAUD on both sides.

You will eliminate the ''empty box or box of rocks'' claims immediately.

Any seller who is not willing to video their shipments would run the risk of trying to prove their case.

Video cameras are very cheap and it is definitely worth the cost of doing business.

If they eliminated FB and DSRS, they would eliminate a majority of the problems because buyers would not have anything to use as a weapon and will then COMMUNICATE with sellers and stop extorting them.  Let the sellers decide if they are willing to go above and beyond to make the customer happy.  Most will because it is often in their best interest to most of the time

However,this would also force the buyers to take responsibility for their actions such as NOT READING what they are buying and stop acting like 5 year olds who only look at pictures.

This too does NOT fly in the real world.

But ebay is once again only focusing on Feedback, which is NOT the real problem.  It is a problem but not the REAL problem.

Getting rid of FB is the equivalent of putting a small band aid on a gaping wound that is gushing with blood.

If you read the survey closely you see that ebay formed the question to get the answer they WANT.

''what impact would you expect the following changes to buyer feedback to have on the fairness and accuracy of today's seller standards rating system?''.

Notice how they COMBINE the two when in fact they are totally DIFFERENT systems.

People can and DO leave positive FB while also giving all 1s in the ''ratings system'' and it is what they actually do in the ratings that has the real impact on sellers.  

So the answer to the survey is NONE.  You should expect it to have ZERO impact on the seller standards rating system because they are two different BEASTS just done by the buyer at the same time.

This survey is just more smoke and mirrors and is just another one of ebays red herrings.

by: Orwellwasright

Ebay's buyer base is diminishing. They can jiggle and wriggle, and spin and make the numbers read however they see fit, but every seller Sees it and feels it. Because of this exodous, They need to insure that their platinum’s and diamonds on whom the have pinned their future hopes, are fed the ever decreasing stream of potential buyers...

Thus the DSR system is designed to eliminate the small/medium seller whom ebay openly despises, it is their tool to provide Legal Justification if necessary for their PREORDAINED decision to pare down the seller base

They will NEVER eliminate the DSR system, It is an extremely carefully thought out tool which allows them to eliminate Hundreds or thousands of sellers anytime the marketplace becomes too saturated for the D's & P's , If you understand the end goal is to ELIMINATE seller over saturation you will understand that THE SYSTEM WORKS EXACTLY as intended, and in EBAYS mind is working perfectly

As far as eliminating buyer feedback, it is inevitable, Ebays Goal is to make the seller as anonymous as possible, an interchangeable entity for whom the buyer has no loyalty or even easy access to. As we have seen ebay has been eliminating any information access the seller had in order to guage the buyer.

In short , Ebay wants a marketplace where the seller is completely anonymous, faceless, interchangable, without access to any Information for any buyer and completely helpless against buyer claims .

I predict at one point even the name of the seller will no longer be available in item views and ebay is right now working on a way to hide ALL buyer info from all small sellers .

Ebay has recently clearly stated they have the right to hide any sellers items for any reason they decide, and have demonstrated repeatedly their eagerness to winnow out the herd. Its almost become a game seeing what the next step will be.

It is literally heartbreaking for those of us who have been on ebay since the beginning to see the horribly abusive, unsafe and unfriendly sell-at-great-risk seller abitoir the site has degenerated into

by: used2luv2sell

I agree with JustTheFacts that the DSR's are the problem with feedback.  Face it - ALL buyers, including those who abuse returns have 100% good feedback, which makes buyer feedback totally meaningless.  However, I still like to be able to check how many negatives they leave, because that can be ''telling'' about a buyer.

Meanwhile, sellers are still stuck with DSR's given by those same buyers who demand discounts, free shipping & returns (well, NON-returns; keep the item & get a refund) because they are never satisfied & Ebay doesn't catch on to this.  wink wink.

As long as I as a seller am given DSR ratings by unscrupulous buyers, the system will be unfair.  Buyers are still able to leave positive feedback with as many 1's as possible.  It makes NO SENSE except to the rule makers at Ebay who don't have seller feedback because they don't use their own product.  I wonder if CEO execs sell on Amazon?  :)

Perhaps once they finally pull the rug out from under ALL small/medium sellers feet & blast us from their system, they will THEN realize that those small sellers WERE their good buyers!   It's somewhat amusing that they have not connected the fact that I was a huge buyer way before I started selling.  Now I'm not a huge fan of anything Ebay & it's all due to how Ebay has treated ME as a seller.  Treat me poorly as a small seller & I will quit spending my time looking for items to buy.  

Where have all our buyers gone?  It's not a hard question to answer Ebay!

by: OnceuponaTime

This survey is designed as a counter of buyers....sellers.... buyers who sell.... and sellers who buy....

This is how I see it working for eBay


If you click the first comment
'''''''' Current system is much more fair''''''''
you are a buyer, because eBay knows sellers are not happy with the current system.

If you click  the second comment
''''''''Current system is somewhat more fair''''''''
you are a buyer  who buys more than they sell. Because you buy more you see the current system somewhat more fair but as a seller would like to see change....

If you click comment number four
''''''''This new concept is somewhat more fair''''''''
You're a seller  who sells more than they buy. But as a seller you are not happy with the current FB system, but hope it will be better than the current in your sellers favor.

If you only sell, and answer with,
''''''''This new concept is much more fair'''''''' you are deemed (or should I say marked ) as a SMALL seller......
Because the current system is worse than this in your eyes, and anything would be better then the current system....You hope....

Oh yes ALL large and diamond sellers will click the center,''''''''No impact'''''''' because they already have been given the eBay assurance of special treatment...This is just MO as I see it.

by: JustTheFacts

Again ebay execs are either to ignorant or arrogant to understand that sellers are their BEST cash cow buyers.

Why? Because sellers live online and they BUY and play online.

If you surveyed 100 people who never sold a thing online and 100 who do sell online and asked them how often they BUY online I am sure you would find that maybe 10-15 of the 100 who never sold online actually bought and currently buy on line, and that at ALL 100 online sellers have and still currently BUY online.

Online buying is the online sellers environment.  online sellers will and DO buy things online that the average person who does not sell on line and even the few that do, would never even think of buying online.

So, when all of the venues, market places etc talk about their buyers,who they are really talking about most are their own SELLERS!

This is why every time ebay punishes and or purges their sellers for their never ending FLAWED and FAILED rating systems, they LOSE more and more of their BUYERS.  This is a FACT that cannot be denied.

Even sellers who are not purged but punished and treated unfairly STOP buying. I know this for a fact because I STOPPED buying on ebay as well after I had got fed up as a seller from the never ending punishments and unfair treatment.

I might have spent $600-800 in the last 5 years on ebay as an ebay seller, although I have spent at least $5-6 THOUSAND on Amazon in just the last 2 years, and 10s of thousands more online in other places directly from websites in just the last 2 years.  And 10s of thousands more over 5 years.

I have NEVER bought 1 item from a box store on ebay and NEVER will. I have bought many things from box stores directly from their websites though.

I have now stopped ALL purchases from ebay because of their latest acts of cruelty and unethical behavior.  I would rather pay more somewhere else, but I usually finder it cheaper elsewhere anyway.  However, I no longer even look on ebay for it.  

I despise ebay as both a BUYER and a SELLER!  EVERY single person that asks me about selling on ebay I warn them of just how dangerous it is.  I tell them straight out that unless they are will to LOSE their money and probably their items and be out all of the shipping and packing costs, AND get punished from ebay on tip of it for doing nothing wrong, then they may want to just have a yard sale or throw or give away the items.  Needless to say, they do NOT end up selling on ebay.

Now copy and paste my story 1000s of times over and ebays problems come in to focus.

ebay can SPIN, do all of the PR stunts they want and have all of the fake "surveys" they want but none of it is going to change the reality of ebays problems.

by: RCL

Haaaa. eBay can start hawking ''Get the Item You Ordered.... FREE!!!'' and it won't stop the bleeding. The place is full of catalog store junk. I've been looking at ''sponsored links'' items across the tops of my ended items--they are JUNK jewelry or bizarre word association mismatches! Suggesting copper pots and pans on a listing for an 18th c. copper button... One Ross-Simons ring will appear in 4 different color stones.... just mass produced made-in-China junk. No wonder nothing is selling. But I was pleased to see how many had 50% off banners!!!

by: Ric

100% of respondents could say no to the elimination of buyer feedback and it would not change eBay's plans. eBay will cite survey results (real or fictitious) as an excuse for doing what they decide they want to do anyway.

Given that eBay continually cites "preferences expressed by users", it is only a matter of time before eBay implements this change.

Users should consider the fact that eBay issued a survey as advance notice of implementation.

by: RCL

Wow--I usually spend between 45 and 60k a year online! It used to be mostly at eBay. Now it's Etsy, Ruby Lane, and other collectibles sites. eBay lost a LOT of business from me.

by: RCL

And I'm a LITTLE seller!

by: Captain Nemo

LOL, what a non-decision.  As others pointed out, buyer FB completely worthless and actually illogical in it's current form.  Here, rate this buyer - oh, and you only rate him a positive, and you can't say anything negative.

A stupid system.

by: iheartjacksparrow

"You spoke, we listened! Based on the results of our most recent survey to eBay members, buyers will no longer receive feedback for transactions. But you can still leave negative feedback for sellers if you have a bad buying experience."

by: wildsporty

I agree with all that the DSR system is not working. When we first started on Ebay...many years ago...it was an even playing field for buyers and sellers with just feedback to judge. The DSR's have turned it into a minefield for the sellers especially the smaller seller that the DSR is prevalent for 12 months before it is removed.  Not very fair to the sellers at this point.
It doesn't matter about buyer feedback as it doesn't count for anything anyway.  

by: Puck

"Great News...!"

by: JustTheFacts

Umm guys and gals..Re-Read this article.  They are not planning to eliminate buyer FB for sellers, just SELLER FB for buyers.

It says eliminating public feedback FOR buyers, NOT from buyers.

So again, the survey is a COMPLETE JOKE!  How could that possibly have ANY impact for accuracy or fairness for the SELLER ratings system.  Sellers do not get to "rate buyers".

Yet again ebay shows how STUPID they think sellers are.

They know that many will not actually read what the survey is saying and THINK it is talking about eliminating BUYER feedback because they PURPOSELY linked it to the DSRS when it has NOTHING to do with the DSRS or "ratings system for sellers.

Ina, you should call ebay out on this ASAP.

Ask them how in the world eliminating feedback for BUYERS could have ANY impact on the sellers ratings system. So what is the point of the survey and WHY did they even imply that it could have an impact of the seller rating system.  

Ric is correct.  They survey is just advance notice of what they ARE going to do.  This is of course why the survey makes absolutely NO sense.

by: ccdanger0624

I don't even care what they do anymore.  I would just like them TO THINK SOMETHING THROUGH.  Seller protection, buyer protection, whatever... the only thing they are doing is causing an insecure environment where nobody trusts ANYONE. Can they not see the stress they are causing to ALL of their users (buyers and sellers)? Can they not see the confusion, the uncertainty?  Where the hell is their Public Relations dept? Just from a business standpoint, the smartest thing eBay could do right now is to NOT make ANY more changes at ALL for awhile.  I mean don't even change so much as a font color. eBay, you seriously need to restore public trust. These decisions you are making may serve a purpose in your board meetings when looking at things on paper. But you are on a slippery slope as a company.  Nobody trusts you.  At all.  And that's a very bad place to be in.  I don't care if you've been in business since 1902... you are moving more towards business models where there is more competition.  They may seem more profitable... but with more competition and more options for sellers and buyers... you can't go that route and keep this ''I can do whatever I want and you'll take it'' kind of attitude. That may have worked with the unique structure you had when you monopolized ecommerce, but the people making decisions are not thinking like people.  You are thinking with a calculator.  It's not just sellers either. If I was a new buyer, I would be so confused at how things work as they are now.  Keep making changes and you are going to drive those buyers right out.  Put yourselves in the mind of the people who used your site.  Think of the uncertainty and confusion they must have, and how all they can do is further watch their backs and worry what the outcome will be.  You AREN'T listening to people.  You are making up stuff to serve your own agenda. But you are not immune.  Buyers aren't going to want to lose the feedback score they've racked up over the years.  THINK THIS THROUGH FOR ONCE. Because if you don't, and even worse if you make this change with no formal announcement or even VIDEO EXPLANATION/TUTORIAL on how the new feedback system works, you'll continue to appear more sneaky.  Public opinion continues to sink... drastically. If eBay.com thinks they are immune to failure of epic proportions based solely on public trust in the company... it's shocking to say this, but I could see ebay.com not exist by the end of 2014.
The feedback system is so flawed as it is.  And it's because eBay has taken the very original system, and done nothing but ''fix'' every perceived flaw with one bandaid after another for over 15 years.
There are way too many things wrong with the feedback system. What eBay needs to do now is come up with a whole new system altogether.  But they also need to do it in a manner that you'd expect a multibillion dollar company to do. Come up with plans, develop them, analyze and test EVERY POSSIBLE SCENERIO it could have. Don't change anything until you sure that it's a positive change. This means VALIDATING SYSTEM CHANGES OFFLINE AND NOT LIVE IN FRONT OF THE WHOLE COMMUNITY. It means consulting with third party, unbiased, companies. It means CARING about public relations and public perception.  Put a campaign in place to ease everybody's mind and to stop causing so much unreal confusion.  And set a ''live date'' 6 MONTHS after announcing it.  Changing anything that has to do with how business is done on eBay on a whim with NO NOTICE or HONEST explanation has got to be the stupidest strategy I could have conceive. eBay.com WILL FAIL.  THEY. WILL. FAIL. If they keep doing business the way they do. Then you'd wish you listened to your users more. eBay, you're like a bully beating people up for their lunch money.  It's time to realize that those bullies usually grow up to be complete failures.