Seller Points to Added Cost of Doing Business on eBay

by: toolguy

The bottom line

Mangled Payments is an INFERIOR product when compared to Paypal

And I think a very large majority of sellers would agree with that

Paypal has the cash to buy eBay if they wanted to

by: toolguy

@Lightning

Tell that to the people of Arab Alabama!

"As of 2017, 5 states (Alaska, Delaware, Montana, New Hampshire and Oregon) do not levy a statewide sales tax. California has the highest base sales tax rate, 7.25%. Including county and city sales taxes, the highest total sales tax is in Arab, Alabama, 13.50%." (from Google)

by: smallstuff

As others have pointed out, the fees are about the same as before when you figure in the PayPal fees (before) and the MP fees now.  I tracked this last year and saved a total of $3.16 with MP out of a total of about $1,000 in fees for the last two months of 2020.  I lose a bit on high sales tax states or foreign sales and make a bit on low sales tax states.  My store fees are unchanged and not included in the comparison.  

by: cfrphoto

It costs more to extract information from eBay Managed Payments transaction reports. Changes in mid-January expanded the reports to be useable for sales tax reporting, time required to request an annual download, retrieve the download, import into Excel, remove extraneous rows, format multiple columns, and save as an Excel spreadsheet could consume up to an hour, or more for inexperienced Excel users. More hours would be required to enter the data into a database for any query more complicated than a column total. The updated reports are retroactive from January 1, 2020 but 2019 Managed Payments data is inaccessible. Other transaction data found in Orders reports must be downloaded every other month to avoid data loss. The process of downloading and formatting and merging Orders data could take hours. The bottom line is that it is less expensive to pay the monthly SixBit fee just for the data, not to mention superior listing and order processing capabilities. Unfortunately, eBay did not fully debug the API for third-party applications until Spring, 2020.

by: Chicago48

So much easier to do business on Merc & Posh vs. Ebay and most of my sales are coming from Merc vs. Ebay.
Between Ebay and Amazon, I'm ready to dump both of them.  AMZ has become this aggressive controller of all things.

by: Marie

@lighting is correct and we've had these discussions before on various different articles presented here on this exact subject.  When you look at your FVF paid for an entire month you will quickly realize there is not much change one direction or the other.  

Sure you can find single transactions where you paid a little more in any given month but then if you are really looking you will also find others that you are actually saving a little money on.  As it washes out for any given month is it highly likely a neutral change.

But it seems to me because some are so blinded by their hatred for the program and possibly even Ebay in general that they just can't seem to see the math that is before them.  It just doesn't work or support how they feel about MP and/or Ebay, so they refuse to acknowledge it.

As to the inability to pay fees via a CC that has cash back bonuses, we are talking 1 or 2 dollars per $100 worth of fees.  So likely under $25 a year.

Now if you are a TRS that also has their listings qualify for the TRS discount, then you will more than make up that $25 in a year.  The discount is now calculated on the entire FVF fee instead of just on the product FVF.  You now get it on the Product, shipping and sales tax.

And for those that issued full refunds and PP wasn't refunding their fees on, MP does.  MP refunds the entire FVF and keeps the 30cent transaction fee.

MP is toughest on those that want Daily Deposits.  Because there really aren't Daily Deposits since they only process transfers on Business days.  For those that have chosen weekly deposits they seem to be fairing better in MP.

MP is a very basic program right now.  Lots of room to grow and improve.  It isn't as flexible as PP and that is very difficult to lose.  So it is understandable why so many are upset by this huge change.

by: Jester

I really get tired of hearing people in the comment section on this site respond in a negative way about eBay who self admittedly are no longer selling and or buying on eBay. Its not helpful to me or my business to constantly have to wade through this tripe to get to the people who are trying to figure out the best way to mitigate selling on sites who are themselves trying to make as much money as they can for their stockholders who I have been also from time to time.

I go back and forth selling on several sites. I started reselling on eBay in 2004 and continued to sell the vast majority of my items there until 2014 when I started selling on Amazon FBA. After a couple of years I was selling about 70% of my total sales on Amazon.

Then in March of 2019 I was doing 90% of my business on Amazon but had enough of Amazons no customer service and expanding fees and making it harder for smallish sellers not to mention rampant customer fraud which Amazon was not willing to address except to say in a response to my complaint you need to build into your business model at least a 15% amount for such loses.

That was the last straw and over the next few months I stopped sending things into FBA and started selling more items on eBay again and a much smaller amount of Merchant Fulfilled items on Amazon.

In the mean time eBay cleaned up their act a lot and made selling on eBay safer and harder to scam. They improved in many ways. Not at all perfect but they are a better site to sell on from a sellers perspective than Amazon unless you are a mega-seller who can mitigate or willing to take those losses on Amazon.

My largest account of my 4 accounts on eBay is now in managed payments and in some ways I like it better than Paypal who I liked doing business with. The thing that eBay MP's can never trump for my business is getting my money immediately after the buyer pays. Cash flow is KING.

Also their MP's system is sometimes slow to release the funds to us but it is better than I had feared it would be. They could make that faster but I do think they are trying to milk the interest off large amounts of our money to improve their profits. But for me there are ways I can mitigate that cash flow problem if I need too. It's not a game ender.

In the end this should encourage sellers to create their own sites and avoid the fees and restrictions but as those who have done this already they realize the money they are paying to eBay and Amazon is money well spent until you get things going after a few years if at all. And even then why not sell on your own site and theirs if there is extra profit in it.

by: Jester

And I forgot to mention that now 80% of my profits are on eBay, 10% on Amazon and 10% on 2 other sites. And I hope that Amazon amends their recent business model and policies so that I can once again sell more items safely and profitably in the future on their site.

by: Actual Seller

Bottom line, we pay MORE with Managed Payments.

We CAN still pay our "store fees" with our CC via PayPal and get 2% back but we can NOT pay our thousands of dollars in FVF's with our CC and are losing big bucks on our cashback.

eBay did indeed screw us, yet again.

And because eBay is a place for tons of illegals who for some reason can not shop on Amazon, we pay a ton of "International Fees" to people living IN the United States.

We ship to CA/NM/AZ/TX but pay as if we shipped to Mexico.

by: Lightning

@smallstuff and @Marie
Thanks for backing me up on this.  It's clear as day that the old and new programs are just about equal, money-wise, that is.  But you hit it on the head, Marie - people are so inflamed with eBay itself, they will grind any axe they can find, legit or not.

I am not a fan of eBay, hate them most of the time for various reasons, a new one each day.  But to claim that eBay is lining its pockets with MP at the sellers' expense just erodes whatever credibility the critics have.  The Sales Tax thing, not an issue.  The new fees vs. the old fees, not an issue.  All the other failings of MP, yeah, plenty to complain about.

As @Pace says, it does have a lot to do with control.  But if eBay started out with MP instead of morphing over to it, we would have all accepted it as the way it's done, just like Amazon, just like Etsy.  No one likes the changes, especially since there is no benefit, just time lost adapting.  Except for eBay, who is picking up some loose change along the way.  I suppose it's good for their stockholders, and as long as it's not a hike in fees, I can live with it.

People think eBay is picking up PayPal's 3%, but even that is untrue.  PayPal hardly ever MADE 3%, having to split it with the cc companies.  So that 1.5% split is what eBay's after.  And they won't always get that, either.  If someone pay for an item through MP USING PayPal, PayPal charges eBay's account as the seller.  So no gain for eBay at all.  It's a pass through.  They must hate it when that happens.  And NO ONE gets the 30 cents, as that is remitted to the cc companies just about every time.

The financial aspects of MP and the FVF including Sales Tax is just like the Shakespeare play ''MUCH ADO ABOUT NOTHING'', except no intermission here.

by: Lightning

@Toolguy
Apparently all the folks in Arab, Alabama shop at @lessthanthreerecords, and only those folks, God bless 'em.

by: Lightning

@ebayout
My last international sale (Canada):
$99.99 item, $25.90 Int. FR Priority Envelope ($4.95 domestic shipping), no sales tax, total $126.89.
EBay fvf was $12.89.  EBay calculated the fvf on the item price $99.99 plus my DOMESTIC posted shipping rate of $4.95, total $104.94.  They don't charge on the international shipping.  They never have.  And this example supports that.  The fvf is 12.3% of the DOMESTIC TOTAL, right where it should be.

Your example has eBay charging the fvf on the $45 international shipping.  You must be using a different eBay.  Better go back and check to see what is ACTUALLY going on, instead of using ''projected' numbers and un-researched theories.

And if MP brought my cost up, I'd raise the international fee to cover the %.  But it doesn't.

by: Marie

@lightning

I personally think the single biggest cash flow positive thing for Ebay with MP is that they are now collecting fees up front.  That has to be a BIG boost to cash flow.  Not to mention that in time it will do away with collection issues.

Newer sellers moving into MP now are having their Store fees and other fees coming from MP too.  The rest of us that aren't or don't have that happening now will move into it later.

by: leavingNY

After selling on Ebay for 18 yesrs. I totally agree with pace306. I do not like Ebay managing or playng god with my money. I will be leaving Ebay as soon as my inventory is gone. My stress level is going through the roof and it is causing severe emotional distress, to have to be on the phone with Ebay for hours and hours per month just trying to get them to follow their own rules and policies. Which they have now made very vague so they can turn their rules and policies into what ever they want now. MP is a huge rip off and I can no longer get the cash back that I used to each month from my credit card which amounted to a couple hundred $ every month for me. MP does cost me more then when we were able to use pay pal. I was switched over to MP half way through the year, which will cost me a couple hundred extra to my tax advisor to prepare my taxes having to file more forms and figure out between two different payment processors all the deductions I am entitled to. especially the sales tax that he deducts from the gross income they collect. It is going to make for a very complicated tax season for me. Early last year, I stopped doing internatonal transactions except for Canada, which I used to do forever, because of the VAT and the extra rip off FVF of the international transactions. Also international became a huge shipping headache from covid too when packages were not going through due to limited flights. Ebay standard shipping for international was making my packages severely delayed and I just could not absorb huge losses like that.
On the bright side, even without international sales, except for Canada, my sales more then doubled last year because of Covid.  Its time to retire.  

by: Snapped

Where it all really roots is in one’s patch of tolerance for loss. Be that minuscule to mighty in purse, be that ham-handed to six-covering ‘control’. Gotta know what you’re up against though, right?

The loss of control over upfront fees management, along with accompanying loss of cash flow control, no matter if or how mitigated, is a real thing nevertheless. And another collar to voluntarily don.
An acquiescing to spigot feeding from the hand at the other end of the leash.

Takes a bit of trust, that. eBay hasn’t exactly earned such endorsement. That’s a real thing too. Take their ‘accounting’ for all this skimming for example. Much trust in those reports so far is there? Everything lining up? Clarity and transparency in disclosure? Hard to see how anyone can ascertain certainty on ether side of any equation argument thereby - you can bet your business on that. Oh wait...you will be.

Of course, one’s own meticulous bookkeeping could be a checksum. Kind of negates any ‘advantage’ that leaving that abacus exercise to eBay for your above the line ciphering though. Another thing then. Or rather, nothing. In exchange for those ‘fees’.

What is this ‘adaptation’ costing is only part of the question. What is it ‘buying’ is the other. And if you can see that answer through the fog of eBay’s stumbling obfuscation, can you tolerate the delta?

by: Denny

I have sold on e-bay for 17 years with near perfect record.. E-bay only cares about their profits. If I'm wrong then I must be wrong about the following. You list something on e-bay and do all the work selling shipping returns and on and on all the work. The final value fee for higher end items is already ridiculous yet they charge you another fee on the cost of shipping to your customers. They also demand you have free shipping  threatening your listings with lower exposure if you don't do it.  Then they give buyers money back for fraudulent returns without your permission taken by force out of your account because you use managed payments. They also charge you even more money to use this Managed payments by forcing their way into your banking relationship. Is there bounced fees to the Bank because of E-bay? Good luck  if you get what your supposed to in that managed account on time or ever? Better do the math every sale and watch out. They take your ability to leave negative feedback away yet allow customers to use it to abuse you and do nothing. So now they are saying they need more money to exposure your items for sale or they will hide them?? Wow sounds like we would get better treatment dealing with the MOB.  I'm leaving and from what I've heard when the pandemic is over sellers will start flight by the thousands.  

by: Vox29

I don't plan on using MP anytime soon, as I am perfectly happy with PayPal. I get my money faster and I have a record for my Excel spreadsheet. If eBay tries to get me onto MP, that will be when I decide whether it's worth the extra expense, to stay or to go. eCRATER is easier to work with as far as listing is concerned. If anything, I may be forced to raise my prices when the postage went up. The cost of shipping may be only about 5%, but I'm in this business to make money.

I think it is absurd that eBay pressures sellers to lower their prices to below cost. I frequently ignore it.

by: HenryS137

On eBay for 20 years.  Paypal was in every way better for me than Managed Payments. I paid less fees, got my money instantly, had more control, and my customers and I were better off. Paypal had professionalism of sorts, and procedures they followed, and some ethics. Unlike eBay of today.

With MP, everything is worse, and more expensive. eBay explores exactly how much they can increase their profits and power.  Everybody else loses.  

The ''cost of doing business with eBay'' just goes up.  I am sure most of you are familiar with the phrase.  eBay CS reps end with it, when there is nothing more for them to say, and eBay has taken money that doesn't belong to them. or stated falsehoods that others took as truth, and users suffered losses as a result.

But I would like to highlight one particularly odious, and increasing pattern. And that is payments.  Increasingly, what eBay shows as completed payouts are imaginary.  No ACH transfer to a seller bank has actually taken place.  Just an accounting fiction. I wonder how far eBay can succeed in the various Big Lies.

I'm grateful this site exists.  The history of the cyber-stalking and dirty tricks eBay execs indulged in, the “Preserved Fetal Pig”, threats, live cockroaches and the like is public record, and hopefully law enforcement will not let that happen again, in the same form, to the same people.  So we have a place to report.

There are worse things happening in the world.  Other large companies covering up doing terrible things for profit. But some rebuttal to well-financed untruths is better than none.

Lauding MP as a success is like saying the coronavirus is really a good thing. Just wrong, in SO many ways.

by: MakingEndsMeet

How do you set it up on ebay so you pay for your store with a credit card?

by: Lightning

@MakingEndsMeet

On the top left of any eBay page where your name is, if you hover over it you will see ''ACCOUNT SETTINGS''.  Click on that, and it brings you to a MyEBay page, Account tab.  You will see a heading called SELLING.  Under that is a link to your SELLER ACCOUNT.  Click on that and you are brought to a page that organizes your Fees, Invoices, and Payments.  

You should be here: https://my.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?MyEbayBeta&MyeBay=&CurrentPage=My
eBayNextSellerAccounts&ssPageName=STRK:ME:LNLK&gbh=1

Near the bottom of this page it says ''Payment Method for Seller Fees''.  Under ''Automatic Payment Method'' there is a CHANGE link.  Follow that to use your credit card for automatic payments such as store fees or monthly invoices.

At least that is how it is for me, but sometimes people have different views showing.  Should be universal, but not.  There are multiple ways to get to the same page.  I have only illustrated the one I am most familiar with.  You can get there from Seller Hub, too.