Ina Steiner EcommerceBytes Blog
News and insight focusing on ecommerce.
by Ina Steiner, Editor of EcommerceBytes.com
Sat July 15 2017 15:57:30

Should eBay Guarantee NOS Even When Sold As Is?

By: Ina Steiner

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Collectors often turn to eBay for New Old Stock (NOS) parts and accessories to keep their collectibles in working condition. You can't necessarily walk into a store today and buy replacement parts for antique and vintage cars, radios, cameras, bicycles, and the like.

New Old Stock often come in their original boxes, which is often part of their appeal to collectors.

A reader alerted me to a thread on the eBay discussion boards where a seller ran into a problem when he or she sold three NOS factory-sealed audio tubes. The seller described the items carefully and said they didn't know the specific model or their performance.

The buyer claimed one was not working and wanted a refund for over one-third of the lot's selling price (over $1400), or else they would return all of them and file a claim.

How eBay handles these kinds of cases is crucial to its role as a source of hard-to-find items. If sellers can't sell rare NOS items on an "as is" basis, they might not continue to sell on eBay.

It's easy to see both sides of a transaction like this. Buyers can be desperate for parts and be willing to take the risk a 50-year-old part may not work - especially if the seller has been meticulous in their description and specified no returns. No one forces buyers to purchase items that fully lay out the risks in the descriptions.

On the other hand, there are bound to be some unscrupulous sellers who sell NOS they know to be not in working condition but leave it up to the buyer to find out.

I'm curious what readers think. I haven't read through the entire thread, but the reader pointed to page 11 of the thread, post #205 where an eBay moderator wrote the following:

"Hey everyone, I just wanted to step in and clarify that while we do expect the buyer return the item they receive in the condition they received it, exceptions would be made for testing purposes. The item is still covered for first time use.
 
"As for listing an item stating it is untested or as-is, it is up to the seller to review their products in full detail and describe them fully to the buyer. A seller cannot claim they were simply unaware of an issue and be absolved of responsibility. In the situation described here, the best course of action is to work with the buyer and consider the partial refund they are requesting. If eBay were asked to step in, we would most likely authorize the return at the seller's cost for a full refund."

Does eBay's approach to this situation come as a surprise? And given the fact a buyer can turn to PayPal to file a claim, is it surprising anyone still sells expensive, factory-sealed NOS on eBay? What are the alternatives?

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Readers Comments

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by: pace306 This user has validated their user name.

Tue Jul 18 09:18:19 2017

eXtinctBay - i more or less agree with you ... :)

The issue for me is the moving target that is eBay. Today its one thing, tomorrow its another, but its always AGAINST the poor seller who did no wrong.

Dont get me wrong there ARE LOTS of bad sellers - and those bad ones ruin it for the rest of us - but that doesnt mean that eBay has to HELP the fraud and the theft.

If the rule is X then thats what it should be. It seems that X is always Y and that buyers get off scott free - each and every time.

As an aside - Ive NEVER seen eBay stand up for a buyer when an item is listed as is for parts - I could be wrong - but in reading columns here AND on eBays own forum - its never come across that way - EVER.

Amazons policies may not be any better .... but at least they are clear.

Perminate Link for Should eBay Guarantee NOS Even When Sold As Is?   Should eBay Guarantee NOS Even When Sold As Is?

by: HardWorkingSeller This user has validated their user name.

Tue Jul 18 10:41:04 2017

Pace,

If the seller in this case listed under a ''vintage'' category and therefore was not forced to declare a a condition for the item, then I have a tad more sympathy for them and maybe eBay carries some blame for allowing the ambiguity.

But I still think that the eBay approach in all other electronic categories of forcing you to state whether an item is being sold as either working or for repair (with no gray area in the middle) is a good template to follow, even if they don't demand it.  You have a far better chance of winning an adjudication if you run into issues.

The use the more vague ''as-is'' as a get out of the Money Back Guarantee on eBay I'm sure will almost never be supported.  When I see someone trying that on in a listing as a modifier to a ''Used'' classification I figure that they're someone with a high probability of giving me hassle if I'm not happy with my purchase.

In this case the seller was asking for hundreds of dollars for an industrial component presumably in a small opaque box.  I don't believe that they realistically expected that someone would buy that just to leave it sitting on the mantle.

For me the issue turns on the amount that's being asked for and the type of item involved.  At that price for that type of component it would be reasonable to assume that the item would provide utility, and they should be prepared to stand by their product.

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by: buffalochick This user has validated their user name.

Tue Jul 18 12:16:04 2017

Buyer plainly stated that they installed 2 of the 3 and they are working. That alone, would constitute the buyer NOT being able to return them in the condition in which they were received. So this would have been a foot meet mouth case.  The buyer proved that they changed the condition of at least 2 of the tubes.  

So... the seller should have stated Return for Refund and sent them a label, which he said was $99.  When the seller does this, it REQUIRES, per ebay's own stated policy (Mickey Mouse as it is), the buyer to return them all in the condition in which they were received.  The buyer clearly could not do that, admitted to the Seller, probably in ebay messages.

Case closed in favor of the seller.  If the buyer didn't want to return all, then no refund.  If all cannot be returned new in box (tested is okay apparently), but not installed, then again, case closed.

Double talk and weasel words.  Desperation is the name of the new ebay.  Scammers spend money.  The get stuff for free that doesn't cost ebay a dime.  Ebay loves scammers.  They don't EVER look at the big picture.  Their stock price and their reputation prove that in spades.

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by: HardWorkingSeller This user has validated their user name.

Tue Jul 18 14:38:03 2017

buffalochick, so are you saying that by virtue of the fact that the buyer wasn't clairvoyant enough to know in which order to test the items, they are SOL for a few hundred bucks?

I don't think that there is any get out of jail free card to be played here.

The seller got a lot of money for their stuff and should make it right for the buyer who has done nothing that I can see to make them into a scammer.

They've paid a premium price and - it seems - done their best to honor the transaction.  They should be getting premium service.

Perminate Link for Should eBay Guarantee NOS Even When Sold As Is?   Should eBay Guarantee NOS Even When Sold As Is?

This user has validated their user name. by: Ming the Merciless

Sat Jul 22 20:09:52 2017

Ebay managers personify insanity. They keep doing the same things again and again that have and continue to fail over and over again.

The more they artificially manipulate search using actual stupidity (as opposed to their claimed artificial intelligence) the more buyers they drive away from the site because they can't find ALL and in many instances very few items within their search parameter(s).

So what has ebay done? The keep adding more and more algorithms to search to drive buyers to their preferred sellers, but the effect is in reality to create a chaotic, unreliable buying environment.

Not too long ago a buyer told me that ebay has  become a war zone, and I agree. Ebay is at war with their non enterprise, non Chinese sellers with their discriminatory policies that are selectively administered. Ebay creates small business destructive policies that pit sellers against buyers and vice versa that encourage theft and fraud.

Frankly, I think Wenig is misrepresenting the number of new sellers. They're certainly NOT coming from North America as ebay has become one of the most reviled corporations in this country and nearly irrelevant to e commerce.

If I owned any mutual funds that included ebay, I'd sue the fund manager for negligence and incompetence.

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