eBay Launches Stricter Rules with No Warning

by: ZZ

Anybody else wonder what information eBay could gleen from this "test"?
Seems to me it's like shooting a dog to see if it bleeds, like you didn't already know that.

by: RCL

I think almost everyone HAS jumped ship. I sell a small number of items  in a very specialized category only at eBay. I find the other sites I have joined are well worth the trouble of moving. eBay has the worst management online.

by: lurkulator

I haven't gone back to read the last batch of posts on the eBay community thread, but at this point my thoughts are:

Trinton says sellers don't need to upload tracking info for an INR because eBay automatically sees it. I believe he's playing word spin games and not saying that only those in the test group don't need to upload tracking, while anecdotal evidence indicates that those not in the test still do.


One point many here seem to have missed is that the OP in that thread did NOT ship that item with tracking - it was a drop ship to Japan from China. He was perfectly willing to issue the refund if he had been given the chance, but now has a big fat defect instead of having 3 days to respond to the INR with the refund as the email he received and eBay written policy states.

I also see a lot of harping on 99¢ items here. The minimum cost to ship a 12oz widget from the US to Japan is $21.60 via USPS FCPI with NO tracking (Japan isn't on the e-DELCON list). Min buyin for a service with tracking would be $45.84 for PMI, unless it could fit in a PMI SFRB for $30.35 or a PMI FRE for $29.40. So this affects more than just 99¢ widgets. Buyers aren't likely to pay $30-$45 shipping for a 99¢, $9.99, or even $29.99 widget in order for the seller to have some sort of protection against eBay. I see it totally killing international sales of any but very expensive or desirable items.

eBay written policy does not require sellers to ship with tracking or to upload it. This "test" says they must if they don't want to take their chances with getting a defect if a shipment is delayed.

What about USPS taking their sweet time at the ISC's before getting a pkg on the way on its international leg, subpar foreign postal services, customs delays, or buyers creating customs delays themselves by dawdling? Sellers have no control over any of that which can easily push delivery 5 days past eBay's "estimate". Reward? Defect.

by: lurkulator

(contined since preview button posted the comment instead)

I need to go and read the latest on the thread, but to this point I hadn't seen anything to indicate that this "test" only applied to international shipments which was all that the eBay commenters were discussing.

I already don't ship internationally, and haven't since the last policy rollout with "seller pays return shipping and customs fees on SNADS", but it sounds like this new "test" puts the final coffin nails in that.
Just not worth the trouble to me.

by: Marie

@cnyc

It isn't just offer a solution, the buyer has to accept that solution when it is in the Request stage.  After the seller responds to the Request the buyer or seller can then escalate it to a claim.

"Sellers like this one make it bad for all of us.  He should ship his items like the rest of us have to."  I'm not sure I understand this.  Is it that you want Ebay to force all sellers to only ship with tracking?  Or is it that you think this seller did  something wrong?

This seller did not "fail" to upload tracking, he ships without tracking on a regular basis for low $$ value stuff.  There is nothing wrong with that.  It is the seller's choice and that is as it should be.  Ebay is way to far up into our businesses as it is and for Ebay to mandate we must ship with tracking is just another rule that would go to far.

I certainly agree with others that have posted here that the OP should fight the defect on his account.  It may take multiple calls, but I'd do it to get the defect off.  I would not take no for an answer.  I'd keep calling until I got a CSR that was willing to work with me.

My major argument on this would be the fact that the email notifications still quoted from the existing and published policy on claims.  It clearly said the OP had 3 days to respond.  

That to me is the real problem here.  They told the seller he had 3 days, not the 24 hours.  They gave him incorrect info in writing and then punished him for not having tracking.

Now with that said, it is important to realize that this seller could NOT have won an INR even if he had the 3 days since he had no tracking.  But really that isn't the point.  It is all about how Ebay handled this.

by: buffalochick

Exactly.  I'm sure that this OP would have gladly refunded the .99 and I'm sure they have a cushion built in for items specifically like this one, that have cases opened for them.  Or, I have no doubt that he has a backup plan.  The problem here is the way ebay treated this OP, shooting him in the back when he didn't even know he needed a gun.  Just utterly disgraceful how this company is being run into the ground.

by: mcposty

In no way should any service have the right to refund any money until the item is back in your hands. There should be ample time to deal with cases..not 24 hours..it should be 7 days. END OF STORY

by: CNYC

@ Marie

While I agree that they should not have stated the seller had 3 days in the case, the loss and said defect were inevitable since he "chose" not to be included in seller protection by providing the "required" tracking.

Yes, "required", and it has been for a long time and it is "written" policy.

While, there isn't anything wrong with shipping without tracking in a spiritual or moral way and all that good stuff and the seller definitely has their right to choose, they are opting out of seller protection by doing so.

They cannot expect the 3 day rule to protect them since they do not have any protection to begin with.

The only bad on eBay's part was the wording still saying there was any chance at all to respond.  Why delay, the response is the same since there was no tracking.  I agree that this was improper and should get edited right away.

by: Whatever

Ebay just keeps shooting itself in the foot. Here's a splendid reason NOT to sell internationally. Another reason to throw in the TRP hoop jumping towel. Ebay is desperate to satisfy the stockholders and I think they are just on a steady course to eliminate any and all benefits and discounts to sellers.

by: Jester

99 cent item to Japan NEVER! That's just dumb.

by: Tiffee Jasso

Don't sell Internationally will solve one of the problems. Also keep an eye out for any messages from buyer or Ebay on "where is my Item."

by: Chicago48

I hope the seller sold the .99 item in BULK, because why would you sell a .99 item and pay for shipping to Japan which is 10 times more?

by: EbayerAmazons Corner

I am not sure if this just applies to the Ebay US.I had 2 cases where Buyers were filing fraudulent cases of item not as described and repeating the claim on Paypal when they both lost but lost again.If the time was made shorter it would not allow me enough time to present my case and locate all relevant information to allow the Ebay representatives make an informed proper Adjudication so I do not agree with a shorter time to make these decisions.The issue is to stop fictitious claims as there are many Buyers who will stop at nothing to try to abuse the returns and money back guarantee policies.  

by: Marie

@CNYC

Ebay does NOT "require" tracking.  It is optional.  It is the sellers choice and many posters here have stated.  There are lots of sellers that ship without tracking.  I wouldn't do it, but that is my choice to make on Ebay.

Ebay can't "require" it on all sellers listings.  If they did, then there could not be local pick up and they would lose a lot of sellers in post cards, coins, cards, collectables etc.  There are many sellers that sell things that shipping with tracking is cost preventative.  These sellers could ship FC domestic for 50 cents with no tracking.  To obtain tracking they would have to pay $2.61.  That is a HUGE price difference and would drive most out of business.

It was a complaint by these sellers from the start of the TRS program as they can never obtain it because they don't use tracking.

You stated above that sellers can opt out of shipping with tracking and you are absolutely correct, we can.  Which means it is NOT a "requirement".

"They cannot expect the 3 day rule to protect them since they do not have any protection to begin with."  You are talking about two completely different things.  Of course these sellers should have 3 days to respond to the buyer.  There is absolutely NOTHING in the published Ebay rules that says they lose this right because they don't have tracking.  They can and should be able to depend on what the email said and the published policy.  This isn't a bad seller, it is a seller that got caught up in an Ebay "test" without any notice and it damaged their account.  That just should not happen.

Furthermore the emails the seller received FROM EBAY notifying them of the INR by the buyer SAID they had 3 BUSINESS days to respond which was NOT what Ebay did.  They blindsided the seller and closed it in 24 hours from the time it was opened by the buyer.  This buyer opened it on Saturday and Ebay closed it on Sunday.  So not only did they not honor the business day rule, they significantly shorten the amount of time the seller had to respond.

"The only bad on eBay's part was the wording still saying there was any chance at all to respond.  Why delay, the response is the same since there was no tracking."  WHAT?!?!?  So are you saying that you wouldn't mind if you got caught up in some unannounced "test" that Ebay was running, with an email to you that was completely gives you misleading instructions and as icing on the cake they damage your seller stats.  All of which was done without ever telling you what was going on.  Somehow I think this would be different if they did this to you.

@whatever

No need to throw in the TRS towel because of this problem.  It won't affect ANY TRS seller as one of the requirements to be TRS is the uploading of tracking.  This has NO net affect on TRS, so if you are looking for a reason to give up your TRS status, this isn't it.

by: Windkissed

From what I have seen, ebay does anything they want with no regard for the sellers at all.  The same goes with paypal.  Stick to the policies that you insist that the sellers stick to.  That is good business.

by: Jono

Is this complete stupidity only occurring on eBay.com? Just wondering if eBay.co.uk has been infected yet.

by: VV

"...if tracking not provided"

Problem solved. Enter tracking. Tracking goes on EVERY shipment when it is SHIPPED. Can't believe at this point no one uses tracking. If not you are begging to give your merchandise away.

by: CNYC

@Marie

It is a requirement to be covered by seller protection.

"If you ship an item within your stated handling time and provide tracking information to the buyer before you or the buyer asks us to step in and help with a request, you're protected."

Source: pages.ebay.com/help/policies/seller-protection.html



It is not a requirement to follow that in order to sell.  However, as stated you are then not covered.  So, if you want to be covered, yes, it is "required", otherwise you are not covered, you cannot expect to get protection or delays in refunds because you did NOT supply the required tracking that would give you the coverage.


It is like insurance, you are not required to have mandatory state car insurance laws in 1-2 places in the US, however, that does not mean if you cause an accident you are free from prosecution and liability.  KWIM

The seller may have sent this item from Chaina to Japan with free shipping (probably a stamp or 2) and it did not arrive.  He still has to make good on it, tracking or not.  The required tracking would afford him 3 days more to reply, he didn't have it so he had no expectation of coverage.  Those that supply it have that expectation.  The seller protection coverage "requires" tracking.

by: epuise

Seller did NOT UPLOAD TRACKING #
... IF you BUYERS want CHEAP SHIPPING... you can't be FORCING sellers to ADD TRACKING... that SERVICE... COSTS MONEY...

by: fAlken

Ebay is ridiculous.  I think they're doing it to purge sellers.  Ebay is so damn shady, they take an Office Space "The Bobs" approach to this.  The same way the Bobs fixed the Milton problem by "Fixing the glitch" without confrontation so things work themselves out and his paycheck just stops coming so payroll refers him to his boss and the boss back to payroll.  Ebay is run in this terrible fashion. They reduced the TRS FVF amount, at that moment we should all know that they're desperate and trying to do anything they can to show positive numbers to wall street.  With this last shady move, it is very apparent that ebay is circling the drain right now.  Perhaps not their entire brand, but their marketplace is a failure.  Back when ebay was IT and running that campaign, they were hot.  But they were the original ebay, not this steaming pile of shit we have now brought to us by douchebags with silver spoons in their asses who have never actually used the site ever.