eBay Launches Stricter Rules with No Warning

by: Marie

This so called ''test'' will NOT affect most sellers on Ebay.  If you ship with tracking and you have uploaded that to Ebay, you won't be affected by this change / ''test''.

But sellers that sell really lightweight items and typically ship via FC mail [no tracking], this could present a real problem.  These sellers need to be aware of this and prepare for it if they can.  

In these cases, there would be no way for a seller to win the case in the first place as there is no tracking.  But that doesn't excuse Ebay for not announcing this so called ''test''.  This is a change that can significantly affect the health of some seller's accounts and therefore Ebay had the responsibility to INFORM sellers of the ''test''.  But yet again, Ebay decided that these affected sellers didn't need to know.  They can discover it as a SURPRISE!

To make matters worse, the emails they auto send regarding the buyer's claim still state you have the 3 day window when if fact that is a complete falsehood.  They are aware that the email is misleading / incorrect yet it remains.

Some are saying this is another attack on small sellers.  It isn't and it has nothing to do with the size of a seller.  It has to do with tracking or no tracking.  

This ''test'' is for a claim filed by a buyer FIVE days AFTER the latest stated arrival date on the purchase and the seller never uploaded tracking.  That isn't most sellers.  

While this may have a negative affect on sellers that do not use tracking when they ship items the reality is that a seller that doesn't use tracking CAN'T win a INR case even if they had the 3 days to reply.  No tracking = No win.  Still it is unfair for Ebay to do this without warning or notification.

@pace

Your ''cheerleader'' comments are really unnecessary.  Those that choose to support Ebay have just as much right to do that as you have to voice your opinion.  Just because you disagree with me and/or others from time to time does not make us ''cheerleaders'' it merely means we have a difference of opinion.  Nothing more.  I respect your opinions.  I may not agree with them sometimes, but I respect your right to have them and voice them.  Why do you feel that others don't have the same right?

by: gramophone-georg

The real problem here isn't an unannounced stricter rule.

The problem here is that the OP got a notice from eBay TELLING THEM they had until 29. June to respond, yet the case was closed and the strike given on the 25th.

This isn't just a rule change. This is a sucker punch where eBay tells sellers one thing but does another.

Fraud and theft are more like it.

by: iheartjacksparrow

Like almost everyone else, I think this is a horrible policy and clearly goes against their TOS. As others have stated, not everyone looks at their account 24 hours a day, which could mean a case is opened and closed without the seller ever knowing about it.

I have a couple of ideas why this new rule might be implemented. I recall reading an article where eBay stated they were looking for more high-end merchandise to be sold on the site. So this might be a way to rid eBay of non-Asian small sellers who are consistently selling low-cost items, which don't bring in much revenue to eBay.

My other idea was that eBay was attempting to go to a "tracking on every sale" policy. Obviously, if you sell something to a foreign country with a price of less than $1, you're not going to pay for tracking (or the buyer most likely will not). So if the seller doesn't provide a tracking number, this new policy results in "purchase tracking or else" for the seller.

And I propose starting a Change.org petition that all future tests by eBay be solely on toolguy's account.  

by: pace306

Marie - I didnt mention you at all - but if you feel that you ARE and eBay cheerleader and that "you are being effected by my comments" ... then I asked - how can anyone in their right minds SPIN this ?

EVERYONE can voice their opinions - and me myself? as much as I criticize eBay I still sell there - being critical doesnt mean you cant be honest.

As for what a cheerleader is ... at least to me ..... Its someone that no matter what happens, always tries to spin the TRUTH which is negative into something good (or at least neutral.

Whether is the complete and wholesale ignoring of eBays FRAUDULENT returns system (fake SNADS), the debacle with the BBL - where eBay went DIRECTLY (and still does go directly) against stated policy, the theft of sellers pictures, the unasked for relisting (who cares which tool is used to create the sale), VERO abuse, not showing listings, putting 4th party outside listings in YOUR listing and more ... the list goes on and on.

At some point - the evidence is OVERWHELMING, that eBay is NOT ANY sellers friend and isnt at this point your partner.

How many times (must a man ...) must eBay stick the knife in anyone's back before they wake up and say "THIS COMPANY is doing me/us WRONG".

Again - I didnt say YOU at all - but in this case - the most important part isnt that there was no tracking (different but important issue) but 1) eBay lied AGAIN - the TOS and emails said 3 days not 1 - and you cant spin that and 2) if eBay closes the case early (SUPRISE!! FROM LITTLE DEVIN) then the seller (instead of refunding the buyer and solving the issue) will get a defect - since they DIDNT respond .. but they possibly COULD have in the other 2 days. How can you spin that?

by: exdwh

@Marie,

What other people are saying is correct. Even if you've already entered a tracking number, even if it was an eBay label, even if it shows delivered before the estimate, the buyer can still open an INR case and the seller has to reenter the same tracking number into the empty box in the dispute. I've called eBay CS asking them how this was possible. They insist that I copy the tracking number into the dispute before they can escalate.

--David

by: exdwh

Does it state anywhere in the member agreement that we'll have to log into a foreign-language site in order to respond to a dispute?

--David

by: Marie

@pace

You have called me that many times over the years if I say anything positive about ebay or state they aren't at fault for whatever thing being discussed.  So while you may not have meant it to describe me or my postings on this blog, you did so only about a week ago when you were really not liking my post on another blog here.

"As for what a cheerleader is ... at least to me ..... Its someone that no matter what happens, always tries to spin the TRUTH which is negative into something good (or at least neutral."  I wasn't doing that on the other threads when you called me a "cheerleader", I merely saw things differently than you did and you passionately disagreed.

"EVERYONE can voice their opinions - and me myself? as much as I criticize eBay I still sell there - being critical doesnt mean you cant be honest."  And being honest doesn't mean you are or have to be critical of Ebay.  Just back a few posts, you posted "1) TOOL - shut up".  While I understand that Tool can be a bit annoying from time to time, he still has the right to post.

"2) TOOL - stay on topic"  Sometimes this is hard to do as other things might be related.  Just as you did in this most current posting talking about Vero, BBL, etc.  None of which has to do with the subject at hand.  So if you don't want others to go off topic, why do you.  I don't disagree with you about those other subjects, but they have nothing to do with the current issue.

I have not tried to "spin" anything.  My posting above isn't  a "spin", just my observations and opinions.  On this particular subject we are not that far apart in our opinions.

by: Marie

@exdwh

"What other people are saying is correct. Even if you've already entered a tracking number, even if it was an eBay label, even if it shows delivered before the estimate, the buyer can still open an INR case and the seller has to reenter the same tracking number into the empty box in the dispute. I've called eBay CS asking them how this was possible. They insist that I copy the tracking number into the dispute before they can escalate."

I never addressed this issue and it isn't what the article is about.  With that said, in my experience with an INR is as you describe except I've never had to re-enter the tracking number.  But I must add that I have not had an INR claim in over a year, so things may have changed that I'm not aware of.

If you ever have concern about tracking not showing up that you uploaded when you shipped, go into the sales record and you should be able to see the tracking number.  Even if you've got a message from Ebay that says it needs the tracking number for the INR.  Just copy and paste it into your INR if you need to.  It only takes a moment and it is time well spent in an effort to keep your Request closed without getting a defect.  Annoying as it may be, it is an easy work around.  It doesn't have to be a catastrophe or cause you to lose a claim.

by: pace306

The "subject at hand" is YET ANOTHER dirty eBay trick.

What it has in common with everything ELSE that I mentioned (VERO, returns etc) is that eBays rules/TOS say one thing, and then eBay makes up something thats different.

TOOLS exclamation that he got a defect removed had nothing to do with the premise - eBay LYING yet again.

I didnt mention you this time - but if the shoe fits ......

The questions STILL remain. Its not about saying anything positive about eBay (though there isnt anything positive to say), its about how YET AGAIN, in the face of eBay LYING to its sellers "they arent that bad", "they arent out to hurt sellers", "they arent out to hurt small sellers" ... when time after time, Update after Update, lie after lie - eBays behavior is the exact opposite.

If you dont see it? Thats just fine - Im not here to convince you (or anyone else).

The question remains: eBays TOS says 1 thing, and they sprung a "test" on some poor unsuspecting seller and caused them a defect - FOR NO REASON.

TRUE, they should have used tracking - but that WASNT the point I was making - it was THAT AGAIN - eBay LIED.

Its just that simple.

by: Marie

@pace

You continually take statements [full and/or partial] out of context to further the point you are trying to make.  You just did it again.  ''...eBay LYING to its sellers ''they arent that bad'', ''they arent out to hurt sellers'', ''they arent out to hurt small sellers'' ...''  Those are partial statements I made on another blog here that had NOTHING to do with this subject.  But you want to make it seem like I said this about this problem or as a blanket statement about anything to do with Ebay which is completely wrong.  And I told you that on the other blog repeatedly but you are insistent to use them on anything to do with Ebay.

My eyesight is just fine [well as long as I have my glasses on] so you don't have to be concerned about that.

''The question remains: eBays TOS says 1 thing, and they sprung a ''test'' on some poor unsuspecting seller and caused them a defect - FOR NO REASON.''  I don't disagree with most of that with the exception of ''for no reason''.  Ebay has a reason.  You nor I may like or agree with their reason, but they have one.

Yes, I firmly believe Ebay is and was wrong with the way they handled this ''test''.  I believe I said that in my first post.  If I didn't, it was a simple oversight on my behalf.

by: FeelingFroggy

@pace

You can call me anything you want. An ebay cheerleader is fine BUT think about this before you spout off again.

We have five stores. Total of about 30000 auctions. We get up in the morning. Get our pot of coffee and start packaging for shipping. We answer all the questions received through the night. Any problems we take care of immediately including any and all claims. If someone didn't get their widget we automatically refund and block. If someone needs a tracking number that for what ever reason we send it.

In about 4 or 5 hours our day is done with ebay. We shut the puters down and get about living till the next morning.

We don't spend time whining or crying about something that we can't change. After 19 years on Ebay we can truthfully say YES we have had problems. Common sense usually fixes it. If a buyer is cranky and nasty we don't agitate.


Our calls to Ebay are mostly to get a case closed and at that maybe 2 or 3 a month.

Its a grind to read all the hype on the discussion boards. As if someone knows everything that ebay is trying to do.

We have heard it all. EBAY IS TRYING TO GET RID OF SMALL SELLERS. ( Wheres the proof. Saying so isn't proof.)

Most of the sellers that do all the crying just like to hear themselves whine. Its an attention getter.

For 19 years we have practiced DON'T ARGUE, RELAX, REFUND AND BLOCK,

It has worked well for us. Now about that cheerleader thing. You betcha. Ebay is the only place at this time that has the traffic. So settle down, have a drink, relax.

QUIT WITH THE SKY IS FALLING AS YOU HAVE NO PROOF,

by: pace306

I didnt have you in mind (for any of these posts - until you said something about it) other posts ... well those are another kettle of fish.

THIS time - it was a general condemnation for those who continually try to find a way to let eBay out of their bad ways.

The thread on eBay is over 250 posts (more or less) and EVERYONE there has the same opinions (just an FYI - not mentioned to try and sway anyone).

THIS issue - like many many many others - is illegal, immoral and just plain wrong.

I agree with you - the OP was wrong from the get go - but it was their choice NOT to use tracking - and they were prepared to refund the guy - until Devin Wenig took the knives out for yet another seller.

If you do get a chance to read through the posts - you can see that even that idiot TRINTON cant answer the simple questions - and that in and of itself is indicitive that eBay (once again) KNOWS that its wrong.

As for your personal opinion of eBay - it is what ever YOU  decide it to be - not mine - but I cant see (1) ONE, UNO, thing that eBay "has done right".

Was closing half.com without warning a good thing? (rhetorical) - and that was only last weeks debacle.

I say its vindictive behavior, others may say stupidity, lack of caring or short sightedness - but if it was a car dealer, or your roofer and THEY pulled crap like this (it says you are covered for damage but then they lie and say you arent) you would be in court in 5 mins - and with good reason - so why is eBay any different?

by: Snapped

''Carrier Leave If No Response.''

Those words are on every package shipped via Amazon.  Which means, no matter what the conditions (safety, damage, delay) of delivery, if an INR claim is made, either another one is immediately shipped, or a full refund made.  Period.  

And that's for tracked packages.  Even the 'delivered' ones.  Period.

I suppose if there were to be no way to control shipment of a replacement, only the immediate refund could be considered in 'settlement'.  And there need be no 'unprofitable' debate.  Period.

As long as we're playing at 'Be Like Mike', at least.  And as long as euuuuuge businessmen of any notoriety can consistently lie without consequence, don't look for a conscious to clean this dirt.

Surprise test?  Bad enough.  But surprise application of sanction as a factor of the 'test'?  Unconscionable.

Period.

by: Marie

@pace

I've read the thread on Ebay from the beginning.  Some agree with you and some don't.

"I agree with you - the OP was wrong from the get go..."  I never said that. The OP has the right to decide for themselves if they want to ship with or without tracking.  While I wouldn't ship without tracking, that doesn't make it wrong for someone else, it just makes it very risky.  From my view the OP was taken by surprise just like the rest of us.  He was not given the time to work things out as stated in the email notifications he received regarding the INR.  Ebay is the one that was completely wrong on this one, not the seller.  

While this particular subject Ebay has completely messed up.  Fortunately it won't affect sellers that upload tracking when they ship an item, so it could be worse.

 

by: Frank Abagnale

@pace @marie @pace @marie @pace @marie @pace @marie @pace @marie @pace @marie

by: comet

@Pace----Wow.  Is there some reason you have decided that  WE should be on the receiving end of whatever is wrong in your life right now?  People ON THIS TOPIC have said they AGREE with you and you are STILL attacking!  This is really uncalled for.  

We ALL have our frustrations with ebay.  Even ToolGuy had to have something resolved.  IF that worked for him--great.  If things are not working out  between you and ebay right now-maybe it's time to take a break.

As for me--I don't have anything that is actually SELLING.  Nope.  Pretty much--nothing.  So--in a way-I am envious that you all seem to be having enough actual SALES to have crabby people return stuff!  (Not that this makes the aggravation easier!)  Hopefully you are selling MORE than you are having problems with.

And I am certainly NOT a cheerleader for ebay as you know!  But---one thing I noticed recently at  local soft ball games.  The teams who were having their girls cheer were making it very DISTRACTING for both teams!  

I know that since November I have had a LOT of things that are distracting and infuriating and making ME a crabby person as I view the world.  I am trying very hard to NOT take this out on any one other than the persons who DESERVE it--and this is NOT ebay in my world!  Punch a pillow;  take a drive; turn on the shower and scream if you have to.  Don't take it out on those who didn't cause the problem.  Please.    

by: pace306

*I* didn't attack anyone and I didn't even mention Marie by name (I'm sure you left that part out by accident).

Nothing is "wrong" in my life at all - eBay seller or psychologist?

I sell on multiple platforms and yes eBay seems to be the worst of the 3, but so what?

I'm sorry you aren't selling anything, but even if/when you are - I'd much prefer if eBay didn't hand you an unwarranted defect.

by: buffalochick

Ebay's very own printed policy states that you are to enter tracking "into the case", as your response to an INR request. So...that tells me that ebay CANNOT see tracking already entered into the transaction.

Honestly, trinton STILL thinks that ebay can program the number from transaction to request.  He is wrong, dead wrong.  But if you dare point out that fact to him, you will be doomed from the boards.  How they get away with this is beyond me.  His outright lies should be held against him in a court of law.  If I were this OP I would take this to the top and get this defect removed.  Everyone be advised that that thread will have changed overnight.

All lies will have been corrected or removed.  Surely someone has an INR request that they can post as proof.  Ebay's own policy has been posted.

He's just such an idiot.

by: buffalochick

What I just cannot fathom is working and honestly representing a company that screws over so many people with lies and deception. Surely there are jobs out there that let you sleep at night. How could he be that gullible or that evil?  To do my job, KNOWING that I just ruined someone's account, on purpose, with intent, would haunt me forever.  He must be that evil as well, so do not give him a pass, he is a willing party to all of this seller massacre. He is purposely, knowingly, helping this company stab sellers.  

by: CNYC

"Under "eBay Money Back Guarantee timelines - Item not received," eBay includes this provision: "The seller has 3 business days from the report to respond to the buyer or offer a solution. If the seller does not respond or offer a solution, the buyer can ask us to step in and help."



Yes, but this seller never had seller protection since he failed to upload tracking:
"If you ship an item within your stated handling time and provide tracking information to the buyer before you or the buyer asks us to step in and help with a request, you're protected."


He never had protection so the rule of 3 days for those protected should not apply to him.  

Sellers like this one make it bad for all of us.  He should ship his items like the rest of us have to.