eBay Drops Bombshells in New User Agreement

by: alfabarn

Marie, I know that they are separate issues, what I wanted to get across was that the options given the buyer in that program, where given to a buyer who initiated a dispute with a seller who does not participate in that program. The concern being that under this new policy more and more buyers will go right to dispute and require the seller to take part in a process that does not include that sellers refund policy as an option.

It goes like this.

1 I am not in managed returns.
2 the buyer opened the dispute by contacting ebay, the buyer did not contact the seller..  
3. Ebay contacted me with the news that I should send a replacement or issue a refund. (MY POLICY - return for refund only)
4 I contact the buyer and ask that he return the item for a refund.
5 Ebay gives the refund
6 Buyer trashes DSR's
7 Ebay deletes from my inbox all messages from buyer
8 Csr unable to find record of dispute, (remember deleted messages?) But does recommend manged returns as a way to avoid this problem in the future.

I hope that was a little clearer.
also the item purchased was a NOS, NLA switch. the buyer knew this to be irreplaceable, and that his demand would get him a free item. That is the purpose of a SNAD scam. I did not take the CSR's advice, instead I removed all NOS NLA items from the store, and shut down. I will not give away free unobtainium, a term used to describe Italian NOS long before that movie.    

by: Marie

@alfabarn

I think you may misunderstand.  A buyer can REQUEST return for refund, but they can NOT REQUIRE it.  They don't have that power.  

The lack of participation stated in the announcement by the seller has nothing to do with the Managed Return Program.  The lack of participation in the announcement is when a seller ignores or otherwise chooses NOT to respond to a claim.  These are sellers that are NOT signed up for the Managed Return Program.

A buyer has no power at all to require a seller to sign up and/or use the MRP.  I'm unsure of where you are getting that from.

As to your bullet points.
1.  OK
2.  OK
3.  Ebay doesn't send an email like that.  They notify you that a claim has been opened that you need to take a peek at.
4. You should never contact a buyer directly once a claim is opened.  Log it into the claim that you are willing to take the return for refund.
5.  No they don't, unless you check the box to issue the refund right away.  They do not just do the refund automatically.  You may be clicking on the wrong thing inside the claim.
6.  That does not have to happen.  If you have acted responsibly, politely and professionally with your buyer, chances are they won't be doing that.  Certainly it does happen, but not normally.  Most times a buyer just wants to fix the problem not hurt you.  Unless you have been difficult to work with.
7. In all my years I have never had that happen.  I'm not saying it doesn't happen, I've just never had it happen to me or known anyone it has happened to. You are the first one I've ever seen bring this up.
8. Same answer as 7.

If your buyer has a history of this bad behavior, call Ebay.  That is sad that due to one bad transaction you would shut down.  I think you just misunderstand a few things and with some help you could accomplish and continue on with a good little business.  

by: Puck

@Spokonzaga Pete:
"Ebay is taking part in sweatshop tactics, misrepresentation and extortion..."

The "New eBay" as Mister Charlie.

The role fits them well.

by: pace306

Marie

Thank you but I DONT need your lecturing or your postering.

Ive been in the business LONGER then you, and have worked for companies 10x bigger then ones you have worked for. I have an outstanding reputation in the industry - do you?

I dont have a problem doing what is RIGHT by my vendors, my creditors OR my customers.

What I WONT DO is let eBay steal from me. If you like it, if you dont care, if you cant understand that MY livelyhood is on the hook and others WORSE THEN ME are getting a pass ("on my account") thats between you and what ever diety YOU believe in. If they make sales becuase my listings are being hidden, then the money is being stolen FROM ME, both by eBay and by them!

I dont steal from anyone and I expect that in return.

If eBay forces me to take things back WELL BEYOND either 30 days, or items come back missing, used, or broken or even a combination of those items so it puts ME in the position to have to deal with it - its STEALING from me.

My vendors dont care about YOU or eBays snowflakes. Im not Macys, I dont get 100k a year in back end funds to cover issues. I dont get the perks that eBay gives sellers like that to cover issues either - maybe YOU DO?

And if TRU or one of thier precious Diamonds have to deal with it - so much the better!

How dare eBay make unfair demands like that on me? How dare they NOT treat everyone the same?

Ive been on eBay LONGER Then TRU and I dont get 200 negatives a month, never mind 1000 a month. I havent gotten 200 TOTAL since the 90s when I started. ANd if I did - Id be GONE - a long time ago.

If TRU or those others are getting sales because eBay is stealing VIEWS from me - views I pay for - then its just deserts for them to have to pick up the pieces when theres an issue - its only fair.

Im not interested in your opinion(s) on it though - but you have a right to them and you have a right to disagree

by: NetWatch

@RCL, please help promote my petition (send people to it here or cut and paste it and forward it to as many as you wish). @pace, even if ebay does have an out, the FTC STILL need to coming knocking...

by: midcenturygallery

Maybe the CEO can be contacted through his facebook concerning these new changes to the user agreement?

by: Marie

@pace

You are speaking of things you have no knowledge of.  You don't know what my background is.  I'm not sure why you assume you do.

Your definition of right and wrong may be different than mine.  For me, taking money from someone without that persons knowledge and someone that had nothing to do with my problem at hand is equal to stealing.  That's just my opinion.  

You apparently define it differently.  Taking from a seller that had nothing to do with an issue and had nothing to do with the rules you object to is beyond inappropriate.  

It would never even occur to me to steal from another seller just because I didn't like something that Ebay did to me or to try and recover some amount of money I felt Ebay took from me.

You apparently blame Platinum sellers for things they have no control over and had nothing to do with.  You justify taking from them because you believe they are conspiring against you with Ebay.

But you are ultimately correct that we will just have to disagree on this matter.  

by: Digmen1

Maybe a good time to move or try another site that has fair policies, I'm on ebid.net they have auctions as well as buy now.

by: Ric

midcenturygallery suggests: "Maybe the CEO can be contacted through his facebook concerning these new changes to the user agreement?"

Perhaps you forget that eBay's CEO John Donahoe considers small sellers to be little more than "noise".

This aloof CEO believes he knows better than the small sellers his company allegedly serves, and as such has zero interest in hearing from sellers, considering their opinions, or reconsidering his own positions.

All this CEO is interested in is posturing in any way necessary to increase the value of eBay's stock so that he can cash in his gifted shares and grow his personal wealth by millions with each transaction.

To accomplish this, he implements self defeating policies and processes, then proselytizes their alleged benefit to Wall Street analysts so they will speak positively about the company and help drive up share values.

John Donahoe has already stated that sales on ebay are disappointing, and even lowered expectations for Q3 2013 knowing as he does that these new policies will be unpopular with sellers and subsequently drive many out of the marketplace.

As SKU diversity declines with each seller who leaves, buyer interest and activity declines as well.

Supposedly, this CEO holds an MBA, but apparently, his education does not enable him to visualize the fact that it is the unpopular decisions made by his hand picked management team and approved by him are what is the biggest contributor to eBay's inability to grow sales.

This kind of ignorance is common amongst executives who time and again put their accumulation of personal wealth ahead of all other concerns, including doing what is right and fair for the company's customers.

Unless his unpopular actions put downward pressures on the value of eBay's stock, or, until a federal agency such as the FTC takes a long hard look at the user agreement and the company's practices, expect more of the same.

Microsoft is about the only company that can save eBay from it's slow death by making Donahoe an offer he can not refuse.

Donahoes departure from eBay, is about the only hope small sellers have of seeing fair treatment restored.

by: Luxferro

@Marie,
Sellers like pace306 don't want the opinion of others because when it comes to ethics, they bow to no greater authority than themselves. But despite his "two wrongs make it right" philosophy, what he does is still fraud.

@Ric
Over time, the "noise" story got distorted. I believe the only mention of noise by Donahoe was in regards to the threat of boycotts by sellers. Like it or not, he is right; I have been here since the birth of eBay, and the boycott idea comes back over and over again, always with the same failed result.

by: midcenturygallery

Ric I agree I just thought it would be funny for a bunch of noisy sellers to contact him and other members of ebay management through Facebook. You can see what a technical wizard he is by the fact all his friends are viewable by the public.

by: bitbybit

@Netwatch

Your link to the petition is not working correctly

Tried several times but an error is showing on change.org

by: Ming the Merciless

I haven't and won't sign the petition because ebay will further retaliate against active ebay sellers who sign it.

I've filed three FTC complaints in the last three years, and they've gone nowhere. I used to post asll sort of info about filing complaints to various agencies but stopped because I never really thought anyone actually filed any.

Maybe this time will be different.

But I still have some presence on ebay and so I'll not be signing the petition to avoid retaliation.

by: auctionguy

I used to work for a large company that went through a lot of the same types of upper management decisions that ebay is now, mainly changes to try to prop up the short-term profitability and stock price without planning for the future profitability and stock price. I, and thousands of others, got laid off due to these short-sighted management decisions. The company is still in business today, but their sales, profitability, and stock price have been relatively stagnant for more than a decade. They certainly haven't been growing like they were in the previous decade. They have been through several CEO's who each took their golden parachute and went away with big bucks, getting rewarded for leaving the company in poor shape. Yet the board of directors keeps voting for what each successive CEO wants. The marketplace is growing, but that company is getting their lunch eaten by competitors. SMH

by: auctionguy

I'm already selling through several other venues. If ebay requires me to use their managed returns, I will no longer offer returns. If buyers rip me off by getting refunds for items they haven't returned, that will be the last straw, and I won't be selling at all on ebay any more. I'm already headed in that direction. When I get a little more established on the other venues, I will no longer be a Top Rated Seller on ebay. I will no longer be a seller at all on ebay. :-)

by: The End

Excerpts from the Ebay User Agreement :

"The entity you are contracting with is eBay Inc."

"...the actual contract for sale is directly between the sellers and buyers."

"While we may provide pricing, shipping, and other guidance in our Services, such guidance is solely informational and you may choose not to follow it. (It's O.K. to pay with Postal Money Orders)."

They removed the "Monkey" from the train and had it write this TOS.

Having read the TOS in its entirety...
It makes absolutely no business sense.
It also appears to have been written by someone who consumed the 'shrooms.

by: auctionguy

As ebay dictates more and more details on how we sell items (picture sizes and background colors, payment methods, returns policy, etc.), the closer we get to the legal definition of employees, rather than independent contractors. Will ebay put us on the payroll? Will the IRS look at the business relationship between ebay and sellers differently?

by: Massachusets Howler

Lets not lecture 1 another, surely everyone is shocked to actually see this admittal in print, and the other crap in there.
Folks should be able to vent and we should be more understanding- not taking things so literally.

All good posters here, so let us stay focused on the enemy- ebay.
MH
Time to just use the 150 ads, keep extras down, move excess to other sites, advertise IN shipments, move OUR buyers and pluck ebay. Sell your new on amazon and spread your other crap around.

by: Massachusets Howler

And YES, as always, Ming is right.

Everybody is right now DIRECTLY next to a phone. Look on the 1st or 2nd page of this story for the FTC phone number and make that call to file a complaint complaint now. They take your name but they DO NOT SHARE IT WITH Ebay. The lady today said they look for issues that create lots of calls- they look for patterns so let us give them one.

Please folks make your call now.

Mass Howler

by: Massachusets Howler

Toll Free

1-877-FTC-HELP
which is:

1-877-382-4357

Call now and tell the FTC what ebay has done- it is tortious interference, also tell them Paypal doesn't have a license to hold- just a money transmitters license. Filing this complaint takes under 5 minutes and they give you a reference number.

MH