eBay Drops Bombshells in New User Agreement

by: iheartjacksparrow

Tula says: "[W]e all have to analyze this in the context of our own business models and see if it is going to affect us or not."

Listing items to never be seen by anyone is definitely not a part of my business model, and I doubt it would be part of anyone else's business model. Even if you're only using the 50 billion free listings that eBay gives you, that's time out of your life that you are using for items that won't be sold because no one is seeing them.

by: NetWatch

Tiffee, very well stated and I agree completely. Kudos to all of those here today who actually called the FTC and took 5 mins. to make a report. If you haven't yet done this, do it tomorrow. Kudos to any small ebay seller victimized in any way by ebay who has taken the time to post here,, on the ebay discussion boards, and on blogs on the internet. It is VITALLY imperative that a SUSTAINED, CONTINUED effort take place to get OUTSIDE INVESTIGATION and/or INTERVENTION in to ebay by a government regulatory agency such as the FTC. It is VITALLY imperative to get further mainstream media attention into this latest outrage by ebay (letters to editors of newspapers, contacting investigative reporters at TV stations, etc.) When a major corporation FLAGRANTLY announces that it is engaging in activities that are BLATANTLY tortious interference, it's time for the big boys to step in and do something. I am fairly certain that something has already started, that the ball is actually rolling. The next few days, weeks, and months should be very interesting for anyone watching ebay. I stopped listing anything there BY CHOICE back in early June and would recommend that ALL small sellers switch to alternatives, even if those alternatives are yard sales, flea markets, consignment shops and the other online selling sites that don't yet seem to have the traffic that ebay does (with the exception of Amazon of course).

by: iheartjacksparrow

@Marie - Can you point out where in a prior announcement, post, or whatever that eBay stated that they wouldn't guarantee that anyone would ever see a seller's items for sale? Because a lot of people who post here seem to be blindsided by this pronouncement.

by: ConsumerAtLarge

I've been noticing this for some time now.  i.e. that I do the same search and get different results.  In fact, I'm getting crap I'm not even searching for, but not finding the items I AM searching for.

This is particularly noticeable when you go into a category and browse items instead of doing a general search.  i.e. things you're seeing in the category list, don't show up in the search results for exactly the same item.

I've had enough.  I spend more time 'tweaking' searches and using saved search these days than ever before.  It's not making the buying experience better, it's making it HORRENDOUS. When you're on wireless broadband, it's even more HORRENDOUS.

So not only are they driving consumers away from certain sellers, they're also driving them TOWARDS their preferred sellers= 'In your face, in your face, in your face face face'....

I seriously wonder how Ebay's 'Unfair consumer contract' aka user agreement, reconciles with Australian consumer laws and trade practices?  Surely it's a misleading document, given that it waives all liability as a 'venue', while actively manipulating buyers and sellers out of their rights and autonomy.

Can anyone imagine a 'shopping centre management' telling its commercial tenants how to sell, what to sell, and which payment method to use?  Not likely, so why does Ebay get to do it in the ecommerce arena?  Monopolistic is as monopolistic does.

In the same way, could anyone imagine a centre management herding consumers away from certain shops in their complex in favour of others?...nup, so how does Ebay the ecommerce nazi get away with it all the time?

by: auctionguy

So, I should spend time listing on ebay, when potential buyers might not even see my items???

by: auctionguy

Rather than fixing Cassini search, ebay is renaming it "Can't see me" search. Or was that one of the goals of Cassini?

Ebay continues digging their own grave, deeper and deeper.

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

by: Ric

Tula says: "[W]e all have to analyze this in the context of our own business models and see if it is going to affect us or not."

Ahhh... there is the rub since eBay will not tell any seller if, how or when their items will be effected.

It is now no longer possible to plan a business with eBay as a partner.

Let's say you are a Top Rated Powerseller and obtain a lot of Dell computers that come off lease. You clean them up, test them and begin listing them on eBay. You play with pricing and find a sweet spot where they sell rather consistently and you are happy.

THEN... suddenly, without warning the sales dry up and with a little research you find it is because eBay has taken your listings out of search. No reason, no notice, no indication of how long - they are simply gone.

You ask yourself why... and begin to do some more research.

You find that the Dell anchor store on eBay appears to also have received a bunch of the same model computer back when the corporation they leased them to upgraded, and theirs are the only PC's of that model which are showing in search - and at a higher price than yours were listed for.

In this case, eBay defers to their Anchor Store partner with exclusive prime visibility, and intentionally hidden all listings of that model PC from other sellers and is giving the SKU exclusively to Dell until they clear out their inventory.

After the Anchor-Diamonds have sold off their inventory, then, and only then will small sellers items begin to reappear in search.

What eBay is telling sellers of every size is that they have now empowered themselves to hide any listings they choose and that they may do so for any reason such as giving their Anchor - Diamond sellers exclusive visibility until they sell out of their inventory.

Sellers are outraged because this scenario can happen with virtually any item from any seller where an Anchor store or Diamond seller sells the same or similar item, and eBay will afford effected sellers no notice, no warning, and worst of all no fee credit when their listings are intentionally hidden in search.

Seeing it spelled out in a User Agreement does two things.  One, it affirms that eBay has taken advantage of you in the past and two, eBay is telling you they will continue to do so in the future. The difference being that now they have spelled it out and are more likely to expand the practice whenever they see fit to do so.

As a small business person, how does one commit to purchasing inventory to sell on eBay when they are telling you that at any time, for any reason, they can choose to make your listings invisible.

As a business person, it is no longer possible to trust that eBay will treat you fairly because they are telling you up front they more than likely will not.

eBay has always had a credibility problem with their sellers and they have compounded that problem 10 fold with this latest change to the UA.

by: Rexford

Xander says "Ebay has used a “slow conditioning” method by making unpopular changes every number of months as to allow sellers to adjust their mindset into accepting them without driving them away."

Xander, that is called creeping normality--the way a major negative change, which happens slowly in many unnoticed increments, is not perceived as objectionable.

Unfortunately, almost everything eBay do these days is objectionable....and unconscionable.

by: Marie

@auctionguy

I'm going to remember that one.  That is REALLY good!

Cassini = can't see me

I'm LOVING IT !!!!

by: NetWatch

    I've started the petition "Request Federal Trade Commission Investigation Into Ebay, Inc.: Scrutinize ebay's egregious policies and actions towards small sellers." and need your help to get it off the ground.
   Will you take 30 seconds to sign it right now? Here's the link:
   http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/request-federal-trade-comm
ission-investigation-into-ebay-inc-scrutinize-ebay-s-egregious-policies-and-actions-towards-small-sellers
   Here's why it's important:

   There are a number of things going on inside ebay that are adversely impacting thousands of sellers, 15,000 of whom were "purged" on August 6, 2013 in ebay's latest implementation of DSR abuse/misuse to eliminate small sellers from ebay, and the latest ebay admission of hiding sellers' listings in search.
   You can sign my petition by clicking here.
   Thanks!
   Jeffrey Varnado

 


   
 

by: pace306

The hurtful thing in all of this is/was SEEING it in black & white for the first time.

For me however, it was the second time. I've been mentioning it here over and over and over and over that eBay said this is what was going to happen 2 yrs ago at CES.

It was printed in black & white in TWICE ... but no one listened.

Its not about me being right - Id rather be WRONG, my point is that NO ONE wanted to expose eBays dirty little secret - and its a shame that something had to force thier hand and make them admit to it.

I imagine that thier lawyers went through it quite clearly and "cleared it" for publication - using the lies that at some point your listing will show somewhere AND that you pay for listing abilities not viewing guarentees.

eBays bet - that no one can/will stop them, and based on history - no one ever has. No ones stopped thier shill bidding activities, no ones stopped thier VERO abuses and no ones ever stopped the inequities of the DSR system (where you can get 1000 negatives in a month an be "top rated").

If I was an attorney Id say "fraud by deception", but you would have to find someone who knows this stuff "cold" to make a real judgement.

eBay wants to be Amazon so bad it hurts, and they will do ANYTHING to get to that point.

If it means pissing away 15K sellers then so be it.

eBay prefers large sellers because 1) almost guarenteed FVF amounts (ebay sees the spreadsheets they upload aka the FEEDS, so they know what they will be getting in thier pockets) & 2) they have thier own CS people - JD loaths spending money on CS people, agents etc.

Its a shame eBay has sunk so low that to make money, to look remotely profitable they have to sink to using deception and criminal acts to prop things up.

For all the people who think that GRIFF, Rich etc are your friends or are there to HELP - you are absolutely 100% mistaken. These people are there as faces to lure you into thinking all is ok - its NOT.

Business practices WILL go into effect - the question is when and how bad will it be when implimented. How much more money will JD want from sellers?

I contacted the NY Times today - but I doubt they will reply. Tomorrow I will ontact TWICE. It goes to EVERY person in the CE industry - let them explain to Samsung how bad eBay behaves.

As it is TWICE barely mentiones them, I wonder what they will say now?!

The industry must know somthing, as I got an email today from buy.com (rakuten) stating "if you are unhappy with eBay, switch to us!" ..... (I would but there arent may sales there!)

Thank you to everyone that contacted someone (FTC ets) - lets try to keep it going - maybe a senators office or the new Consumer Protection bureau in DC.

by: pace306

FYI - eBay is so gunning to get Amazons electronics biz, that they posted THIS job offering on TWICE:  (anyone interested??)


Job Title:


Category Manager Electronics


Company:


eBay


Post Date:


Aug 01 2013


Location:


San Jose, CA


Job Description:



eBay - Category Manager Electronics

eBay is looking to hire an exceptional Category Manager within our electronics department to help fill our virtual shelves.  Unlike a typical retailer, eBay doesn’t own inventory.  You’ll work with our ‘sellers’  and use consumer insights  to develop business strategies, and marketing plans to help make ebay the primary destination for electronics.

Candidate Profile:

·         5+ years of Category Management/Buying for online/omni-channel retailer

·         Deep understanding of the Computer, Cell Phone, CE, Video Game, or Photo business

·         Analytical driven; experience developing, owning and executing market leading strategies

Please send resumes to gbecks@ebay.com

by: auctionguy

@Marie, "Cassini = can't see me" - I love it too, but I can't take credit for it. I saw it posted somewhere else, probably in one of these forums.

by: spirit-of-shiloh

''we updated the provision regarding listing conditions to recognize that the appearance and placement of listings in search and browse results will depend on a variety of factors.''

So what ARE the variety of factors????? :(

by: Xander

There is no doubt ebay could care less for American Mom and Pop shops. They have squeezed out the small competitor in favor of big business partners.

The time to stand up and fight has arrived. Let’s stop the corporate pillage before they silence the masses with low to no sales.

Action can be taken in many fashions; sellers can leave ebay, buyers can seize to buy from ebay and both can file complaints to the suggested authorities then continue to hammer on, the abuse must stop and soon!

Something worth mentioning again: Ebay has shown total disrespect for American losses by posting the details of these changes to their user agreement on Sept 11th (9/11)

How insensitive does a company have to be to use a tragic date in US history to inform ebay sellers their suspicions about visibility have been correct?

One would think with a large company such as ebay, their public relations department would recommend another date but there you have it folks, in your face business as usual at it’s worse.

Considering all the legal representation the ebay corporation has, it’s questionable as to why Sept 11th was selected to publicly announce this change to their UA?

Coincidental or with intent?

by: Xander

Lets change the last sentence to:

Coincidental or careless disregard?

by: auctionguy

I decided to do a little research on customer ratings of online selling venues. I found some very nice comparison charts, right here on EcommerceBytes:

2013 ratings:

http://www.ecommercebytes.com/cab/abu/y213/m02/abu0328
/s02

2012 ratings:

http://www.ecommercebytes.com/cab/abu/y212/m02/abu0304
/s02

Comparing the 2 years' results, I found it interesting that, while ebay is still in 5th place, the ratings have dropped significantly in all categories. ''Recommend'' has dropped from 6.2 to 5.2. Overall has dropped from 6.5 to 5.7. Could this be a sign that ebay is travelling along the death spiral? With the new changes to the UA, I suspect the 2014 ratings will show even greater change. I wouldn't be surprised to see ebay lower than 5th place as well. Time will tell, as long as there is another survey and report conducted next year.

by: ConsumerAtLarge

Xander, the US isn't Robinson Crusoe....Ebay are giving the royal B.O.H.I.C.A to the entire globe, including Australia, whose ACCC are as useless as tits on a bull.

BTW, BOHICA = Bend Over Here It Comes Again !!! (in case you're wondering).  I reckon it's time we had an 'international' protest against these thugs.  Australia has done it once before IN 2008 against 'Paypal only' and we won.  It can be done.

The UK aren't backward about coming forward either, so lets not leave them out of this.  

It's time we join forces as ALLIES like we all do in times of RL conflict.  Did I forget Canada & NZ? Naughty me (it's a Commonwealth thing)...lol

by: ConsumerAtLarge

BTW, I've just posted a 'happy hour' thread on the ECB forum for anyone who wants to talk about 'stuff', or just have a laugh or a bleat.  Thank God it's Friday. (here at least)...in fact it's Friday the 13th.

http://www.ecommercebytes.com/forums/vbulletin/showthread
.php?t=25173

by: Massachusets Howler

OBVIOUSLY- ebay will now use secret policy violations that we cannot SEE now that will put us on Double-secret Probation.

They WILL use the policy ''violations'' on the next seller purge pre-Christmas.
Mark my words.
Mass Howler
Remember: Work will set you free.