Ina Steiner EcommerceBytes Blog
News and insight focusing on ecommerce.
by Ina Steiner, Editor of EcommerceBytes.com
Sat Aug 28 2021 21:30:02

Does eBay Payments Have a Chargeback Problem?

By: Ina Steiner

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Sellers are increasingly exposed to the new way eBay handles chargebacks under its Payments system compared to how they were handled under PayPal, and some are finding it unsatisfactory. (But don't call it a "chargeback" problem - eBay has done away with that term.)

The issue came up during eBay's weekly chat session on Wednesday when a seller said the system for rebutting chargebacks under eBay Managed Payments is different and not as robust as PayPal's was in the event of a fraudulent transaction.

It's a costly issue, since eBay, like PayPal, charges sellers $20 if the financial institution sides with the buyer in a chargeback dispute.

Buyers always had the option of filing a chargeback through PayPal, but some say scammers find it easier to do so through eBay Payments. Sellers discussed the issue in this thread on the eBay boards, where one seller noted sellers had the opportunity to appeal a chargeback through PayPal, but not through eBay Payments.

And at least PayPal did some screening before they automatically refunded the buyer, a seller said. "You could also contact PayPal and appeal your case. You cannot contact the CC company or the bank since that information is not available to you and eBay will not provide it. Under MP a chargeback is virtually an automatic refund to the buyer, no communication, no appeal, no recourse."

On Friday, a seller filed a report on Ecommerce EKG in which they described eBay's handling of chargebacks as an "exploitable eBay loophole that needs to be closed." 

The seller explained they had sold an item that arrived on time and as described. They noted that despite the fact they accept returns, the buyer opened a chargeback instead of messaging them or at least opening a claim first on eBay. 

The buyer's bank backed the chargeback and there was no way to appeal it through eBay, the seller said - he was out the part he had sold, the money for the item - and the fees. 

But according to eBay policy, "When a dispute is opened, you'll receive a notification from eBay. You must respond to the dispute within 5 calendar days of receiving the notification."

We'd like to hear from sellers how eBay handles chargebacks under Managed Payments compared to how they were handled when PayPal processed their payments on eBay. And is there something eBay could learn from how PayPal had handled chargebacks?

There's another thing worth noting about chargebacks on eBay: during the weekly chat, there was some confusion about the terminology when an eBay moderator said he was not supposed to call them "chargebacks" - they're called "payment disputes" now.

When asked, he said eBay was not trying to change the industry term of chargeback, but said from eBay's perspective, there were two types of post-transaction issues: Requests and Payment Disputes. 

"A request would be something under the eMBG - so Returns or Item not Received requests. If those aren't resolved we can be asked to step in and assist. 

"A Payment Dispute is a dispute raised by a buyer directly with the financial issuer (bank, credit card, PayPal, etc.). They can also be called "chargebacks", but we call them Payment Disputes."

(eMBG stands for eBay Money Back Guarantee.)

It would seem from the reply that eBay is also now using a different term for "claims" - calling them "requests" instead.

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This user has validated their user name. by: LasVagueness

Mon Aug 30 08:28:56 2021

“The Revolution will be complete when the language is perfect.” — George Orwell

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by: lancecorp This user has validated their user name.

Mon Aug 30 09:48:24 2021

The $600 1099 starts in 2023 - not 2022.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/26/its-going-to-get-harder-to-av
oid-telling-the-irs-about-income-from-online-sales.html

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by: spooky This user has validated their user name.

Mon Aug 30 09:55:45 2021

over 23 years selling on-line. Had 2 chargebacks through paypal and both came back in my favor. Had 1 chargeback recently eBay managed payments and lost. The eBay rep I called said bank probably dandy even research as it is too costly and much easier to just make me pay. After complaining I got a full refund by eBay but it was like they were doing me a favor. Situation completely sucks eggs.

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This user has validated their user name. by: LasVagueness

Mon Aug 30 11:12:05 2021

@lancorp ***Thank you*** for your useful and informative link. That is a BIG issue for many.  

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This user has validated their user name. by: iheartjacksparrow

Mon Aug 30 12:07:58 2021

@Marie - Your post is referring to INRs, not chargebacks, which is what I was referring to, and which other sellers have recounted their bad experiences with Mangled Payments.

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This user has validated their user name. by: toolguy

Mon Aug 30 13:22:55 2021

@Marie, if I went back to 100% money orders I bet I wouldn't get any sales!

Before this covid mess I could go to the swapmeet and make $500-$1000 in a day. But it was hard work and a long day. But if I needed money the swapmeet was there.

It just started back up but my fear of covid is keeping me away. All that dirty cash. . . .

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by: Old School Seller This user has validated their user name.

Mon Aug 30 13:39:02 2021

@lancecorp
You are incorrect r.e. 2023 vs 2022 1099-k tax reporting!  Read it again!  You will get a 1099-k form for 2022 sales in January 2023.

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by: agedtechie This user has validated their user name.

Mon Aug 30 14:04:05 2021

For Sure!  Any excuse can result in a buyer getting his money back whether we receive the returned item or not.  We have received empty envelopes with a supposed return and eBay gave them their money back.  They won't even discuss it with us if we call.     Yet, when the seller received a package, all he had to do was to say it had been opened in route and he gets his money back.....no USPS investigation of proof.

Funny, but I buy on eBay all the time and find sellers pretty much 100% straight.   As a seller, we find a lot of buyers will go to all lengths to cause grief, even tho we give money back plus shipping if there is a problem.  Example:  buyer giving us a negative because he received a coin worth about $30 MORE than the one he ordered (this really happened!)...did he return it?  heck no...

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by: Marie This user has validated their user name.

Mon Aug 30 14:17:47 2021

@Jack

A Chargeback can be for an INR.  So what I stated before is still accurate.  

If a seller loses a chargeback that was for an INR and the tracking shows the item was actually delivered to the buyer.  The seller can appeal it and get it reversed.  The Ebay policy is clear on this subject.  One of the very few that is clear, but clear nonetheless.  

I'm actually in MP and I have had chargebacks too.  So I do have actual experience with this.

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by: Marie This user has validated their user name.

Mon Aug 30 14:20:04 2021

@Old School Seller is correct.  The threshold for 1099K's drops all the way down to $600 in 2022.  For those of us that have always claimed our income appropriately with the IRS, this makes no difference whatsoever.  But for those that have not been properly claiming their income to IRS it will be an issue for them.

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by: Silver Ice King This user has validated their user name.

Mon Aug 30 14:23:23 2021

@ZZ

The easy way to take care of that shipping problem is to sign up and use one of the 3rd party shipping sites.  Personally, I use Stamps.com and have for many years after ebay refused to lower their USPS pricing on the first 4 ounces when USPS made that mistake many years ago and have been very happy with them.  I just pay for the postage I need using my Paypal CC so I also get money back on the deal and go from there.  They also waive the monthly fee for all Ebay sellers plus you don't have the ever changing screens and issues with the shipping page because the useless offshore programmers once again had to monkey around with something.  I am also able to easily combine shipments when necessary due to Ebays broken program.

Another 3rd party program would be Pirate ship which I have not used but have heard many good things about.   Either way I would leave Ebays shipping disaster immediately to take care of your problems and maybe use a CC that earns you mileage on an airline so you can take a free vacation away from Greedbay...lol

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This user has validated their user name. by: iheartjacksparrow

Mon Aug 30 15:27:48 2021

@Marie - If, according to you, eBay automatically finds in favor of a seller if a chargeback is for an INR that shows delivered, how is it that so many eBay sellers are complaining that they are being charged $20 and eBay won't do any investigation? I don't think they are all crazy or misinformed, so how is it that your experiences differ so wildly from other eBay sellers?

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by: lancecorp This user has validated their user name.

Tue Aug 31 12:06:36 2021

Don't try to school me - you made it sound like the small time sellers would be getting a 1099 in 2022 for 2021 sales which is incorrect. 1099s after $600 in sales will not start until 2023 for any sales over $600 in 2022.

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by: pace306 This user has validated their user name.

Wed Sep 1 11:42:21 2021

"Does eBay Payments Have a Chargeback Problem?"


No, eBay has a honesty and integrity problem ... the other issues are just mirrors of the others.

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by: Opalie This user has validated their user name.

Wed Sep 1 21:48:01 2021

You want to know just HOW bad charge backs (sorry, payment disputes) can get under ebay's MP?

Just read this thread posted today on the forums selling board.

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/Chargeback-Just-wh
en-I-thought-I-have-seen-it-all-on-eBay/td-p/32241089/jump-to/first-unread-message

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by: Opalie This user has validated their user name.

Wed Sep 1 21:49:52 2021

Sorry, that thread WAS on the selling board but they moved it to the payments board.

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by: terry55 This user has validated their user name.

Fri Sep 3 17:27:44 2021

ebay does not back the sellers, I had a fishing rod get broken in shipping, I ask the buyer to send me pictures of the rod, box and packing material for the insurance claim. Buyer didn't even open a return on ebay, went straight to their paypal and open a dispute. All ebay can say is contest or fight it, fine what about getting my item back, that's up to the buyer. I'd rather the buyer had open a return, even thou its broken I could have fined a insurance claim. Buyer says he wants a return label and he'll send it back. Sorry can't send one because you didn't open a return, so now I'm screwed out of $70

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by: Mazdaman This user has validated their user name.

Sat Sep 4 22:00:44 2021

@ZZ,

The latest case where the buyer claimed non-delivery was one that eBay charged their dispute fee on when the dishonest buyer lost the eBay "INR" case and then filed a chargeback with his CC company.  The CC company of course found in the buyer's favor - despite both the USPS and Ebay's tracking (coming from the USPS) proved the item was delivered.  Over nine days later the buyer actually SENT US THE ITEM HE CLAIMED HE DIDN'T GET - for whatever reason, but perhaps because his CC company saw he received it.  But we LOST the dispute, because eBay.

We've previously been charged that $20 fee and eBay has refused to refund it to us EVEN WHEN WE WON THE CC DISPUTE.  They'll claim it "costs eBay that much to fight for the seller" - though they're NOT fighting at all for sellers.

Worse, eBay's current "dispute" page no longer allows the seller to provide ANY PROOF, PHOTOS OR LINKS at all - all we can do is provide the tracking number!  So it's quite clear that eBay DOESN'T WANT TO FIGHT FOR SELLERS and intends to simply buckle under the CC outfit's claims, no matter how ludicrous or wrong they are.

We asked eBay for the name of the credit card used, and I'm sure we don't have to tell you their response.

Ebay, under Managed Payments, will buckle under and dispute now, no matter what, which is why Managed Payments works so well for them, as there is nothing preventing them from simply TAKING money from your account.

Infuriating is the fact that even winning a dispute DOESN'T cause eBay to refund that $20 - because "Why should we?".  We CAN take it, so WE WILL take it!

Yet we keep getting surveys about "Would you recommend eBay as a selling venue to a new seller?" and silly questions like that every month.  Ebay is a lot like some buyers - they don't "bother" reading the info given to them and will just count on "resolving it later" - by outright theft.

Fortunately, we have our own website and other venues, and as sales on eBay continue to drop we see increases on our other venues, which still puzzles the San Jose Mafia.

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