eBay Is Performing Significantly Better than Expected

by: acc756

How much of that growth is being fueled by fraud? Increasing amounts of recent reports on social media and the eBay community regarding
hijacked/compromised eBay accounts being used for fraudulent sales but hardly anyone is covering it.

I've been dealing with a triangulation fraud situation that is vast and wide ranging. Over 50 most likely hacked eBay accounts identified so far being used in the fraud to the tune of over $50k in sales in a little over a month and I guarantee we aren't the only company they've hit.  

by: toolguy

@unsuck

"Can you not even be bothered to at least have the courtesy to post in a relevant blog post (even if you somehow insist on making it all about yourself, as you are wont to do?)"

I can honestly say that David & Ina don't mind or they would say something to me. (I'll leave it at that)

by: toolguy

@theivesbay

"Amazon was getting a major bulk of the "covid" sales, not eBay." ~ I agree 100%

When I said: "Price gouging was a very small amount of the sales" I was talking about EBAY!

by: Marie

@acc756

I have not seen any current threads on Ebay regarding an uptick of any kind with hacked accounts.  I've seen a few posts of members that have previously had this issue on the threads recently, but not new ones.  Certainly I could have missed something.

Where are you seeing this?  Clearly This is something we all must watch out for and stay aware of.  I hope you will share more information.

by: Silver Ice King

@Marie

Since Ebay does not show what prices were accepted through Best Offer and since GMV is also NOT an audited number, how much do you want to bet that Ebay calculates the GMV based on the Sellers  listed price and not on what it finally sold for?  That has been mentioned many times through out the years on the boards, especially since Ebay seems to crack down on 3 party programs which used to show the actual sold price.  Ebay should have no concern over displaying the final selling price unless it is being used for some other purpose like calculating the GMV each quarter.  Since this number is not audited Ebay can truthfully say any number they want to each quarter and personally I believe that is exactly what they do.  There is no way to prove it either way since Ebay is never going to respond to any questions about that data, but given Ebays history of playing fast and loose with everything else, I highly doubt that they don't do the same with the GMV and how it is calculated.

by: acc756

@Marie

See if this works.

My post about the triangulation fraud which we believe is using compromised accounts.
https://ebay.to/2MLC9TL

Three posts from the last couple of days reporting accounts being hacked and used to sell items, including 2 that say their accounts were signed up to store subscriptions without their knowledge.

https://ebay.to/2Y92H6i

https://ebay.to/2zZwl
mO

https://ebay.to/2BvXoGu

Also several reports on Twitter

by: thievesBay

@toolguy Wrong again. Amazon effectively banned listings and sales of "covid" items after a time. eBay did nothing. At the start, items sold by Amazon rose in price because of their automatic pricing model. 3rd party sellers were raising prices and Amazon's went up automatically with it. That was the problem there. But they stopped it. eBay does not work that way at all. Stop comparing eBay and Amazon, it just doesn't look very smart.  

by: toolguy

@thievesBay

I'm not comparing eBay to Amazon! YOU ARE!

Amazon is 30 times larger then eBay

Amazon sells way more then eBay does

But the TOPIC here is EBAY! :-)

I sell on eBay (not amazon)

I buy on eBay (not amazon)

I've owned eBay stock (I have never owned amazon stock)

I have friends that work for both companies

PS: I SOLD IT ON EBAY

by: Marie

@Silver Ice King

That very well could be.  I doubt it, but it certainly is possible.

As to the displaying BO on the listings. Several years back it was sellers that fought hard to get Ebay not to display these numbers as they felt it unduly influence any additional BOs they would get.

@acc756

Yes, Retail arbitrage is absolutely an issue.  I think I misunderstood your other post.  I will spend some time reading through the information you provided tomorrow and thank you for that info.

Yes, there are so many scams out there and sometimes sellers fall for them and end up with their account getting taken over by some unsavory characters to say the least.  Thieves can be very clever to be sure.

Again, thanks for the info.  I will read and learn.

by: unsuck

''the way that Ebay calculates [GMV]  would be the same way similar sites would calculate this number as well.  It isn't ''Ebay's definition'' it is simply the definition.''-Marie

No - that's the point I am making. I know you are a stickler for details and I am informing you that 1/eBay calls GMV ''Gross Merchandise Volume'' and 2/ EBAY's GMV calculation may be *similar* (roughly gross sales, or total goods and services transacted on a marketplace), but precisely how it is calculated is not 'the same' as other marketplace platforms.

Again, EBAY's GMV calculation is an opaque metric that eBay has every incentive to attempt to bolster, as (IMO) it's arguably more a marketing metric than a true financial one.

''Blocking or removing listings isn't the same thing as sales.  Just because a listing got removed does not mean there was a sale associated with that listing.  So I don't follow your logic''

True, I didn't reiterate that many removed listings eBay cancelled were cancelled *after* consumer-buyers ordered and paid for. More info in a previous post here 👉https://bit.ly/2zcvBu6. EBAY should clarify and disclose that those cancellations for prohibited items and 'price gauging' were not accretive to GMV (but I suspect they are).

What % of those purported 15 million obviously I have no idea, but based on the volume of complaints from angry buyers awaiting refunds complaining on social media, a significant number.

~~~~

Incidentally, this is still taking place (orders, then cancellations) with the apparent recent spike in compromised eBay accounts (like the ones acc756 reported to eBay and the authorities).

EBAY stated there was no data breach, but it appears fraudsters may have figured out how to compromise older/inactive buyer accounts in otherwise good standing in order to conduct triangulation fraud (as in acc756's examples).

by: Marie

@unsuck

You know very well that it doesn't mean that Ebay has been hacked and is more likely to be that the seller's accidentally answered and email or did something else that gave the fraudsters access to their password to their account.

Even though it is well publicized and spoke of often, it still amazes me how many people still fall for those emails that end up getting some of their information that enables the thieves to thrive.  Or they don't have their device protected well enough from those that may hack them personally and get their data so they can access their Ebay accounts or more.

by: thievesBay

eBay GMV:

Includes a sale that actually went without a problem.
Includes the full sale amount even if eBay subsidizes a promotion.
Includes all shipping paid by sellers, whether "free shipping", calculated, or flat.
Includes cancelled orders. It was a "sale".
Includes returns. It was a "sale".
Includes disputes with buyers where they get refunded. It was a "sale".
Includes disputes with buyers where sellers get scammed and don't get their money back. It was a "sale".

Anything I'm missing? You can see how eBay's fake GMV numbers add up quickly.

by: thievesBay

1 more. eBay GMV:

Includes auctions won that go unpaid. It was a ''sale''.

Slipped my mind, since eBay is really no longer an ''auction'' site.

by: Opalie

Have to agree. They pad their numbers with anything that "sold" regardless of whether it was cancelled, went unpaid, was returned, turned out to be a scam seller.
A friend of mine had her account hacked (recently btw Marie) and woke up to 44 fraudulent sales on one of her accounts. I'm sure those "sales" were added into ebay's GMV.

by: acc756

@Marie

Neither I nor UnsuckeBay said that eBay (the site) has been hacked.  What we have said is that there has been an increase in eBay user accounts being compromised and used for fraudulent activity on the site (both buying and selling).

That being said, between the data I have collected while dealing with that fraud situation and the reports UnsuckeBay has been highlighting on social media, I feel confident in stating that there is enough to support the likelihood there is something going on that is much more sophisticated and wide reaching than your typical email phishing scam.  Recent reports of eBay's port scanning activities may also support this idea.

More to the point of this particular blog post is that fraud is one of several things that can lead to inflated GMV, as UnsuckeBay and thievesBay explained, so if a period of increased reported GMV coincides with a period of increased reported fraud activity, it may be worth looking into deeper.

by: toolguy

Why would it matter how eBay figures GMV?

eBay's GMV has nothing to do with if a buyer can see my AN470 rivet sets or not, and it has even littler affect if the buyer actually buys it.

The sky isn't falling and eBay isn't going out of business. . . . . .

by: acc756

@Opalie - I'm sorry to hear your friend has been caught up in this.  I also have a personal friend whose account was hacked very recently.  She has been a semi-regular buyer on eBay for almost 20 years on that account, but never a seller.  Her account was changed to a seller account and they posted two false listings.  I hope your friend is getting more help from eBay customer support than mine is.

by: Marie

@Opalie
"They pad their numbers with anything that "sold" regardless of whether it was cancelled, went unpaid, was returned, turned out to be a scam seller."  That isn't "padding", that is what GMV is.  It is the sales before ANY adjustments.  I do understand why some would want to see the number after adjustments.  I too think that would be a more valuable number to look at but that isn't what GMV is used for.  

by: justchangecarriers

hmmm...stimulus checks and people sitting at home....who could have thought? Just setting up for a dissapointing end of year

by: ebayout

Since eBay's GMV composites are meaningless without a detailed breakdown,
that means any YTY comparison of GMV is also meaningless.
It's like a 180 lb, individual putting on 30 lbs of fat and crowing about it.