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Tue Nov 22 2016 16:35:03

eBay Cross Border Trade Can Be Perilous

By: Ina Steiner

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Given eBay's priority on cross-border trade, we found a situation described on the eBay boards perplexing. We sent an email to eBay spokesperson Ryan Moore on Monday morning:

Subject: eBay buyer unable to file MBG over INR with NARU seller

Hi Ryan,
This thread describes a problem with a cross-border transaction: (link)

The buyer, located in Greece and logged in as a guest, purchased an item on eBay.com from a Hong Kong seller.

The buyer never received the item, eBay suspended the seller and removed the listing.

The buyer is unable to file a Money Back Guarantee, how can they do so?

There are a lot of factors that are unique to this situation: both parties were international users on eBay.com; the buyer had purchased as a guest rather than logging in with their eBay User ID; eBay suspended the seller after the purchase.

There's also some mystery about how payment was made - it appears that while PayPal no longer operates in Greece, eBay.com processed the Greek buyer's payment.

We haven't heard back from eBay. Given the strength of the eBay Money Back Guarantee for buyers, we wonder what went wrong here, and if it sends a message to international shoppers about the safety of purchasing from eBay.com.




Comments (16) | Permalink

Readers Comments

eBay Cross Border Trade Can Be Perilous   eBay Cross Border Trade Can Be Perilous

by: FeelingFroggy This user has validated their user name.

Tue Nov 22 17:01:47 2016

You buy from China at your own peril. You will lose no matter what you do. Ebay protects the Chinese better than there own CEO's and paypal, well thats a different case.

eBay Cross Border Trade Can Be Perilous   eBay Cross Border Trade Can Be Perilous

This user has validated their user name. by: Marie

Tue Nov 22 17:34:06 2016

Ebay's not protecting the seller!    It appears it was the perfect storm for this particular buyer.  Several things fell together to create this problem.

If Ebay processed the payment, then the buyer used a CC.  PP still processes it, but you don't see it on your PP account.  My best advice to this buyer would be to contact their CCC and file a dispute.

Hopefully Ebay will plug up what appears to be a loophole in the system so that others buyers are affected.

eBay Cross Border Trade Can Be Perilous   eBay Cross Border Trade Can Be Perilous

by: pace306 This user has validated their user name.

Tue Nov 22 18:13:51 2016

Marie,

Wouldnt Paypal also be able to see the transaction and help her?

Just because a listing is/was removed and the seller NARU ... the info is STILL there.

Its like when an item is pulled for VERO issues - the listings are there just no longer valid - Paypal (even though they swear on a stack of bibles a mile high) can see the entire process as eBay and Paypal are REALLY the same company.

Paypal also fancies itself as a "credit card company" (even though they arent - and have enough "power" to see any charge they run.

WHen forced with the threat of a chargeback (that costs them AT LEAST $250) they will "magically" have all the needed info.

eBay Cross Border Trade Can Be Perilous   eBay Cross Border Trade Can Be Perilous

This user has validated their user name. by: Marie

Tue Nov 22 18:33:10 2016

@pace

That is a good question.  One would think so, but the buyer can't see it and probably doesn't even know to call them.

IDK about your VERO'd listings, but mine I can not see or should I say I've never figured out how to see them.  

You know that Ebay and PP are not the same company anymore.  I know it gets said a lot, but there are  laws and accounting rules that they have to follow.  They are two separate companies but they do have a binding contract with each other for a few more years in regards to payment processing.

Calling Ebay or maybe PP to find out how they processed the payment should work.  There may be something on the Email receipt that Ebay sends out that gives further hints on how or what to do in case of an issue.  

eBay Cross Border Trade Can Be Perilous   eBay Cross Border Trade Can Be Perilous

by: The Not So New Guy This user has validated their user name.

Wed Nov 23 00:05:25 2016

First eBay doesn't always protect Chinese sellers. I buy from China many times, and have had transactions where they never shipped. My money has been promptly refunded upon filing a complaint.

Second, I have to wonder why the buyer doesn't just call their CC company and initiate a chargeback.

eBay Cross Border Trade Can Be Perilous   eBay Cross Border Trade Can Be Perilous

by: The Not So New Guy This user has validated their user name.

Wed Nov 23 00:07:51 2016

Thirdly, I've also never been able to find a way to see a removed listing.

eBay Cross Border Trade Can Be Perilous   eBay Cross Border Trade Can Be Perilous

by: pace306 This user has validated their user name.

Wed Nov 23 08:42:00 2016

Buyers/Sellers cant see the removed listing but eBay and Paypal CS can.

Ive called them when I had VERO issues and they can look at it and see it (how else can they discuss it with you) but not reactivate it. They also cant edit it (to correct the "error".

My point though was that a listing thats removed or even a seller thats NARU - the data is still there if need be - its not "gone forever like a Clinton email"

eBay Cross Border Trade Can Be Perilous   eBay Cross Border Trade Can Be Perilous

by: Tiffee Jasso This user has validated their user name.

Wed Nov 23 14:50:03 2016

Whether a guest or member Ebay claims Buyer Protection. They need to refund the buyer his money under their guarantee policy. Also Ebay need to make Asian sellers and their goods come up to the standards they set for US, Great Britain, Canada and Australian sellers or post buyer warnings in the ad that the transaction is not protected and buyer buys at their own risk.  

eBay Cross Border Trade Can Be Perilous   eBay Cross Border Trade Can Be Perilous

This user has validated their user name. by: Ming the Merciless

Wed Nov 23 15:04:56 2016

Greed is responsible for this problem. PayPal doesn't want to lose out so they allow buyers to use PayPal without setting up an account.

Ditto for ebafia so they allow "Guests."

A few months ago, I had a customer who bought and item and, as is the case with many coddled ebafia buyers, returned the item as buyer's remorse. She'd paid with PreyPal.

This customer wouldn't use the ebafia return procedure. When I received her return, I refunded her payment only to discover she'd never set up an account. So I emailed her TWICE and messaged her through ebafia messaging and told I was trying to refund her payment and to please contact me.

PayPal will not refund to non registered buyers. Never received any response from the buyer.

It;' clear to me where the responsibility lies, and it's not with sellers under these circumstances.

eBay Cross Border Trade Can Be Perilous   eBay Cross Border Trade Can Be Perilous

This user has validated their user name. by: Marie

Wed Nov 23 15:34:56 2016

@tiffee Jasso

I agree with you, but that isn't the problem outlined in the article.

@ming

I don't think "greed" has anything to do with it.  When Ebay closes a listing for any reason, they refund the seller listing fees.  If they cancel the transaction between a buyer and seller, the seller is refunded their FVFs.  So I'm not sure where they could get greedy about anything.

I see nothing in the article that would lead one to believe that the buyer has done something wrong or is trying to return something for "buyer's remorse".  In fact they aren't trying to return anything, as they haven't received the package.

Your situation was completely different from the one in this article.  

eBay Cross Border Trade Can Be Perilous   eBay Cross Border Trade Can Be Perilous

by: 27tcle This user has validated their user name.

Wed Nov 23 18:03:03 2016

A classic case of Do Your Own Due Diligence.  

eBay Cross Border Trade Can Be Perilous   eBay Cross Border Trade Can Be Perilous

by: quirkyantiques This user has validated their user name.

Wed Nov 23 18:55:21 2016

I'm not sure why the buyer can't just put in a credit card chargeback?

eBay Cross Border Trade Can Be Perilous   eBay Cross Border Trade Can Be Perilous

by: lindosa This user has validated their user name.

Thu Nov 24 00:54:08 2016

"There's also some mystery about how payment was made - it appears that while PayPal no longer operates in Greece, eBay.com processed the Greek buyer's payment."
Not true!
I am located in Greece and Paypal still operates just fine!

eBay Cross Border Trade Can Be Perilous   eBay Cross Border Trade Can Be Perilous

This user has validated their user name. by: Ming the Merciless

Thu Nov 24 15:29:13 2016

@ Marie

I wasn't equating what happened to me to the situation described in Ina's post.

The FACT is, however, that PayPal shouldn't allow buyers who don't have registered accounts to use their service for more than one reason -- the buyer described here and the buyer I described in my situation.

I couldn't refund my buyer though I tried several times. The Greek buyer couldn't have received a refund even if the seller had sent him one because refunds can't be sent by non PayPal account holders according to what PayPal CS told me.

Pul-lease, Marie.
 

eBay Cross Border Trade Can Be Perilous   eBay Cross Border Trade Can Be Perilous

This user has validated their user name. by: Rexford

Thu Nov 24 18:09:38 2016

Marie, many (I mean VERY many) sellers here assume the worst in eBay and PayPal mainly due to their policies that do not seem very seller friendly, and the seller is never (or very rarely) the winner in these "gone south" transactions.

You on the other hand seem to always (most always) think that this is not the case, that this is not not purposeful by these two companies.

It doesn't make you necessarily right (or wrong) and it doesn't make those complaining necessarily wrong (or right).  It is just a difference of how you see things and how they see things.  

eBay Cross Border Trade Can Be Perilous   eBay Cross Border Trade Can Be Perilous

This user has validated their user name. by: Marie

Fri Nov 25 02:50:35 2016

@rexford

"...and the seller is never (or very rarely) the winner in these "gone south" transactions."  I don't necessarily disagree with you, however people that win their cases don't usually write in to tell Ina that something good happened or start a thread on Ebay.  It sometimes happens, but certainly not very often.  And on the few I've seen, they get very little participation / posters.

I'm not blind to the problems of Ebay and I've posted many times about problems.

What tends to happen is that when I explain how a certain policy or rule works on Ebay, some posters take that as me supporting what Ebay may have done or supporting the policy or rule.  It doesn't matter if I say in the post that I'm only explaining how it works on Ebay.  That statement usually gets overlooked.

As it did on this blog apparently.  My original post was not blaming anyone in particular nor was it in support of Ebay.  

I said "Ebay's not protecting the seller!"  That is a FACT since the seller was NARU'd.  It that is protecting the seller, I'm not sure how kicking them off Ebay accomplishes that.

I further stated"It appears it was the perfect storm for this particular buyer.  Several things fell together to create this problem."  That is certainly my take on what was described.  It certainly could be wrong, but that is my opinion.

Then I said "If Ebay processed the payment, then the buyer used a CC.  PP still processes it, but you don't see it on your PP account.  My best advice to this buyer would be to contact their CCC and file a dispute."  This is another FACT, not an opinion.

In closing I said "Hopefully Ebay will plug up what appears to be a loophole in the system so that others buyers are affected."  Certainly that is my opinion.  No doubt of that.

I'm not trying to be right.  I was describing how it works on Ebay.  Some posters do know this stuff and others don't.  Sometimes others read more into what I post than what I actually said.  



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