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Mon June 4 2012 13:18:32

Would You Accept eBay Germany's New Payment Collection Model?

By: Julia Wilkinson

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On June 12, eBay in Germany (ebay.de) will switch to a new payment processing model in which it collects payments on behalf of the buyer and only pays the seller after the seller marks the item shipped. [Note: this has been updated from the earlier version of this blog, which stated the seller was paid when the buyer receives the item]. The new model is explained on the eBay Germany site in a diagram. Ina Steiner also wrote about the change in a March 2012 blog post, eBay Moves toward Amazon Model of Payment Processing.

Coming with the change, eBay had said the new administration cost of the payment processing would need “significant extra investment," according to an eBay spokesperson, and that would be financed  in part by raising by 2% the sales commission payable by professional sellers (not private sellers) to eBay on transactions, according to a report by the AIM Group.

The impending change has led to much seller fretting and speculation on the German community boards. Comments in a thread there, New eBay payment system is not acceptable!, include:

- "eBay was once beautiful. But that was before the changes. Now it is in my opinion... worth nothing. As someone has probably sniffed too much money and now has to change the payment terms that the customer can be even more ripped off and eBay has less work."

- "I will sell nothing in any case, if I can not determine the method of payment...Above all, I do not want ever to [wait for] my money. This time through interest-free loans to be granted by a simple modification [of the] Conditions."

Another seller worried about how unscrupulous buyers might take advantage of the new system:

- "As a seller you can hardly [fight] against unwanted buyers...The locking functions are still here on eBay to describe at best as rudimentary, and [all] an unscrupulous buyer needs is ultimately only a new account to register and can then shop to your heart's content here..."

[Note: some adjustments have been made in brackets and excerpts edited to facilitate a smoother German-to-English translation].

One Swiss seller theorized eBay was making the change in order to get a cut of the payments which they've been missing out on in Europe.

The way eBay.de payments are done currently is very different from eBay US and does not involve eBay getting its usual PayPal cut, explained the seller. "In Europe ...the most common payment method in the daily life is to pay with bank wire, which does not cost anything (nor on payer, nor on receiver side), beside some usually smaller fees to run that bank account. This is used also for eBay transactions." There is also a "SEPA" payment method. The seller theorized eBay.de could not force "PayPal only" payments as in the US, because of law/trade rules or potential complaints by the European banking system.

What would you think of this new payment collection system if it came to eBay in the U.S.? Could there be any positive benefit to it, or do you think it would just expose you to more problem buyers and higher fees? Or something else? Post a comment here!




Comments (24) | Permalink

Readers Comments

Would You Accept eBay Germany's New Payment Collection Model?   Would You Accept eBay Germany's New Payment Collection Model?

by: pace306 This user has validated their user name.

Mon Jun 4 14:33:44 2012

Noah Hershman started this whole thing - as well as every other ''Amazonlike'' similarity. Blame him for all the negatives that keep comming out of eBay.

Keep in mind that he himself said (as echod from JD's speech at CES) that eBay doesnt want to be thought of as an auction site anymore. They will do auctions but want to be AMAZON.

This payment method is how this is going to be accomplished, as well as the ''Authorized Dealer'' tag - VERO will remove all the NON authorized sellers with their incorrect MC019 Unauthorized violation. OF course that violation is in direct contradiction with Laham (specifically Belltronics vs Midwest) but why bother eBay with actual laws - laws are only for mere mortals, not eBay!

The last issue of TWICE had a full page advert from eBay BEGGING electronics manufactorers to let thier dealers sell on eBay - to be protected by .... the Authorized tag.

Theres are other reasons that eBay wants this ...

1) Takes the pressure off Paypal. Sooner or later - either the current case or in another one that someone WILL file - eBay will loose based on its ''tying'' agreement and the forced use of Paypal - this will help solve that issue, since payments will be made directly to eBay.

2) it will cut down the losses on Paypals having to dip into thier profits when doing refunds (INR etc). Smart people empty thier Paypal accounts nightly - and that makes Paypal have to get funds ...usually from a CC or bank where they get charged a fee.

3) eBay will have ultimate control over your refunds - if they deem a customer worthy (99.9% of the time) then they will just deduct it from you instantly.

Its all about controlling you and how you sell. Of course Paltinums and manufactorers will be exempt (as will chinese megasellers).

Ebayazon ?

Would You Accept eBay Germany's New Payment Collection Model?   Would You Accept eBay Germany's New Payment Collection Model?

This user has validated their user name. by: Ming the Merciless

Mon Jun 4 14:44:15 2012

Ebay has created such a online shopping crime wave with its fraud encouraging and abetting policies that adoption of this policy would exponentially increase the already rampant fraud rate.

The rise in INR and SNAD complaints would skyrocket, and merchants would be losing both item and payment while paying ebay more to scam us.

The problem with trying to make ebay like Amazon is that these ebfia cowards only want it to work one way. Get rid of most of the Buyer Protection Policy and I'll think about the German model.

Until then, Hershman, you've got another class action lawsuit waiting in the wings.

One of my great hopes is that some lawyer somewhere will sue these b@st@rds in their personal and professional capacities for the crimes they facilitate.

Would You Accept eBay Germany's New Payment Collection Model?   Would You Accept eBay Germany's New Payment Collection Model?

This user has validated their user name. by: Ric

Mon Jun 4 14:56:28 2012

Sorry, this format would not be acceptable to me as I view it as nothing more than a maneuver by eBay to hold seller payments and earn interest on funds which are not theirs.

Between listing fees, Final Value fees on sold items, final value fees on shipping costs, PayPal fees, and commissions earned when shipping labels are processed through eBay/PayPal, eBay as a company already takes more than they are entitled to on every transaction.

Holding seller payments to earn interest while the payment floats is simply a deal breaker. If eBay needs more revenue, then they should take steps to assure more items sell by eliminating the many roadblocks they have constructed that inhibit buyers from completing purchases such as retiring Best Match as the default search method.

Even with delivery confirmation numbers or tracking numbers, scanning on delivery is less than 100%, especially with USPS where we find up to 10% of items shipped with DC numbers end up not being scanned on delivery. As such, relying on a carrier to scan on delivery before funds are released is simply not an acceptable business model.

Additionally, given eBay's propensity for system glitches, it is easy to envision convenient glitches that delay the transfers of funds after deliveries have been confirmed. As a seller, if it became necessary to contact PayPal repeatedly for release of payments for delivered items, the amount of wasted time incurred would be completely unacceptable.

eBay's Buyer Protection (read Seller Extortion Plan) is such that unscrupulous buyers have increased on eBay to an almost unbearable degree. Bad enough eBay has created an environment that enables electronic shoplifting to an unacceptable degree.

If/when PayPal announces a change to this payment model in the United States, we will close our store and end our eBay listings. With no eBay business, we would review the need to continue accepting PayPal on other web sites we list on.

Would You Accept eBay Germany's New Payment Collection Model?   Would You Accept eBay Germany's New Payment Collection Model?

by: gutspiller This user has validated their user name.

Mon Jun 4 18:50:01 2012

I do not sell on Ebay Germany, but I am one of the European sellers. It is a fact that a normal bank transfer is the preferred payment method. Ebay does everything in its power to make buyers pay with PayPal. On Ebays homepage alone 3 big adds for PayPal. It goes as far that when a customer looks at my listing bank transfer is no longer showing. Buyers have to click before they see that I accept a bank transfer.

No way I'm gonna ever accept the Ebay Germany model. Next to the UK, Ebay Germany is one of the biggest Ebaysites from Europe. With this new Payment Collection Model I predict Ebay Germany will go downhill. And fast, really fast.

From no PayPalfees a few years ago, I now pay about € 2000 PayPalfees a year. That are a lot of sales to cover for those fees. All the promises Ebay makes that offering PayPal will lead to more international sales and higher prices are just bullshit. It are extra fees. Nothing more, nothing less.

On another part of Auctionbytes there's a discussion about Ebay going to a free listing model. This is already a daily reality in a few countries. Privat sellers can list an unlimited number of auctions completely free but they do pay a higher selling fee than before. This is destroying the whole site. It completely cluttered, visibility becomes 0. And no one is selling.

A lot more PayPal fees and less sales due to lower visibility which causes sellers to slash prices hoping to sell more. At the end you don't sell more and you make less profit per sale. Compared to last year my Ebay sales are considerably up but at the end I have a lower profit due to higher fees and lower profit margin per sale. Some of the rare items I sell have considerably increased in price. But that's only 5% of my items. The other 95% have decreased in price and keep decreasing while I should increase prices to cover for the increase in fees. That some items lose their value that's just normal. But 95%??? I completely blame Ebay for it with the biggest thanks to Best Match and constant cluttering with the site.


I see absolutely no future in Ebay on the long term. The site has already lost a lot of its attraction and the number of visitors keeps going down. This is confirmed by a national company that gathers the visitors stats in my country.

I don't know a single seller that's happy with the way things are going. First it were the sellers that were leaving, and now the buyers are also leaving.

Until a year or 2 ago Ebay was the only place where I would sell. They introduced the one sided feedback system, dsr, compulsory PayPal,... So decided it was time to move on. In the meantime as a lot of other Ebay sellers have done, I've launched my own site and I also list on other (completely free) sites. I don't even know if I would cope without Ebay, but the day they introduce this new Payment Collection Model I will just leave Ebay and without a doubt a lot of other sellers will do the same.

Would You Accept eBay Germany's New Payment Collection Model?   Would You Accept eBay Germany's New Payment Collection Model?

by: ejholden This user has validated their user name.

Mon Jun 4 18:50:12 2012

As somebody who buys on eBay regularly, I certainly hope that eBay institutes this policy on a global basis.
Then all the reputable sellers might finally migrate to another site with fair trading policies and the thieves, ratbags & con merchants can have eBay all to thenselves ......

Would You Accept eBay Germany's New Payment Collection Model?   Would You Accept eBay Germany's New Payment Collection Model?

This user has validated their user name. by: Basset

Mon Jun 4 21:32:24 2012

Nein, Nicht!!!
What are they going to do next, withold taxes for us?  

Would You Accept eBay Germany's New Payment Collection Model?   Would You Accept eBay Germany's New Payment Collection Model?

This user has validated their user name. by: Bill

Tue Jun 5 01:39:28 2012

If this is ever applied to eBay in this country that will be the last straw for our business on that platform.
We already have been cutting down on what we sell there but if this is instituted we will be gone.

Bill  

Would You Accept eBay Germany's New Payment Collection Model?   Would You Accept eBay Germany's New Payment Collection Model?

by: Digmen1 This user has validated their user name.
Web Site

Tue Jun 5 04:35:35 2012

Here in New Zealand our dominant site - Trademe allows payments only by direct banking to the seller from the buyer.

But they have no need for buyer protection as Tradme follow up on bad sellers.

And there is two way feedback.

Sort of like ebay was years ago.

Would You Accept eBay Germany's New Payment Collection Model?   Would You Accept eBay Germany's New Payment Collection Model?

This user has validated their user name. by: Ed Gadfly

Tue Jun 5 06:59:23 2012

eBa'al is already holding money and taking shipping fees they have no right to.

How much can eBa'al bleed their sellers?

For everything they can take.

Now go check your listings! Time to swim with the sharks. Who will win?

Would You Accept eBay Germany's New Payment Collection Model?   Would You Accept eBay Germany's New Payment Collection Model?

by: Beth This user has validated their user name.

Tue Jun 5 08:06:38 2012

Nope..guess I'll go block Germany so I can't get sucked into that vortex by mistake.

Would You Accept eBay Germany's New Payment Collection Model?   Would You Accept eBay Germany's New Payment Collection Model?

by: unknown This user has validated their user name.

Tue Jun 5 08:11:16 2012

Noah Hershman just joined ebayzon last year. The amazonification is courtesy of Donahue and started long before Hershman showed up.

I really used to like ebay and was excited about buying and selling; it was interesting, fun and a pleasure.

Times sure have changed.

Would You Accept eBay Germany's New Payment Collection Model?   Would You Accept eBay Germany's New Payment Collection Model?

by: oehi This user has validated their user name.

Tue Jun 5 10:52:58 2012

Interesting updates on the issue. Ebay postpones the hole change to 2013, due to complaints of the german financial services authorithy (BaFin).
http://pages.ebay.de/help/update_payment-process_backgroun
d.html

So
far rumors could be read that the introduction of the new payment system would have been delayed.
Ebay.de nevertheless still insisted, up to yesterday June 4, 2012, all commercial sellers had do agree to the new TOS up to June 12, 2012. If they did not, ebay had declared they would not have been able to sell anymore after that date. Ebays also vaguely pointed out, the new payment system itself would be introduced ''later in the summer'', gradually, up to August/September.

This article gives some insight:
http://www.wiwo.de/unternehmen/dienstleister/ebay-kein-fes
ter-termin-fuer-neues-bezahlsystem/6700898.html
The
article writes ''... as it seems it is questionable that all commercial sellers will agree to the new TOS''. A german lawyer consulting more than 1000 commercial sellers has received many complaints and thinks, the new payments system ''had been done in a unprofessional way in juristic view, much is not conform with german law''.

But there were also rumors on the technical side, the system not being ready or not to be able to take the load. One could read in german ebay user forums about problems in the release of the funds to the sellers in the pilot phase, where new sellers were forced to use the new system.

Now June 5, 2012 it's all postponed. Commercial sellers all of a sudden are not required anymore to accept the new TOS (this process is announced since months, in Feb./March 2012). This just one week before the so far announced deadline.
http://pages.ebay.de/help/update_payment-process_backgrou
nd.html
(german)
The announcement vaguely says ''ebay figures the new payment systemt will be introduced in 2013'', due to complaints of the german financial services authorithy (BaFin), this system would need a new licence.

One must speculate: was this all just a test to see how many commercial sellers would agree to the new TOS? Did they knew they could not introduce the new payment system all along? Or was this hole thing planned by amateurs and dilettantes? IMO ebay.de gave an impression of f00ls in this matter.

Would You Accept eBay Germany's New Payment Collection Model?   Would You Accept eBay Germany's New Payment Collection Model?

by: pace306 This user has validated their user name.

Tue Jun 5 19:39:09 2012

Or was this hole thing planned by amateurs and dilettantes?

No, eBay doesnt believe anyone has any rights besides themselves. They also dont believe that laws apply to them.

Here in the US they are only ''Money Transmitters'' yet take way more license to do quasi illegal things (aka money holds) then allowed. They arent fools - they dont care. Thier view is come sue them! In CA they have politicians and judges in thier pockets - they could care less what happens.

They do it with VERO as well. Most supposed VERO infractions are untrue - aka MC0999 Unathorized (no such law - you dont need permission from anyone to sell any legally obtained item) and MC0999 Illegal Importation into the EU (that law (if you read it) bars grey market items if the company importing them is in the EU - its NOT for companies outside the EU selling INTO the EU)(there are however certain licensing issues that may come up however).

In any case - its eBay doing what it does best ... screw up, then pretend it ''didnt really mean to do it to begin with''.

As for Mr Hershman ... yes it started before him - but he was the reason eBay went ahead with all these changes ''full bore''. He was courted for MONTHS before he actually arrived. These changes started in '09 when eBay decided they needed an image makeover - no more (in thier words) ''Sh_ _ ty Auctions''.  

Would You Accept eBay Germany's New Payment Collection Model?   Would You Accept eBay Germany's New Payment Collection Model?

This user has validated their user name. by: thehosst

Wed Jun 6 00:36:29 2012

Is this not done with the rolling reserve scam? how why and when will a seller be able to finance this new abuse, plus the commissions, the payment fees, the new google scam shopping and the mega huge rolling reserve, what do they think they are doing???? Where is the occupy wall street people, do they really want them outside their HQ? Really, from very bad to super worse, ebay, google, amazon all a bunch of abusive monopolies  

Would You Accept eBay Germany's New Payment Collection Model?   Would You Accept eBay Germany's New Payment Collection Model?

by: blaumann This user has validated their user name.

Wed Jun 6 00:45:53 2012

NO

Would You Accept eBay Germany's New Payment Collection Model?   Would You Accept eBay Germany's New Payment Collection Model?

by: biddude This user has validated their user name.

Wed Jun 6 01:58:20 2012

I am just somebody that sells things on a smaller scale Usually items that are worth in the hundreds of dollars but just a few here and there But I agree a  lot with what RIC said Pretty much in a nut shell I feel like I'm getting the royal ream job every time I sell something on eBay Between all of the fees and the worrying about customers A lot of times I need access to the money to make the shipment in the first place This is just putting more stress on already stressed out sellers I had completely stopped selling on eBay for a long time but kinda got lured in by the Hey you can sell 50 items for free a month Yeah but why do you think that they let you list for free only auction style? Because they get the most money for auction style final value fees You can check it here http://www.rolbe.com/ebay.htm

Would You Accept eBay Germany's New Payment Collection Model?   Would You Accept eBay Germany's New Payment Collection Model?

by: RAOTFLMAO This user has validated their user name.

Wed Jun 6 08:18:49 2012

I want my money when the item I own is sold...sort of an old fashioned concept...if that is done here I will continue to list items with a large mark up.  I already list my 50 free items and they are marked up about 20 to 25% higher than other venues I sell on....my photos will point to the other sites that the price is lower on....as long as listings are free I will continue to use ebay to drive traffic to my other sites.  

Would You Accept eBay Germany's New Payment Collection Model?   Would You Accept eBay Germany's New Payment Collection Model?

by: Dazzle This user has validated their user name.

Wed Jun 6 08:26:56 2012

No - pretty simple - pick up your toys kiddies and go play in a different sandbox.

Ebay is ridiculous in their demands and if sellers don't push back they just grab more - legal or not.

So many lawsuits pending - just can't wait to see the outcome on some - sure ebay will delay and appeal but surely some will not be in their favor.

German's certainly aren't stupid folks - they'll figure it out.

Would You Accept eBay Germany's New Payment Collection Model?   Would You Accept eBay Germany's New Payment Collection Model?

by: wallflower This user has validated their user name.

Wed Jun 6 08:40:34 2012

The money would be released when marked shipped, not when delivered, as someone said above (Ric?). So this is not dependent on the shipping carrier. Quote from full article "eBay would collect payments on behalf of the buyer and only pay the seller after the seller marks the item shipped."

Would You Accept eBay Germany's New Payment Collection Model?   Would You Accept eBay Germany's New Payment Collection Model?

This user has validated their user name. by: Tula

Wed Jun 6 08:55:41 2012

A question for those familiar with bank transfer payments: Is there some sort of facilitator or intermediary for such payments or do the parties have to  exchange bank account info? The latter seems like a terrible risk, IMHO. Though I can appreciate the concept of true peer-to-peer payments with no middleman taking a cut. That's likely the reason for this new model - so Paypal can take a cut of the money.

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