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Tue Nov 8 2011 10:23:59

How Many Claims Should Marketplace Buyers Be Allowed?

By: Ina Steiner

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Some sellers are abuzz about a change in Amazon's policy about customer claims under its A-to-Z Guarantee. The policy now allows customers up to 50 claims for purchases from third-party sellers on Amazon. According to the policy:

"Buyers are limited to a lifetime maximum of fifty claims for purchases from Amazon Marketplace or Merchant seller on the Amazon.com website. Withdrawn claims do not count towards this maximum. Buyers who pay for Amazon Marketplace or Merchant purchases via the Amazon.com website and buyers who use Amazon Payments for qualified purchases from a third-party website are eligible to receive up to $2,500 of the purchase price, including shipping charges."

As consumers, we all want to be able to file claims if transactions are unsatisfactory. But retailers and online sellers also know that consumers can take advantage of such policies, whether it's buyer's remorse or outright fraud.

In reacting to Amazon's policy in which shoppers can file up to 50 claims, a seller on the boards wrote, "Whoa, seriously? Buyers can get 50 items for free now?!" But one could also argue that Amazon sellers get more sales because consumers feel safe shopping there thanks to the Amazon A-to-Z guarantee.

eBay has its own Buyer Protection policy - it does not appear to have any maximum number of claims that a buyer can file. It's clear from Amazon's policy it is tracking buyer claims. On eBay, it's not clear (we sent an inquiry to find out) - and in addition, eBay buyers can have multiple accounts.

How well do you think Amazon, eBay and other marketplaces perform in protecting buyers and sellers from false claims?

And how many claims should an online marketplace allow customers to file?




Comments (18) | Permalink

Readers Comments

How Many Claims Should Marketplace Buyers Be Allowed?   How Many Claims Should Marketplace Buyers Be Allowed?

by: anyone out there yet

Tue Nov 8 10:33:48 2011

Amazon is Fleecebay's evil sister.

How Many Claims Should Marketplace Buyers Be Allowed?   How Many Claims Should Marketplace Buyers Be Allowed?

by: angryjim

Tue Nov 8 10:45:52 2011

''And how many claims should an online marketplace allow customers to file?''

Wrong question.  Should it not be ''how much buyer fraud should eBay enable?''

How Many Claims Should Marketplace Buyers Be Allowed?   How Many Claims Should Marketplace Buyers Be Allowed?

This user has validated their user name. by: Ric

Tue Nov 8 12:26:09 2011

For buyers, credit card chargebacks, PayPal claims and eBay claims should be recorded as part of the buyers record. All actions should count for a full year, then roll off but remain on file for future reference.

Buyers should be encouraged to work transactional issues out with sellers without resorting to opening a claim or filing a chargeback with their credit card company.

All buying ID's should be linked together to prevent abusive buyers from circumventing policy by using multiple ID's.

Buyers should be held to similar standards eBay holds sellers to with regard to claims or chargebacks filed.

Restrictions against buyers should begin with the third claim in any 12 month period, and stay on the buyers record for a full 12 months just as low DSR scores do for sellers.

After a third claim, the buyer should have buying restrictions put into place.

Restriction could be a dollar limit on spending, or be a transactional count limit. Buying limit/restriction would remain in place until a claim rolls off and count reduces to two.

If a buyer manages to reach a count of five claims in 12 months, the buyer would be suspended until claims drop off and the buyer has only two remaining on their record.

The cycle then begins again after reinstatement if the buyer files a third claim.

If or when the buyer reaches a second plateau of five claims, the buyer account and all linked accounts are permanently restricted.

How Many Claims Should Marketplace Buyers Be Allowed?   How Many Claims Should Marketplace Buyers Be Allowed?

by: High-Volume Az Buyer

Tue Nov 8 13:03:29 2011

As a very high-volume buyer (and previous high-volume seller) on Amazon, I think the buyer claims allowed should be a PERCENTAGE of the purchases the buyer makes from third-party sellers.  The old limit was five claims, and that effectively stopped me from buying almost anything on Amazon from third-party sellers.  Years ago, there were many more ''not as described'' items, but that is still a problem, but now is much less of a problem.  In a year, I might have purchased 200 items from Amazon sellers, to sell elsewhere in a highly-profitable niche.  Many more than five items (of those 200 or so) were significantly ''not as   described'', and many sellers would not ''make it right''. For example, new means new, not that ''I only used it once and the missing box shouldn't matter''.  While I think 50 allowable lifetime claims is ridiculous, I can see how that could easily be exhausted in a few probably rare, yet legitimate, situations.  For the record, the limit WAS five, but that applied to those that could be claimed more or less automatically.  Additional claims could be made, but one had to go through more hoops in order to make them.

How Many Claims Should Marketplace Buyers Be Allowed?   How Many Claims Should Marketplace Buyers Be Allowed?

This user has validated their user name. by: Anonymous Annie

Tue Nov 8 13:20:04 2011

''All buying ID's should be linked together to prevent abusive buyers from circumventing policy by using multiple ID's.''

Agreed. The last time I returned an item at BestBuy, WITH a receipt, they still wanted positive ID before they would complete the transaction.

Out of curiosity, I asked why they needed an ID in addition to the receipt... but I halfway knew the answer anyway.

The woman behind the counter explained honestly and frankly that it was to keep track of habitual refunders.

I imagine that it would also help to discourage shoplifters who steal easily concealed items... then returning the ''gift'' they received and receiving store-credit instead of cash back.

How Many Claims Should Marketplace Buyers Be Allowed?   How Many Claims Should Marketplace Buyers Be Allowed?

by: Charlie W. This user has validated their user name.
Web Site

Tue Nov 8 13:31:04 2011

It's a delicate balancing game trying to find a number that pleases everyone. (Or, to craft a policy that's perfectly down the middle so that nobody is happy.)

From the seller's perspective fifty sounds like a very generous number.

By setting a definite number (even one so high) would it have a chilling effect on buyer's-remorse claims? Would it make people think more carefully before buying? Or after the purchase is completed, would it make people less likely to return an item on whim?

I make about 1 purchase per month from Amazon sellers, and at my current rate of returns/claims, it would take me 100 years to use up the allotted number of 50 claims.

How Many Claims Should Marketplace Buyers Be Allowed?   How Many Claims Should Marketplace Buyers Be Allowed?

by: kevin

Tue Nov 8 16:32:21 2011

I'm just glad they are tracking it....never heard anything of ebay doing it and I'm pretty sure they never take action unless it hits them in the wallet, not the seller.  At least Amazon is letting buyers know they are watching. I've never had an Amazon claim as a buyer or seller, so I guess I'm a little new to that

How Many Claims Should Marketplace Buyers Be Allowed?   How Many Claims Should Marketplace Buyers Be Allowed?

by: JustBuyEbay

Tue Nov 8 18:55:56 2011

Amazon. Instead of doing your own scheming just buy ebay they have all their scams in place. I think it would save you time

How Many Claims Should Marketplace Buyers Be Allowed?   How Many Claims Should Marketplace Buyers Be Allowed?

by: fvh

Tue Nov 8 19:50:52 2011

There WAS a time when eBay and Amazon didn't feel such a dire need protect their buyers from their sellers and visa versa.

I'm a professional and I treat my customers right (over-the-top right) because it's good for business. The feedback system reflected this, before eBay broke it.

Of course, for the buyer, there's always been the safety net of using a credit card and letting the protection from that take over in the event of a serious problem.

Call me an idealist, but whether the number is five, 5,000, or anywhere in between, I find it sad that such in-your-face "buyer protection" is deemed necessary in the first place.

How Many Claims Should Marketplace Buyers Be Allowed?   How Many Claims Should Marketplace Buyers Be Allowed?

by: Fed-up This user has validated their user name.

Tue Nov 8 21:08:19 2011

@fvh :You are so rite! That
''Buyer Protection''
Brings out the Thief in them.

We were with Ebay In the Beginning. When it was a Fun, Family Type Community.
A Great AUCTION Place!
you Remember, Before JD Arrived.

When the Buyer and Sellers worked things out just fine between them.

If all else failed..Ebay was called in and Ebay was FAIR about there decision!

Those days are long gone...JD has made sure, they will NEVER return.

It is so Unfair now, The Buyers Knows in the Beginning.
''That is the Reason MOST of the Dishonest Buyers, Bid's''

They know... From the Start.. They can Bid, Pay, And file a claim, It was Broken, when it arrived. Or It was NOT the color in the Picture..

Buyer's Remorse...And Ebay will side with The buyer....

Most of the time, they get to Keep the Item, and get there Money back. With SHIPPING!

Then, They will leave you Bad Stars, And a Big RED Neg...

A couple of BAD buyers can ruin you..Real Quick..

And there is Nothing a Seller can do, A Seller can NOT even let the Other seller knows,

This is a Bad Buyer

You lose your Ratings, No Matter how many GREAT Feedbacks you have

No matter how long you have been with Ebay, No matter how much you have paid Ebay in fees, ect. Every Month
They will side with a Buyer Every time.

And Ebay will HOLD your Money....(That alone is so many reasons to leave Ebay, Holding your Money because of BAD buyers)



So How Many Claims Do you think Ebay will Allow a buyer to file?

SKY is the LIMIT!! With Ebay.

It is NOT going to cost Ebay anything....It will cost you the Seller...

Ebay does Not care about the Seller......Ebay does not really care about the buyer..

Ebay is a JOKE today...JD done a GREAT job, at Totally Ruining a Great Place.

A ONE of a Kind Place, A fun Place.

Now Ebay is No different than the Other 1000 Market Places Out there Today.

Great Job JD....Bet your Share Holders love you as much as The 1000's Of hard working

Small Time America Sellers you PUT OUT OF BUSINESS!!!

At a time, when They needed Ebay the most. Just to put a Little extra food on the Table, A little extra gas to get to the Doctor's,

JD, you are so UN America...In Our Book, you are Not up to Our Standards, As a Place we would want to do business,

We left Ebay over a YEAR ago, Best thing we ever done.

We will Never go back to Ebay, To Sell or Buy.....

Well , Unless JD is gone...Then we will see.





How Many Claims Should Marketplace Buyers Be Allowed?   How Many Claims Should Marketplace Buyers Be Allowed?

by: fallonthalia
Web Site

Wed Nov 9 00:25:36 2011

I am both a buyer and seller on Amazon Marketplace. I have been selling there since 2003, and have been buying there even longer than that. A good part of my Christmas shopping has been done on the Marketplace in years past.

I have had a couple of bad transactions there. In one case, the DVD I purchased from a seller in Kansas was actually a pirated copy shipped from a South American country. In another case, a CD I purchased had the side of the case badly smashed in shipping--that seller just threw the CD in a thin bag with no protection and called it good. I submitted a claim in both cases. The second seller would not respond to my emails. And, yes, I got my $ back. My point is that not all buyers are bad.

How Many Claims Should Marketplace Buyers Be Allowed?   How Many Claims Should Marketplace Buyers Be Allowed?

by: Rich

Wed Nov 9 01:25:53 2011

From 5 claims allowed up to 50claims allowed???  Wow; what a stupid move by Amazon.  Look for many buyers to begin scamming once word gets out. Can't pay your mortgage this month?  Just win 4 or 5 $200 items on Amazon and you'd be all set after you sell them all on Ebay. As someone else posted; it should be based ona % once a buyer has won 20 or 30 items.  Maybe 5% or 10% with a max of 10 or 15 chargebacks

How Many Claims Should Marketplace Buyers Be Allowed?   How Many Claims Should Marketplace Buyers Be Allowed?

by: Lace
Web Site

Wed Nov 9 01:49:09 2011

Perhaps the focus should be on case resolutions rather than numbers? As more online shoppers enter the market - both eBay and Amazon should beef up their staff to handle fraud investigations and cases between buyer and seller.

How Many Claims Should Marketplace Buyers Be Allowed?   How Many Claims Should Marketplace Buyers Be Allowed?

by: JSGeare
Web Site

Wed Nov 9 09:36:27 2011

For whatever reason, there seems to a rampant denial of fundamental human nature when it comes to placing a limit on anything. The "limit" of 50 claims simply means you can HAVE 50 claims. Sort of like the speed limit - few drive slower, most drive at or over the "limit." So Amazon has effectively told buyers to take 50 claims. There is a much more obviously sensible way to go about this, but I'll wait and see if they eventually figure it out. I doubt it.

How Many Claims Should Marketplace Buyers Be Allowed?   How Many Claims Should Marketplace Buyers Be Allowed?

by: miss_understanding

Wed Nov 9 09:57:00 2011

FYI....Ebay DOES have a cap on the number of claims that can be submitted.  Ebay won't tell you the number.  It's their 'secret'.  If you ask, they won't tell you either.  When you come close to the limit you receive an email stating you are reaching the limit. At that point, they review your account to see what is happening. The number is quite high.  I had submitted about 300 claims, and I received the note when I reached 280.
Here's some back ground:

I was defauded by a seller selling fake sterling silver items with .925 stamps on each piece.  I had bought hundreds of items because I was given assurance by the seller that their items were solid sterling silver and not plated.  When I received the items and tested, they were all fake. I contacted ebay about what was going on, and was requested to open claims for every item.  This would flag the sellers account for review.  Needless to say, the seller is still flooding the market with their cheap fake goods, with hundreds of people being defrauded everyday, and ebay doing nothing to stop it.

How Many Claims Should Marketplace Buyers Be Allowed?   How Many Claims Should Marketplace Buyers Be Allowed?

by: cloud

Wed Nov 9 21:10:19 2011

From my experience you run into far more fraudulent buyers on Amazon then on eBay now. While eBay may not have a written policy stating they are tracking fraudulent buyer activity, experience has shown that they are considering buyers past history when fraudulent claims are being made.

Unfortunately, Amazon is way behind when dealing with this fraudulent activity. I see this as a first tiny baby step in the right direction, which is acknowledging that there is such a thing as a bad buyer.

How Many Claims Should Marketplace Buyers Be Allowed?   How Many Claims Should Marketplace Buyers Be Allowed?

This user has validated their user name. by: elpereles

Wed Nov 9 22:29:52 2011

Interesting move in Amazon. And reading some of the comments it is clear that is a ''double edge'' solution.

I don't sell in Amazon, but I will not be surprise that they began to add fees to their payment system using the excuse that the fees are to add ''better'' support and protection in the sales.

How Many Claims Should Marketplace Buyers Be Allowed?   How Many Claims Should Marketplace Buyers Be Allowed?

by: Plentycosas
Web Site

Thu Nov 10 10:37:13 2011

The difference on Amazon and Ebay for the seller is this.  On Amazon if you do everything right, chance are you will not lose money.  Even when Amazon refunds a customer they will fund the refund. They do this even for chargebacks.  I feel Amazon cares about their sellers and understand that when their sellers make money, Amazon Makes money.  Ebay is just all about the buyer.  Fraud is out of control, traffic is down, and it take 10 times more time to operate on Ebay compared to Amazon. I have sold on both for about 8 years now and Amazon as improved year over year where Ebay has gotten wrost.    



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