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Tue July 20 2010 11:58:33

eBay Updates UA on PayPal Holds, Buyer Protection

By: Ina Steiner

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eBay updated its User Agreement effective September 7th for current users. According to the announcement, there are two key updates:

- Provisions have been added regarding eBay Buyer Protection. If a seller changes his or her reimbursement method for eBay Buyer Protection cases from PayPal to a new one, the new method will only be effective for transactions not yet paid for, and for future transactions. In addition, eBay may correct payment processing errors made in connection with an eBay Buyer Protection Claim. Please refer to the eBay Buyer Protection policy for the full terms.

- Clarification is included about instances where seller funds may be held as pending in their PayPal accounts. eBay has at times requested, and may continue to request, that PayPal hold seller funds to help facilitate smooth transactions. eBay will make such requests based upon factors including, but not limited to, selling history, seller performance, riskiness of the listing category, or the filing of an eBay Buyer Protection claim. PayPal may also hold funds pursuant to their own Funds Availability Policy.

However, eBay also added:

"Sellers agree to allow us to charge the payment method they designate for amounts due buyers."

And a new section called Listing Conditions:          

"By listing an item on eBay's sites, you agree to pay eBay's fees for such, assume full responsibility for the content of the listing and item offered, and accept the following listing conditions: When you list an item on eBay's sites, your listing will be posted on eBay's sites and can be viewed in My eBay.  Your listing may not be immediately searchable by keyword or category for several hours (or up to 24 hours in some circumstances), so eBay can't guarantee exact listing durations.  Where your listing appears in search and browse results may be based on certain factors including listing format, title, bidding activity, end time, keywords, price and shipping cost, feedback, and detailed seller ratings.  You can read more about where your listings appear in search and browse results in eBay's Help Pages."

And in the section about account suspensions, eBay added:

"(for example, and without limitation, policies related to shill bidding, conducting off-eBay transactions, feedback manipulation, circumventing temporary or permanent suspensions or users who we believe are harassing our employees or other users).  Additionally, we may, in appropriate circumstances and at our discretion, suspend or terminate accounts of users who may be repeat infringers of intellectual property rights of third parties."

Here's eBay's announcement, and here is the page from EFF's TOStracker, let us know what you think.




Comments (34) | Permalink

Readers Comments

eBay Updates UA on PayPal Holds, Buyer Protection   eBay Updates UA on PayPal Holds, Buyer Protection

by: Fruity This user has validated their user name.

Tue Jul 20 12:09:27 2010

Ina, this is the 2nd time you've written about user agreements (ebay and paypal) and nothing has come into the email.

eBay Updates UA on PayPal Holds, Buyer Protection   eBay Updates UA on PayPal Holds, Buyer Protection

by: Tighten The Screws

Tue Jul 20 12:19:15 2010

eBay's ugly sister Half.com also has some unannouced changes to harrass sellers : what's with that Beta Cart that just showed up today if a buyer buys from DIFFERENT sellers at the SAME time the buyer gets some sort of discount and the sellers are of course charged more in fees- where does eBay get the nerve to screw sellers to the point that it is now a LOSING money when you list proposition.
When i see some niave person say " well it sold for xxx$ on eBay " I quickly point out : NO IT DID NOT. It's minus FEES, Paypal rules, Shipping, etc etc AND the buyer can then also get the REST of your $ for ANY REASON.
You have to be some sort of a idiot to still do business on eBay!

eBay Updates UA on PayPal Holds, Buyer Protection   eBay Updates UA on PayPal Holds, Buyer Protection

by: Rich

Tue Jul 20 12:31:27 2010

All the buyer protection in the world won't make the buying experience any better; as long as the selling experience continues to worsen. These changes do nothing to improve the selling experience. The solution is not to promote buyer protection.  The solution is for the top 10 to 20 people in the company to take  large pay cuts and/or step dwon so that seller fees can be lowered; which in turn will pass on some savings to buyers and allow buyers to purchase from sellers who aren't miserable or pissed off. Nickel and diming sellers to death and the dsr/feedback focus has ruined the buying experience and leads to only more "not as described" charge backs. Only when the selling experience improves can the buying experience also improve. And that's why the best people to run ebay would be a team of experienced buyers and sellers because they are the ones who understand this incredibly simple concept, which is what Ebay was founded on.

eBay Updates UA on PayPal Holds, Buyer Protection   eBay Updates UA on PayPal Holds, Buyer Protection

by: o.c.d.collectibles This user has validated their user name.
Web Site

Tue Jul 20 13:29:26 2010

LOL! Looks like ebay Execs just don't want any "stragglers" hanging around.. too much trouble. Not worth the bother.

eBay Updates UA on PayPal Holds, Buyer Protection   eBay Updates UA on PayPal Holds, Buyer Protection

by: o.c.d.collectibles This user has validated their user name.
Web Site

Tue Jul 20 13:40:33 2010

umm..are you sure Ebay didn't really mean to title it "Updated LOSER Agreement"? hahaha! I wonder when Pierre is going to SELL?? I guess it's all up to Pam. She runs the show.

eBay Updates UA on PayPal Holds, Buyer Protection   eBay Updates UA on PayPal Holds, Buyer Protection

by: Legal Beagle

Tue Jul 20 14:59:56 2010

When eBay Says: ''Your listing may not be immediately searchable by keyword or category for several hours (or up to 24 hours in some circumstances), so eBay can't guarantee exact listing durations.''

What eBay MEANS: ''We reserve the right to charge you for something you're not getting. We're tired of people trying to hold us accountable, so our lawyers have told us to tell you that our service is provided 'as-is' and there are no guarantees.''

eBay Updates UA on PayPal Holds, Buyer Protection   eBay Updates UA on PayPal Holds, Buyer Protection

by: Legal Beagle

Tue Jul 20 15:05:55 2010

eBay Says: ''Sellers agree to allow us to charge the payment method they designate for amounts due buyers.''

eBay MEANS: ''We know your bank account number and your credit card number and when we decided to refund your customer, we don't have to wait until there's money in your PayPal account. Instead, WE WILL JUST TAKE WHATEVER WE WANT from whatever account we can get our hands on. TOUGH SH-T FOR YOU! (HA! TRY TO REGULATE *THAT*, FEDS!)''

eBay Updates UA on PayPal Holds, Buyer Protection   eBay Updates UA on PayPal Holds, Buyer Protection

by: Patricia This user has validated their user name.

Tue Jul 20 16:24:24 2010

Seems to me Ebay is trying to dot every i and cross every t - the courts and various lawsuits are obviously breathing down their necks.  Well....this is what happens when you step out of the roll of being "only a venue."  ;-)

eBay Updates UA on PayPal Holds, Buyer Protection   eBay Updates UA on PayPal Holds, Buyer Protection

by: RicRoe

Tue Jul 20 16:50:11 2010

Sounds like PayPal is trying to end the flood of eBay sellers who make SNAD claims against eBay for fees related to listings which are never seen.

They are disclaiming any expectation of listing visibility and at the same time declaring they will collect all fees billed by eBay regardless of actual visibility from whatever account they can pull it from.

I anticipate further reductions in listing visibility for small sellers items and absolutely no recourse when their listing duration is significantly less than what the seller was charged for.

Not very seller friendly for a company that relies exclusively on third party sellers, but then again, it is eBay and that goes without saying. The adversarial relationship between eBay and their sellers is being ratcheted up again.

PayPal does not care.
eBay does not care.
John Donahoe does not care.
The Board of Directors does not care.

eBay Updates UA on PayPal Holds, Buyer Protection   eBay Updates UA on PayPal Holds, Buyer Protection

by: Hardrock Rules

Tue Jul 20 16:54:24 2010

@LEGAL BEAGLEm did you say LOSER agreement, or ABUSER AGREEMENT ?

Either way eBay reserves right to take our cash if we choose to list, but it is a crap shoot, we MAY or MAY NOT get our listing seen, same goes for PEST MATCH, Good till canceled in my experience good till NEVER SOLD

eBay wins, Pay Pal wins, we selelrs take a Gamnble

eBay Updates UA on PayPal Holds, Buyer Protection   eBay Updates UA on PayPal Holds, Buyer Protection

by: Troglodyte

Tue Jul 20 17:00:03 2010

If ebay makes a charge on my on file credit card, Chase can expect a complaint from me stating that it was an unauthorized transaction.

No entity can LEGALLY charge your credit card or withdraw money from your bank account without your affirmative approval -- user agreements not withstanding.

User agreements are not bullet proof and may not compel users to agree to being defrauded.

eBay Updates UA on PayPal Holds, Buyer Protection   eBay Updates UA on PayPal Holds, Buyer Protection

by: and

Tue Jul 20 17:35:55 2010

And dont forget, WE'RE JUST A VENUE

eBay Updates UA on PayPal Holds, Buyer Protection   eBay Updates UA on PayPal Holds, Buyer Protection

by: ???

Tue Jul 20 18:13:42 2010

I'm confused.  Is there no way to keep ebay out of your pockets?  Whatever they don't keep for themselves goes to the buyers regardless of whether a claim is legitimate.

eBay Updates UA on PayPal Holds, Buyer Protection   eBay Updates UA on PayPal Holds, Buyer Protection

This user has validated their user name. by: Philip Cohen

Tue Jul 20 19:20:36 2010

“And in the section about account suspensions, eBay added:
“(for example, and without limitation, policies related to shill bidding, conducting off-eBay transactions, feedback manipulation, circumventing temporary or permanent suspensions or users who we believe are harassing our employees or other users).”  

And again, for those of you that still do not understand that in all matters that eBay’s bottom line is the only consideration, understand: all such statements contain much smoke and mirrors. All eBay’s “stated policies” are nominal only except where a breach of those policies may have a detrimental effect on eBay’s bottom line.

For example, eBay also says that they don’t support shill bidding, but they do absolutely nothing proactively about it and effectively very little reactively about it. Indeed they otherwise knowingly and deliberately facilitate such criminal activity—because it benefits their bottom line.

Understand this: all eBay’s “stated policies” are nominal only except in as much as they affect eBay. Unless any such breach of their “stated policies” will have a direct detrimental financial effect on eBay, no truly effective action will be taken by eBay regarding any such breach. Alternately, if to take action may detrimentally affect their bottom line, they will likewise do effectively nothing. If either sellers or buyers appear to get any consideration at all from eBay (or PayPal), that will be purely coincidental.

Please, stop kidding yourselves that it will ever be otherwise.

eBay Updates UA on PayPal Holds, Buyer Protection   eBay Updates UA on PayPal Holds, Buyer Protection

by: not likely

Tue Jul 20 20:14:17 2010

How about making buyers place an alternate funding source on thier paypal?
this way if they dont pay it automatically gets charged to the Credit card.

eBay Updates UA on PayPal Holds, Buyer Protection   eBay Updates UA on PayPal Holds, Buyer Protection

by: Legal Beagle

Tue Jul 20 20:31:29 2010

IMAGINE IF YOU SAW THE FOLLOWING PARAGRAPH IN AN EBAY LISTING... now, ask yourself would you buy from this fictitious Seller?? If not, then why do we continue to buy crap from eBay?? What's the difference?

''By purchasing an item from my eBay listing, you agree to pay the price listed and the shipping fees listed. You assume full responsibility for understanding the content of this listing and about the item being sold, and you accept the following conditions: When you purchase this item, it will be set aside for you and you can view your receipt or the listing photo at any time. Your item may not be immediately shipped, and we may send your item to someone else if they offer a higher price. If this happens, we will do our best to obtain a comparable replacement of equal or lesser quality. In either case, we can't guarantee that we will ship anything to you within the next business week, and we can't guarantee that the shipper will be able to deliver it to you. The speed that your item arrives, the quality of packing, and its condition after arrival will be based on certain factors including whether or not you have already left positive feedback for us, and whether or not you have a history of leaving positive feedback for others, and whether or not you paid within 10 seconds of the sale, and whether or not you pestered us with questions seeking information that was already included in the listing.''

eBay Updates UA on PayPal Holds, Buyer Protection   eBay Updates UA on PayPal Holds, Buyer Protection

by: Lisa This user has validated their user name.
Web Site

Tue Jul 20 22:04:22 2010

by: ???
     
Tue Jul 20 18:13:42 2010
I'm confused.  Is there no way to keep ebay out of your pockets?  Whatever they don't keep for themselves goes to the buyers regardless of whether a claim is legitimate.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

quit selling on ebay?

L

eBay Updates UA on PayPal Holds, Buyer Protection   eBay Updates UA on PayPal Holds, Buyer Protection

by: Kitty

Tue Jul 20 23:07:34 2010

I am confused, but I always was when I read through all the updates.

So I must use PayPal and must agree to have PayPal hold the funds to any eBay transaction.
I must agree that if a buyer whines in the least, PayPal may choose any of my accounts to withdraw funds from.
Or I can go to another site, use PayPal, make the same sale and get my money with no strange holds on the money.  

Sounds like eBay is trying to grow PayPal at the expense of eBay.
Did I read that right?

As far as the disappearing listings, that has happened so many times.  I list 500 items, only 200 show...for days.
Broken links to store items, items hidden behind ''best match'' because my 100% feedback was not better than a 97% super-seller.  List things for 7 days, they do not hit the viewable listings for 24 to 30 hours.
These are eBay's ordinary business practices in action.
It's finally a good thing they got it in black and white for all to mock openly.

at least they are dropping any last veil of being ''only a venue''


eBay Updates UA on PayPal Holds, Buyer Protection   eBay Updates UA on PayPal Holds, Buyer Protection

by: Fruity This user has validated their user name.

Wed Jul 21 01:14:41 2010

I don't agree or consent to defrauding the federal government, ebay! Your siphoning those deposit accounts , I'm just gonna snitch on you for the reward money

eBay Updates UA on PayPal Holds, Buyer Protection   eBay Updates UA on PayPal Holds, Buyer Protection

by: Rupert Pupkin
Web Site

Wed Jul 21 10:17:42 2010

"or users who we believe are harassing our employees..."

eBay is taking on a bunker mentality.

Check my website for a photo of the shoes Lorrie N. sold on eBay.

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