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Tue Aug 18 2009 14:37:23

eBay Updates User Agreement to Cover Dispute Process

By: Ina Steiner

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eBay updated its User Agreement in two areas to cover changes announced in its "SR2" changes on July 27th. One of the areas changing in the User Agreement covers eBay's decision to move dispute resolution from PayPal to eBay. The other main area covers eBay's new Photo/Product Catalog policy (see the Content section of the new User Agreement).

According to today's announcement, "The biggest change to the agreement supports the new on-eBay resolution process and accompanying policy. With this user agreement update, the policy and process will offer coverage for all buyers who purchase an item on eBay.com."

The website TOSBack.org published a visual way of tracking the changes by showing what has been deleted in the old User Agreement and what has been added to the new User Agreement. Some of the issues that jump out under the "Buyer Protection" section are the following:

If we resolve a dispute in the buyer's favor, we will refund the buyer for the cost of the item and the original shipping, and we will require the seller to reimburse us for the refund.

Sellers must have a reimbursement method on file with eBay.

If sellers do not provide eBay with a valid reimbursement method, we may collect amounts owed using other collection mechanisms, including retaining collection agencies. We may also suspend or restrict sellers from trading on our sites until payment is made.

Some of the changes in language had to do with two events:

1) eBay is moving the dispute resolution process from PayPal to eBay.

2) eBay is extending covering non-PayPal transactions, whereas before it had only covered PayPal transactions.

As eBay moves the dispute resolution process to eBay, it is moving PayPal's policies to eBay's UA as well, such as the point about retaining collection agencies in cases where the company was unable to collect owed funds from sellers.

So at first blush, it appears that for sellers who had accepted PayPal, much of the nitty-gritty is unchanged, with the exception of one key point. (And of course for non-PayPal transactions, these are major changes.)

We spoke to eBay about today's announcement. Spokesperson John Pluhowski said: "In the current case, PayPal can actually take accounts negative and latch on to the funds so that they can get the money back on any future transactions. In the new eBay process, if we're not able to reverse the funds with PayPal, we're going to be asking the seller to provide a credit card."

The new Buyer Protection section is "essentially the part we've ported over from PayPal, plus the new information about asking a sellers for an additional payment on file."

Mr. Pluhowski said, "In the eBay resolution process, in almost all cases, the buyer is instructed to return the item to the seller prior to getting any type of refund. The only case where the buyer might be asked to destroy an item is if the buyer has proof from the manufacturer that the item is counterfeit." (Only manufacturer proof would be accepted, experts or appraisers would not count, he said.*)

He emphasized that eBay's goal was to have buyers and sellers work together to resolve disputes. Referring to a post we made on this Blog in May about Best Practices, he said our point about consistency was critical. We wrote, "make sure your listing Title, Item Specifics, photos and descriptions are consistent," and he said this would protect sellers in many cases, using the following as an example of inconsistency: a seller who had "New in Box" in the title, but "I removed memory chip" in the description.

*Update - eBay's Mr. Pluhowski sent an update that expands on the statement regarding counterfeits, referring to eBay's policy:

What happens if a buyer believes an item is counterfeit?
Buyers are not obligated to provide third-party confirmation that an item is counterfeit to open a claim. However, in some cases, a buyer may have written confirmation that the item is counterfeit from a reliable third party (such as the manufacturer or law enforcement). In those cases, buyers agree to cooperate with eBay to ensure the proper disposal of the counterfeit item. For example, buyers may be asked to certify that the item has been destroyed or send the item to the rights owner or other appropriate third party for disposal. Any costs associated with this destruction or disposal may be paid by eBay, in our sole discretion.





Comments (42) | Permalink

Readers Comments

eBay Updates User Agreement to Cover Dispute Process   eBay Updates User Agreement to Cover Dispute Process

by: Ebay Paid My Bills

Tue Aug 18 16:09:53 2009

Ebay will do what Ebay wants to do.

We are all just NOISE!

eBay Updates User Agreement to Cover Dispute Process   eBay Updates User Agreement to Cover Dispute Process

by: so what

Tue Aug 18 16:29:30 2009

HAHAHAHA

And again the arrogant ebay speaks.

eBay Updates User Agreement to Cover Dispute Process   eBay Updates User Agreement to Cover Dispute Process

by: o.c.d.collectibles

Tue Aug 18 16:38:31 2009

Who cares? They are a day late and a dollar short. Besides, it will still end up being a deduction from the seller's account, even if the buyer decides to lie about the transaction (typical on ebay).Ebay is Not a safe place to do business as a seller regardless. You couldn't PAY me to put a listing on ebay again.

Nope, still not sold on selling there again. Not then.. (2 years ago when the first "announcement" was made) and not now!

I made the transition to Go Antiques, and although I only listed a few little things, it took almost no time at all to be noticed, was able to cover my monthly   FLAT fee without doing much of anything at ALL!...but listing only 30 items in my store Total. The few little sales I made were to serious buyers, who gave me no troubles whatsoever, and it was smooth as silk....

Granted, I would like the ability to be able to show more photos, and a more "tech pretty" listing, but the ease of care, the search-ability is certainly NO problem at all, I can hardly believe people can find my stuff at all, since I have so few things listed and I do virtually no advertising! Really!I've been very lazy at work there!

Anyway, If I really did some work and put some stuff up, I could do a heck of a lot better!LOL! I'm just hoping for more photo expandability!So, this is my reflection, not to worry, everyone has their opinion, this is just mine.

If you think ebay is a great and safe place to sell, Go for it!

eBay Updates User Agreement to Cover Dispute Process   eBay Updates User Agreement to Cover Dispute Process

by: Rich

Tue Aug 18 17:33:28 2009

I embrace each and every change! They are like little mini-XMas presents I look forward to. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

eBay Updates User Agreement to Cover Dispute Process   eBay Updates User Agreement to Cover Dispute Process

by: Ebay's Slow Death

Tue Aug 18 18:11:23 2009

Sounds to me like Ebay and PayPal are trying to separate, so that one or both can be sold.

Isn't that usually what happens when a CEO is brought in to dismantle a company?  Selling the skeleton of what is left is usually the final step.

PayPal is healthy and Ebay is becoming more of a skeleton every day. Ebay has kicked the small Sellers to the curb and brought in the big guys, who run their own show, and require little from Ebay except for server space.

Who are they going to sell first-Ebay or PayPal?  And, who will be the Buyers?

eBay Updates User Agreement to Cover Dispute Process   eBay Updates User Agreement to Cover Dispute Process

by: Law student

Tue Aug 18 22:37:39 2009

Does Ebay inform the buyer that if they are making a fraudulent claim regarding counterfeit items they may be sued by the seller of said item, and should turn over said item to the local police as evidence? Because that's what I would do if this ever arose. Ebay is throwing open yet another doorway that's a trap & will backfire on them.

eBay Updates User Agreement to Cover Dispute Process   eBay Updates User Agreement to Cover Dispute Process

by: matza

Tue Aug 18 22:53:28 2009

Claims are probably at an all time high. They created a monster and in turn caused more crime than ever before. Stores don't have security forces because shoppers are the most honest bunch at all times.

Instead of ebay doing the right thing and pre-approving having sellers credit and background checked they stupidly decided that all buyers are just honest as can be and let them decide the outcome of a sellers business.

Now they need the money from all the fraudulent claims that have likely skyrocketed to infinity they put in these new clauses to further stick it to small sellers.

Every person in the top ranks of ebay needs to be fired immediately. They do not have a clue as to what they are doing and Donohoe is the poster child of STUPIDITY.

I think his parents either paid off someone for him to graduate or he cheated his way through.

Maybe this company was never meant to last, after all it was started with a broken laser pointer. It's success may have been a short lived fluky freak accident. Morons are now in charge and it's coming down fast.

eBay Updates User Agreement to Cover Dispute Process   eBay Updates User Agreement to Cover Dispute Process

by: Ebay h8 club

Tue Aug 18 23:45:57 2009

It could have lasted if Pierre cared enough to stay involved, instead of just becoming fat & lazy off our fees.
Ebay was alweays about Greed for him, it all started as a gift to his girlfriend after she tried to sell her junky Pez collection, and now it's ending in the ruin of the collectibles business in the USA.

eBay Updates User Agreement to Cover Dispute Process   eBay Updates User Agreement to Cover Dispute Process

by: Rolling Reserves for Everyone. Coming Soon!

Wed Aug 19 01:09:52 2009

Hey Ina,

Why don't you ask Mr. Pluhowski if they are planning to place Rolling Reserves on all of their sellers Paypal Accounts.

That is what people who are complaining are being told. That eventually everyone will be subject to have 10 to 20% of their daily Paypal transactions held on them for 60 days or more.

It is happening to me now despite the fact that I have never had one single chargeback. But that's not even as bad as what I am about to say. I have been watching as they take my money every single day. They are taking more than the 10% they are claiming. I have been taking screen snapshots everyday to document this.

What's really happening here is that they are taking my money for 60 days and collecting interest on it all under the guise that they are ''protecting the buyer.'' This is how they plan to fool ''investors'' into thinking that they are doing so great. These people are disgusting and they need to have their heads handed to them by somebody.

I hope the folks here at Auctionbytes do some investigative journalism on this one. Somebody needs to do something!

eBay Updates User Agreement to Cover Dispute Process   eBay Updates User Agreement to Cover Dispute Process

by: Rolling Reserves for Everyone. Coming Soon!

Wed Aug 19 01:11:54 2009

For folks who want to find out more about Ebay's disgusting ''Rolling Reserve,'' please follow the link below where you will see what other Ebay sellers are saying about it.

http://forums.ebay.com/db2/topic/Paypal/Paypals-Quotrolling
-Reservequot/520138949&start=240

eBay Updates User Agreement to Cover Dispute Process   eBay Updates User Agreement to Cover Dispute Process

This user has validated their user name. by: Ming the Merciless

Wed Aug 19 01:15:06 2009

Every time ebay attempts to "clarify" anything, all they succeed in accomplishing is opening more cans of stinky worms.

Just watch. The ever increasing bottom dwellers of the ebay buying class will seize on the new counterfeit policy like jackals after a carcass.

In the law, those making affirmative assertions are required to prove them. Buyers, therefore, MUST provide incontrovertible evidence that said item is counterfeit.

The buyer's opinion or for that matter ebay's long distance opinion that the item is counterfeit is LEGALLY INSUFFICIENT to reverse the payment or for seizure.

If ebay rules the item is counterfiet and orders its seizure or verifiable destruction WITHOUT DUE PROCESS (the way the LAW defines due process, not the way ebay does!), ebay and the buyer are committing the crime of destruction of evidence since the seller has been accused of a crime for all intents and purposes.

Police have no more right to destroy evidence than the buyer does nor do the police have the legal right to destroy the property of the seller without the permission of the seller OR WITHOUT A COURT ORDER.

The small claims courts are the remedy for this latest piece of crap from the ugly new face of ebay.

NEG MEG WHITMAN in 2010.
DEATH to ebay corp. in 2009.

eBay Updates User Agreement to Cover Dispute Process   eBay Updates User Agreement to Cover Dispute Process

This user has validated their user name. by: Ming the Merciless

Wed Aug 19 01:19:28 2009

Death to ebay corp. by a thousand cuts:

1.  US Department of Justice (DoJ)
    Anti Trust Division
    950 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW
    Washington, DC 20530
    E-mail: antitrust.atr@usdoj.gov

    How to submit a complaint:

    http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/contact/newcase.htm


2. Federal Trade Commission (FTC)
   Consumer Response Center
   600 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW
   Washington, DC 20580

    Mission: The Federal Trade Commission is the nation's consumer protection agency. The FTC's Bureau of Consumer Protection works For The Consumer to prevent fraud, deception, and unfair business practices in the marketplace. The Bureau:

Enhances consumer confidence by enforcing federal laws that protect consumers Empowers consumers with free information to help them exercise their rights and spot and avoid fraud and deception Wants to hear from consumers who want to get information or file a complaint about fraud or identity theft

    To report a company for a pattern and practice of suspected fraud:

    1-877-382-4357

    The FTC doe NOT resolve individual consumer complaints. Please confine your remarks whether verbal or written to ebay/PayPal policies you believe are illegal.

    Online fraud complaint form:

    https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/

3. Securities and Exchange Commission
   SEC Complaint Center
   100 F Street NE
   Washington, D.C. 20549-0213

   http://www.sec.gov/divisions/enforce.shtml
   (above link includes information about insider trading and sending tips and complaints

  1. Insider trading: http://www.sec.gov/divisions/enforce/insider.htm
  2. Tips and Complaints: http://www.sec.gov/complaint.shtml

  Online complaint forms: http://www.sec.gov/complaint/selectconduct.shtml

  Hypthetically, if I were filing an SEC complaint, I'd strongly consider:

  --False or misleading statements about a company (including false or misleading SEC reports or financial statements)

-- Stock price manipulation to enrich executive with stock options? Note that ebay has had several cosnecutuve quarterly losses yet their stock has more than doubled and they've been buying up their own stock.

5. Rep. Henry Waxman (D-CA)
   Chairman
   House Energy and Commerce Committee
   2204 Rayburn
   House Office Building
   Washington, D.C. 20515
   Telephone (202) 225-3976
   Fax (202) 225-4099

   LOS ANGELES OFFICE
   8436 West Third Street, Ste 600
   Los Angeles, CA 90048
   Telephone 1 (310) 652-3095
   Telephone 2 (818) 878-7400
   Telephone 3 (323) 651-1040
   Fax (323) 655-0502

   http://waxman.house.gov/

6. Attorney General’s Office
   California Department of Justice
   Attn: Consumer Protection Division
   P.O. Box 944255
   Sacramento, CA 94244-2550
   (916) 322-3360

http://ag.ca.gov/contact/complaint_form.php?cmplt=CLR>
7.
Attorney General's Office
   2115 State Capitol
   Lincoln, NE 68509
   Consumer Protection Division: (800) 727-6432

   Online complaint form: http://www.ago.ne.gov/consumer/emailforms/consumer_complaint.htm
R>Specific
consumer complaints to the Attorney Generals against ebay/PayPal should be directed to the California and Nebraska Attorney general's Office Divison of Consumer complaints. Complaints could include PayPal holds on seller funds, ebay billing issues, PayPal confiscation of seller property, etc. PayPal complaints should be directed to both attorney generals' office, and ebay complaints should be sent to California.

General comments:

-- Emails and phone calls are fine, but SNAIL MAIL has more impact. PLEASE send all complaints with regular USPS mail.

-- When filing and mailing WRITTEN complaints, spring for an extra envelope and stamp and send a copy to the San Jose Better Bureau. Little will come of it, BUT ebay MUST file a written response.

-- Rep. Waxman has the ability to hold public hearings on the conduct of a business or industry. He has the power to subpoena executives past and present, past and present rank and file employees, and records. Consider the possibilities :-)

8. San Jose Better Business Bureau
   1112 S. Bascom Ave.
   San Jose, CA 95128
   Phone: (408) 278-7400

9. Ebay operates in all 50 states. Therefore sending copies of complaints or filing directly with your state's attorney general's office will make a difference if they receive enough complaints. Your can find your attorney general and consumer protection
information by using a search engine using these keywords (Your state) Attorney General Consumer Protection.

Please post this information on every relevant website and blog -- especially TV news, newspaper, financial, and business media blogs and websites. This information should be posted in hundreds of location on a daily basis for maximum and persistent exposure. Remember that certain corporations hire people to disrupt blogs and that includes spamming them to bury unwelcome messages.

10. Michael Moore

   http:///www.michaelmoore.com
   mike@michaelmoore.com

Michael can do for ebay what he did for GM.

Ebay: America's most despicable corporation run by America's most despicable executives.

eBay Updates User Agreement to Cover Dispute Process   eBay Updates User Agreement to Cover Dispute Process

by: fruity

Wed Aug 19 02:12:36 2009

Ina, I think they are positioning themselves to justify a forced reserve on all sellers. The way its worded, its almost as though ebay knows its going to get sellers riled up. and I believe ebay will probably come up with a.. u can always optionally have us retain a reserve "so we dont bankrupt you after christmas" sorta way.

Anyways, everyone should be calling their state contact per the multi state attorney general settlement with paypal. You'll be able to get them on ebay/paypal faster than anything. Nothing against what Mings posting regarding contacting agencies, but the only way you'll get their attention this late in the game is to have them reopen their previous investigation and state they are breaching the pre-existing "Assurance of Compliance or Discontinuance agreement". Its known to them, its targeted and its probably the easiest way to get someone to look at them.


Google: Crist: PayPal to Pay $1.7 Million to 28 States, Modifies Payment Practices

and in that announcement is a .pdf file. That file has your state contact which may be part of the AG office but it also may be the attorney in your state that deals with consumer protection.

eBay Updates User Agreement to Cover Dispute Process   eBay Updates User Agreement to Cover Dispute Process

by: fruity

Wed Aug 19 02:18:04 2009

and if you dont lift a finger and pick up the phone or email that contact then you all deserve what ebay does to you. Which totally looks to be forced withholding for reserves, more control over your activity, changes to consumer protection and who knows what else... but just imagine the domino effect that can happen if suddenly 30 days after the transaction and you've spent the money you made, ebay instructions paypal to claw into your bank account on file and your checks bounce with insufficient funds, your utility, or business merchandise orders get declined, or ebay turns you over to collection and you are now dealing with a derogatory mark on your credit score that says Ebay on your record for what 13 years? Its better to pick up the phone and question whether these practice can be split away from paypal to begin with... than to wait til your family is having to split apart top ramen noodles for dinner.

eBay Updates User Agreement to Cover Dispute Process   eBay Updates User Agreement to Cover Dispute Process

by: Disgraceful

Wed Aug 19 09:40:18 2009

Same old tricks, just like many credit card companies do. You are reeled in, now they change the rules and CONTINUE to change the rules whenever and whatever they feel like. But, There is ALWAYS something you can do. We now do not Combine shipping & handling and make sure to tell all ebayers why (ebays rules & high fees & anti-seller stance) and NO MORE feedback left, i don't care how much you buy. It is volintuary and we will not be ebay's whipping boy. and now we change 3.oo per question to any ebayer. And we make sure to telkl everyone about iOffer.com, Wensy.com and Bonanzle.com.
We pay ebay's bills and then some. Time for revenge.

eBay Updates User Agreement to Cover Dispute Process   eBay Updates User Agreement to Cover Dispute Process

by: I don't think so

Wed Aug 19 10:14:35 2009

"Michael can do for ebay what he did for GM."
Great!Then Obama can take over eBay!  We can all rescue ebay with our tax dollars and Amazon can sell off the parts.


eBay Updates User Agreement to Cover Dispute Process   eBay Updates User Agreement to Cover Dispute Process

by: Harriet

Wed Aug 19 10:25:27 2009

Inquiring minds would like to know--what if the item in question was actually NOT conterfeit, the buyer was clueless or just a scam artist, and eBay does nothing to help the seller, and has the item "destroyed" (or course, the buyer will destroy it, right?).

Is this ethical or fair?

eBay Updates User Agreement to Cover Dispute Process   eBay Updates User Agreement to Cover Dispute Process

by: Jon McAuliffe

Wed Aug 19 11:02:39 2009

Why does ebay always put the onus on Sellers?  Buyers are practically encouraged to make false claims, keep the item they purchased and get their purchase price PLUS shipping returned to them.  A large volume, viable alternative to ebay is just waiting to happen.

eBay Updates User Agreement to Cover Dispute Process   eBay Updates User Agreement to Cover Dispute Process

by: Jim

Wed Aug 19 11:40:35 2009

1.  Bad buyers are a minority.
2.  Don't spend some of your receipts for 30 days.
3.  Set a reserve aside as insurance for when crap happens.  

Not rocket science.  Credit cards and even Google checkout allows for customer returns up to 30 day.  Money Orders can be stolen or forged and checks bounce.  There is always the possibility of loss.    You would have these problems  with a brick and mortar operation with the addition of shoplifting and robbery to enliven things.


At the moment, between saving me $ on fake credit card charge backs and costing me $ in frivolous returns, Paypal is a wash.  

eBay Updates User Agreement to Cover Dispute Process   eBay Updates User Agreement to Cover Dispute Process

by: susan

Wed Aug 19 11:58:27 2009

Ho can you tell paypal is holding your money back for these 60 days.  How does this show in the paypal account?
I have never seen this so is it hidden is some way?


ebay has now issued a new licence to every buyer to complain about an item and get the seller to pay back the money and keep the item.

I had to do this once buyer comlained I gave him back his money let him keep the item and he still left me a negative comment how do  you like that??
they are out there and will keep commin in like flys.  I will not fall for it next time.

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