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Tue Mar 17 2009 10:15:03

Kentucky Auctioneers Do Not Want to Limit eBay Sales

By: Ina Steiner

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AuctionBytes Newsflash reported on pending legislation (House Bill 193) in Kentucky that updates auctioneer licensing requirements. Some sellers were concerned that the regulation could affect their eBay and online auction sales activities and require them to obtain an auctioneer's license.
 
Representative Danny Ford, a co-sponsor of the bill, told AuctionBytes today that he wants to ease those worries. He has a letter from the Kentucky Board of Auctioneers, which had requested the legislation, stating that they are not trying to impede online sales. The board has been in ongoing talks with eBay, Ford said. "In no way is it to impede eBay's ability to do anything."

Ford said that there are some people who have not complied with Kentucky law that have nothing to do with online sales, and they have "done an excellent job of trying to put fear out there."

Representative Ford said he knows the importance of online sales, and in fact, he said, eBay sellers come to auctions to resell on eBay, "and we're thankful for that."

As to the amendment that addressed Internet sellers, Ford said it was withdrawn because of online sellers who might usurp the laws that would affect them, such as real estate licensing laws. He said anyone with concerns should contact the Kentucky Board of Auctioneers directly for clarification.




Comments (14) | Permalink

Readers Comments

Kentucky Auctioneers Do Not Want to Limit eBay Sales   Kentucky Auctioneers Do Not Want to Limit eBay Sales

by: whynot

Tue Mar 17 10:55:12 2009

I have a feeling I will get flamed because my opinion will be unpopular, but I have no problem with that kind of legislation as long as it only takes in drop-off stores and trading assistants.Those folks are businesses who are in fact acting as stand in auctioneers when they accept goods for sale.

It is an added protection to the consumer and may help stem the rising number of situations where customers arrive at the drop off to pick up their money only to find the place has closed their doors.

I don't know what kind of rules apply to auctioneers in Kentucky, but hopefully something that makes it clear that the commission and fees belong to the auctioneer and the net proceeds are owed to the client, therefore making it easier to sue for theft or misapropriation or fraud.

The wild west early days of ebay are long gone. If you have a few personal things to get rid of and sell them then you are just doing the online equivalent of having a yard sale and shouldn't have to worry about anything.

If you are selling on ebay as a business, even if only a small one on the side, then you should act like a business. Declare the income, pay state/provincial taxes where necessary, and comply with whatever the regulations are in your jurisdiction are pertaining to operating a business.

I'm a small time ebay seller (11 years) and a real world antiques dealer as well. I registered my business in the early days because I thought it was the right thing to do. Is it a pita filling out tax forms,keeping records etc. Well, yes, but that is what a business does. Just because I can do my job at home in my jammies if I want to doesn't make me any less a business.

If you are going to be responsible for other peoples money, then you should be prepared to function under some sort of regulation.

Kentucky Auctioneers Do Not Want to Limit eBay Sales   Kentucky Auctioneers Do Not Want to Limit eBay Sales

This user has validated their user name. by: Ina

Tue Mar 17 11:22:08 2009

It's not regulation per se that is troublesome, IMO. It's the apprenticeship and auctioneer-school requirements that don't apply to online selling. In Kentucky, it's a 2-year apprenticeship requirement.

Kentucky Auctioneers Do Not Want to Limit eBay Sales   Kentucky Auctioneers Do Not Want to Limit eBay Sales

by: ebay=penny stock

Tue Mar 17 11:47:09 2009

@whynot

I totally agree with you. No flame.

Sorry Ina. Each state has its rules and regulations. You have to get pro active in government if you disagree and get things changed.

Otherwise its off to school you go.

Kentucky Auctioneers Do Not Want to Limit eBay Sales   Kentucky Auctioneers Do Not Want to Limit eBay Sales

by: Clay

Tue Mar 17 11:51:06 2009

Perhaps this is why eBay has been pushing fixed price -vs- bidding. Fixed price can be viewed more as wholesale/retail in design where as bidding is associated with auctioneers.  I do not trust any legislation or any Representative saying we would not do this and we understand that contrary to the wording of the Bill. I don't trust any of them to practice what they preach.

They may Grandfather some into the title such as antique dealers and collectors with years of experience, but I think as time goes by and Representatives change, problems arise etc. they will enforce that bill tooth and nail. I have no love for eBay anymore and could care less what happens to the company. However this will impact small sellers in the long run who list on eBay, and that is not fair to them.

I strongly recommend small sellers to be focusing more on their own websites, and alternative sites other then eBay, and to move away from eBay quickly because the next year is going to be real tough for them. IMHO

Kentucky Auctioneers Do Not Want to Limit eBay Sales   Kentucky Auctioneers Do Not Want to Limit eBay Sales

by: Scriptorical

Tue Mar 17 12:10:00 2009

I think it is quite possible that states may implement legislation addressing this auctioneer thing on the internet in the coming years. Especially if it is a way to get revenue for the state. Sort of like building permits, licenses, tax stamps, etc. Everyone pays. As the Government attempts to control the internet more and more each year this may be an additional tool for them. I guess time will tell. Regards www.scriptorical.com

Kentucky Auctioneers Do Not Want to Limit eBay Sales   Kentucky Auctioneers Do Not Want to Limit eBay Sales

by: Bryan Langeneckert

Wed Mar 18 08:14:41 2009

Rather than take the word of the Kentucky Board of Auctioneers, you'd better go through the legislation with a fine-toothed comb and decide for yourself.  The Board, at least in my case, abandoned the public trust in favor of protecting one of their own auctioneers.  Do NOT, even for a second, believe they are looking out for anyone other than their industry and fellow auctioneers.  If you like, have a look at my complaint site for more details.

Kentucky Auctioneers Do Not Want to Limit eBay Sales   Kentucky Auctioneers Do Not Want to Limit eBay Sales

by: Bryan Langeneckert

Wed Mar 18 08:20:30 2009

Rather than take the word of the Kentucky Board of Auctioneers, you'd better go through the legislation with a fine-toothed comb and decide for yourself.  The Board, at least in my case, abandoned the public trust in favor of protecting one of their own auctioneers.  Do NOT, even for a second, believe they are looking out for anyone other than their industry and fellow auctioneers.  If you like, have a look at my complaint site for more details.

http://KentuckyBoardOfAuctioneersSucks.com

Kentucky Auctioneers Do Not Want to Limit eBay Sales   Kentucky Auctioneers Do Not Want to Limit eBay Sales

by: John

Wed Mar 18 10:50:50 2009

Online merchants need fedearl laws to help them with such nonsense. It's time Washington woke up and regulated the marketplace so that there are clear rules that favoir the majority of Americans and not some small profession or large multinational corporation (sic Ebay, Amazon). For those that don't realize this many of the rules ebay places on their selles would be illegal if sellers had some form of protection like franchisors do in a franchise relationship.

Kentucky Auctioneers Do Not Want to Limit eBay Sales   Kentucky Auctioneers Do Not Want to Limit eBay Sales

by: Scott

Wed Mar 18 16:10:38 2009

Having been personally involved in fighting this process I can tell you that many auctioneers have always viewed Drop-Off-Stores as competitors.  Recently at the Kentucky Auctioneers Associations convention, some auctioneers openly argued that eBay sellers should be stopped.  Taking all this into consideration along with a quick reading of the bill, you'll see that their intended targets we're eBay sellers that take on consignments or those like us that purchase with the intent to resell.  Even thought Rep Ford feels it wasn’t their intent I can safely say that the person claiming responsibility for drafting the language feels differently.  I believe that our efforts trying to fight this caused this new spin on its intent.

What some don’t realize is that you cant even sell your own property if you purchased it for resale using the "auction method" ie...sites like eBay that allow for competitive bidding UNLESS you have an auctioneers license.  You might think...well I'll just get an auctioneers license to be in compliance...its not that simple.  First you must serve a two year apprenticeship with a local auctioneer.  This normally consists of you moving around heavy furniture and appliances at their auctions for low or no wages...And there is no-way around that unlike other states that allow you to attend a professional auction school.

I personally have two college degrees from Purdue including graduate level course work in-marketing-accounting-business ethics and more, along with having attended a professional auction school, plus over 150 additional hours of specialized auction education offered through the National Auctioneers Association, currently I’m a licensed auctioneer in the State of Indiana, conducted numerous online auctions along with being a Platinum PowerSeller on eBay with approx sales of 1 million and Rep Ford says that I'm not qualified to conduct my own sales which we’ve been doing for 6+ years.

It’s even to the point that you can serve your apprenticeship under someone that didn’t even graduate HS thanks to Rep Fords work on HB193.  Imagine the quality education they’ll be providing you.  Kentucky’s Good Ole Boy system is alive and well.

Kentucky Auctioneers Do Not Want to Limit eBay Sales   Kentucky Auctioneers Do Not Want to Limit eBay Sales

by: Scott

Wed Mar 18 16:11:24 2009

Having been personally involved in fighting this process I can tell you that many auctioneers have always viewed Drop-Off-Stores as competitors.  Recently at the Kentucky Auctioneers Associations convention, some auctioneers openly argued that eBay sellers should be stopped.  Taking all this into consideration along with a quick reading of the bill, you'll see that their intended targets we're eBay sellers that take on consignments or those like us that purchase with the intent to resell.  Even thought Rep Ford feels it wasn’t their intent I can safely say that the person claiming responsibility for drafting the language feels differently.  I believe that our efforts trying to fight this caused this new spin on its intent.

What some don’t realize is that you cant even sell your own property if you purchased it for resale using the "auction method" ie...sites like eBay that allow for competitive bidding UNLESS you have an auctioneers license.  You might think...well I'll just get an auctioneers license to be in compliance...its not that simple.  First you must serve a two year apprenticeship with a local auctioneer.  This normally consists of you moving around heavy furniture and appliances at their auctions for low or no wages...And there is no-way around that unlike other states that allow you to attend a professional auction school.

I personally have two college degrees from Purdue including graduate level course work in-marketing-accounting-business ethics and more, along with having attended a professional auction school, plus over 150 additional hours of specialized auction education offered through the National Auctioneers Association, currently I’m a licensed auctioneer in the State of Indiana, conducted numerous online auctions along with being a Platinum PowerSeller on eBay with approx sales of 1 million and Rep Ford says that I'm not qualified to conduct my own sales which we’ve been doing for 6+ years.

It’s even to the point that you can serve your apprenticeship under someone that didn’t even graduate HS thanks to Rep Fords work on HB193.  Imagine the quality education they’ll be providing you.  Kentucky’s Good Ole Boy system is alive and well.

Kentucky Auctioneers Do Not Want to Limit eBay Sales   Kentucky Auctioneers Do Not Want to Limit eBay Sales

by: Tim

Thu Mar 19 00:35:05 2009

What Scott said!

If this was just another license fee (tax) for our business, I'd just grumble a bit and pay it.  But I can't afford to shut down all my eBay auction listings for TWO YEARS while I serve a mandatory apprenticeship just to become eligible to pay the tax for an auctioneer's license.  Rep. Ford can spin things to characterize whatever intent he wants; the wording of the bill very clearly includes eBay sellers who use the auction format.

Kentucky Auctioneers Do Not Want to Limit eBay Sales   Kentucky Auctioneers Do Not Want to Limit eBay Sales

by: Theresa

Thu Mar 19 08:39:59 2009

I have been watching this legistation with bated breath as I too am a consignment seller living in Louisville, KY.  Between the morons running ebay and our local good ole' boy politicans, I sometimes wonder why I bother.  

My company is incorporated and we pay federal, state and local taxes.  We also have an employee payroll for those that work at our drop off store.  And frankly, the licensed auctioneers are fools and don't seem to realize or care that they are shooting themselves in the foot.  I go to their live auctions and run the prices up with my bids.  I frequently receive inquiries about live auctions and I always give them the phone numbers of my favorite local auctioneers.  On average, I was sending them three referrals a week, but with this slap in the face, I will discontinue that practice.

@whynot
We run a reputable company and there is no difference between us selling our customers items online or you selling your yard sale junk in your jammies.  We offer an honest service that helps people get a little extra money in their pocket.  And if they don't want to pay our commission, we are ebay Education Specialists and hold courses to teach others to sell on ebay.  In today's economy, everyone needs a place like ebay so why don't the politicians and MBA nitwits at ebay leave us alone?

Kentucky Auctioneers Do Not Want to Limit eBay Sales   Kentucky Auctioneers Do Not Want to Limit eBay Sales

by: netsellsit

Thu Mar 19 10:28:24 2009

It certainly is not about tax or monitary license cost.  Illinois Department of Banks and Real Estate amended the Auctioneering License act to require anybody selling anything for another where the fee is a percentage of the value to be a licensed auctioneer.  You can't get an individual license without working for a business with a auctioneering license.  You can't get a business auctioneering license without an employee with an individual auctionioneering license... tough to get a start-up.  Sounds like Kentucky's apprenticeship does the same effective restraint of trade.

It is ostensibly about protecting citizens yet there have been precious few suits brought against any drop-off in any state.  The only faction crying wolf are traditional auctioneers.

The Illinois license test has not one question that would appear to relate to a drop-off business.  The rather expensive continuing education requirement can only be met by attending expensive classes with little applicable content for a drop-off.  

The Illinois law requires that client funds not be comingled and that proceeds be placed in escrow until settlement.  I guess that means you can't accept PayPal and just ask your bank about setting up 1,500 separate, sometimes single use, deposit accounts.  Maybe we can get PayPal to set-up 1,500 unique accounts?

Kentucky Auctioneers Do Not Want to Limit eBay Sales   Kentucky Auctioneers Do Not Want to Limit eBay Sales

by: kristy

Sun Apr 5 16:11:14 2009

Protrect the buyers Danny Ford dont back down now the consumers on ebay need this done and more.



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