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Wed June 18 2008 14:35:01

Mr. Electric 'Shocked' by No-Neg Policy

By: Ina Steiner

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Richard Zehnpfennig drove 6 hours from Michigan to attend eBay Live in Chicago and paid extra to get a Priority Pass that gives him special access to events and time with executives. He wants to learn more about Turbo Lister and is also looking for tips on listing and selling.

When asked if he had anything to tell eBay executives while he was here, Zehnpfennig said "how come I can't put bad marks against a buyer?" He said he takes care of his customers and has 100% feedback.

Now, even if he takes care of his customers, they can still leave him a negative - and there is nothing he can do about it.

Is there anything eBay can do to fix it? "Yes, let me leave bad marks for buyers. I wouldn't do it unless they really deserved it." He said he's never left a negative for a buyer, but was clearly uncomfortable with the idea that he had no leverage with buyers to keep them from leaving him negative ratings.

Zehnpfennig said he has problems with unpaid items (deadbeat buyers) and relayed a story about one such case. "I tried to work with him," he said, but the buyer didn't answer emails, and finally asked for more time to get the cash together.

Zehnpfennig sells electrical items on eBay under the name Mr.Electric007 - "electronics and electrical, AC/DC drives, Allen Bradley equipment, motors…"

What does "Mr. Electric" think of eBay in general? He said he was happy except for the no-neg policy. "I have no complaints," he said.

Comments (23) | Permalink

Readers Comments

Mr. Electric 'Shocked' by No-Neg Policy   Mr. Electric 'Shocked' by No-Neg Policy


Wed Jun 18 15:53:02 2008

I'm shocked there aren't more sellers like "Disgruntled eBayer" ... The "no negative" policy is one thing, but having "neutrals count like negatives was enough to turn my perfect reputation to 99.7%.

I filed with the better business bureau ( in complaint of the DECEPTIVE PRACTICE that eBay has purposely and deceptively confused the term "feedback PERCENTAGE" with "feedback SCORE" in its feedback rating system. eBay touts that "A neutral rating does not change the Feedback SCORE." Yes, that's true but deceptive and confusing. While the feedback "SCORE" does not change, eBay has omitted that the feedback "PERCENTAGE" does change as a result of receiving neutrals. The omission is for eBay's own benefit in that lower seller scores also equate to fewer powerseller discounts.

Mr. Electric 'Shocked' by No-Neg Policy   Mr. Electric 'Shocked' by No-Neg Policy

by: Tom Printy

Wed Jun 18 17:39:42 2008

Would sellers use and off ebay site where they could leave comments about buyers?


Mr. Electric 'Shocked' by No-Neg Policy   Mr. Electric 'Shocked' by No-Neg Policy

by: texaseyes

Wed Jun 18 18:35:50 2008

I agree Mr. Electric.  I just had a customer (with less than 10 feedbacks) who left me a negative feedback because he didn't like the format of the video he bought.  I had described it in detail, but I guess he didn't read it or didn't care.  He filed with PayPal for a refund.  Now he has my video, a claim with PayPal and I can't let other selller know about him.  

Mr. Electric 'Shocked' by No-Neg Policy   Mr. Electric 'Shocked' by No-Neg Policy

by: ETexas

Wed Jun 18 19:05:24 2008

I am shocked that I can no longer look at a buyers ''track record'' to gauge if I want to enter a ''Trading Partnership'' with them. My no response no pays have increased lately and I think part of this is due to the fact that Ebay will not ban a buyer for periodic no pays, and now sellers cannot give each other a heads up.
I like the idea of contacting the BBB re: feedback. I DO NOT like the new DSR set up where customers are told a 4 is ''good'' but sellers are told a less than 4.7 avg is ''Bad''.

Mr. Electric 'Shocked' by No-Neg Policy   Mr. Electric 'Shocked' by No-Neg Policy

by: E Texas

Wed Jun 18 19:10:06 2008

in Resp to Tom Printy's question I think the answer is the DROVES of sellers currently using the Summer lull to  move to different sites. Before the feedback changes I was about to open a ebay store, after waiting and seeing how the new feedback is "working" I am now opening an estore on another site that DOES allow feedback and is small enough to have not become so wrapped up in useless features and extras that it's strangling itself.

Mr. Electric 'Shocked' by No-Neg Policy   Mr. Electric 'Shocked' by No-Neg Policy

by: Henrietta

Thu Jun 19 01:46:41 2008

Oh Ina!



Mr. Electric 'Shocked' by No-Neg Policy   Mr. Electric 'Shocked' by No-Neg Policy

by: Patricia

Thu Jun 19 02:09:03 2008

Dear Mr. Electric - I suggest you get a good pair of shoes with asbestos soles - you'll be walking on hot coals right along with the rest of us sellers!

Mr. Electric 'Shocked' by No-Neg Policy   Mr. Electric 'Shocked' by No-Neg Policy

by: Tim

Thu Jun 19 07:52:38 2008

Don't Tase me Bro!

Mr. Electric 'Shocked' by No-Neg Policy   Mr. Electric 'Shocked' by No-Neg Policy

by: Aerbay

Thu Jun 19 09:59:00 2008

We have been selling on eBay for over 5 years and have averaged about 175k in total sales per year over this time period.  We have to say that we have made a business decision to leave eBay for other sales channels.  We currently have two web sites and three more in development that will address our product niches.  We also have an active presence on Amazon as a featured merchant.

Why are we leaving?  The recent changes in feedback have certainly been a factor.  We currently have a 99.7 rating, but since the changes have been put into place we have been challenged with buyers threatening with negative feedback for non-paid items.  We have had buyers string out their payments and this is starting to affect cash flow.  After looking at our numbers, 18% of gross sales goes directly to eBay and that is leaving less and less for us to operate a profitable business on this platform.  Also the cost to service a “sale” on the eBay platform is far more than our other sales channels.  Buyers want rock bottom prices with Macy’s level service.  All marketplace dynamics constantly shift and change – it is our realization that the eBay platform is not suited to our business any longer.  Our .02

Mr. Electric 'Shocked' by No-Neg Policy   Mr. Electric 'Shocked' by No-Neg Policy

by: out-of-the-attic-2u

Thu Jun 19 13:02:50 2008

Its a shame there is only a win win for buyers and ebay. They should get rid of feedback altoghter and just go by the DSR

Mr. Electric 'Shocked' by No-Neg Policy   Mr. Electric 'Shocked' by No-Neg Policy

by: V

Thu Jun 19 13:15:37 2008

MermaidMonkeys, I have news for you - eBay sits on the Board of Directors of BBB...
Ironic, isn't it?

Mr. Electric 'Shocked' by No-Neg Policy   Mr. Electric 'Shocked' by No-Neg Policy

by: Paul Trosko

Thu Jun 19 13:39:46 2008

I fear the changes to feedback myself. I just had 4 non paying bidders and I filed the NPB forms, got my fees refunded and even then, I still cannot leave negative feedback. How are the sellers going to identify the problem non paying customers without negatives? It is now a HUGE secret! I think they need to make some adjustments, especially with non paying bidders...


Mr. Electric 'Shocked' by No-Neg Policy   Mr. Electric 'Shocked' by No-Neg Policy

by: Matt Price

Thu Jun 19 13:43:21 2008

The unfortunate part of the policy is that no matter how you look at it, it simply rewards people for doing bad things.

We had several NPB and we could do nothing  about it but file a NPB complaint.  Unfortunately since they have played with the feedback system so much, even that did not stop the person from getting a positive.

I am not going to say that it is not fair.  But I think that the feedback system needs to have a 360 degree view and not he-said she-said.

Mr. Electric 'Shocked' by No-Neg Policy   Mr. Electric 'Shocked' by No-Neg Policy

by: MovingOn

Thu Jun 19 14:07:18 2008

V- Where did you get information to see that EBay sits on the Board at the BBB? I can't seem to see them listed as part of the Board of Directors

Mr. Electric 'Shocked' by No-Neg Policy   Mr. Electric 'Shocked' by No-Neg Policy

by: Rich

Thu Jun 19 14:08:50 2008

I am also a seller on ebay have drop my FBR back from 100% to 99% in just a short time,I just went thru a couple disputes with the new ebay buyer that ebay has brought in,the one that has been the worst is the guys that bought a boat part and complained it was broken,everything was checked out before the sale and working fine,he emailed me and wanted me to give him a refund,I told him to ship it back and I would give him a full refund,but instead he file a dispute and felt that I should pay return shipping plus and Xtra $20.00 I refused and would only refund his original moneys,he never replyed to paypal,just left Neg.feed back then emailed me on my personal email that he had no intentions on sending it back,so I called Ebay and wanted the feed back removed and of course have not heard from them even with the calls to them,they say they cant do anything aboutthe feed back,I guess extortion is part of the new ebay policy its ok for the buyers to use,ebay better wake up soon I also have stop selling to old for the new ebay hassels

Mr. Electric 'Shocked' by No-Neg Policy   Mr. Electric 'Shocked' by No-Neg Policy

by: Fedup

Thu Jun 19 17:48:49 2008

I'm a powerseller and am currently working on my website.  I have saved EVERY paid message from paypal, why?  I knew Ebay was going in this direction a few years back and began preparing.  Now i have well over 4,000 customer emails!  I will offer:
Better prices
Bigger selection
Cheaper shipping

SELLERS:   Go to  it offers us some protection ebay will not provide!  It compiles blocked bidder lists from other sellers then you can download the names!  
If you visit the site you'll see there are filters, guidlines and more.
You can also check a potential customer bidding on your item, see if other sellers have already reported them, if so, cancel their bid and promptly block them.
Pass the word, the more sellers that use it the more effective it will become. This is our best protection, lets join together to provide ''a level playing field''.

good luck to all!

Mr. Electric 'Shocked' by No-Neg Policy   Mr. Electric 'Shocked' by No-Neg Policy

by: shary

Thu Jun 19 19:39:44 2008

I have been working on getting my new software released and have been unable to do both obligations, but want to diversify into other markets.  I would like to get out of the market all together, but I am disabled and there are few other choices for me.  I think it is really terrible that the neutrals count the same weight as the negatives and I have even read some of the forums that claim that if the buyer does not leave feedback at all it also is included into the equation as well.  I have been selling since 1998 and this is the final straw for me.  I either am going to unload my entire inventory or just not reorder (yet a $5000 order came in today I forgot I ordered in November).  I do not know for sure what they want to accomplish, but having 3 college degrees (2 in business), a normal business has a 10 year life.  I do not know if they are trying to revamp to avoid this, but although I am a power seller, what the heck does that little star do for me?  They hand you a star and it is supposed to make you feel like a kindergartner?  They do not want our business, but what I think the thing that they are not taking into consideration is that their best buyers are also the sellers they are treating so badly.
I have resigned myself to the fact that with the rewards they are giving buyers for leaving negatives that they will succeed in getting our ratings down so before the negatives really hurt my pride as I feel I do everything possible to help my buyers in the event of a problem, there are always jerks that will attempt to abuse the system and I for one will not fall for it.  If eBay wants to play hard ball, I am changing a lot of things.
1) I used to leave feedback immediately when the customer paid and I will only do it now for the new seller.  Remember how good it felt to get your first feedback?  But I find that it is the new buyers that have the most complaints.
2) I am adding a 20% restocking fee if they want to return an item.  If they complain, I will refund my profit only and then file a NPB which in eBay’s own words is the only thing that will remove a negative.
3) I have been informing my customers why I have made my changes.
4) since we are no longer allowed to provide links to our outside sales pages, I am going to be using my new video program to present a video on my about me page to tell them where to go find my items (the spiders will not find that out) and will word it such that other sellers will not have much to stand on when trying to turn me in for non compliance.
5) I will be adding a handling fee for my postage.  That was something out of my hands and the costs involved I was eating and still getting only a 4.7 rating (fairly standard).  I refuse to increase my prices and offer free shipping just so eBay can get another chunk of my profits.
If they want me gone, I will eventually leave, but not without kicking!
Keep an eye out for  It is the most efficient and best program out there. Once you have the movie on your computer and you do your first one to test it out and find out how it works, it should not take more than 2 minutes to have it on the web once you learn the program unless you have a LONG video.
Thank you for having this forum and letting me vent, I have been listening and pondering, but this is the first I have actually posted.

Mr. Electric 'Shocked' by No-Neg Policy   Mr. Electric 'Shocked' by No-Neg Policy

by: shay

Thu Jun 19 19:45:25 2008

Sorry guys, forgot to mention the program is ALMOST ready to go out.  We are just trying to get all legal paperwork in order and marketing prices and Strategies in place.  If you go to my eBay "vintageaddict2" you will be the first to be noticed (It will work on all websites), is at best 400 times faster upload and download than you tube and if you sign up for my newsletter you will also get a discount!

Mr. Electric 'Shocked' by No-Neg Policy   Mr. Electric 'Shocked' by No-Neg Policy

by: csul

Thu Jun 19 22:08:01 2008

That web address is, not

Interestingly, some very naughty sellers put their competitor's names on there as well. As I find them, I email the seller to let them know someone has played a dirty game with them. Worth it to check periodically.

Isn't this nice, the way they have pitted buyer against seller and seller against seller?

Mr. Electric 'Shocked' by No-Neg Policy   Mr. Electric 'Shocked' by No-Neg Policy

by: Dave

Fri Jun 20 00:35:18 2008

If you want ebay to allow sellers to leave a neg for bad buyers...BOYCOTT BOYCOTT BOYCOTT.

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