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Mon June 9 2008 09:28:38

PayPal's Independence Day

By: Ina Steiner

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Aaron Baar of Online Media Daily profiles PayPal's first Chief Marketing Officer Barry Herstein, hired in December. The title of the article: "PayPal's First CMO Sees Stronger Identity Apart From Ebay." These lines are interesting:

While Herstein said PayPal will not look to distance itself from eBay, it will look to create its own identity that extends beyond its parent.


That includes following people beyond eBay's boundaries. "People who shop on eBay shop and sell off eBay," Herstein said. "We need to follow them."

In 2002, PayPal was acquired to help facilitate trade on eBay. In 2008, with eBay moving toward PayPal-only marketplace, is it now a case of eBay helping PayPal with adoption and customer acquisition? It has long seemed acquiring PayPal was the best move Meg Whitman was forced into making.

I wonder if we'll see a new marketing campaign from PayPal beyond the promos it (and Google Checkout) run with online merchants.

Comments (29) | Permalink

Readers Comments

PayPal's Independence Day   PayPal's Independence Day

by: tj

Mon Jun 9 09:49:05 2008

Paypal has a long way to go to get rid of its scammer/fraud chargeback image…..a system that’s so full of glitches it a wonder the payment service works at all.

Anyone who has been a victim of PP fraud understands all too well how rubbish the system is.>>> Me thinks they are somewhat nervous of all the competition coming their way LOL

PayPal's Independence Day   PayPal's Independence Day

by: tj

Mon Jun 9 09:54:13 2008

That includes following people beyond eBay's boundaries. "People who shop on eBay shop and sell off eBay," Herstein said. "We need to follow them."
Yes so we can limit your account & scr@w your business away from eBay…I will NEVER use PP on any website I run it’s far too dangerous as a seller

PayPal's Independence Day   PayPal's Independence Day

by: Ted

Mon Jun 9 10:38:16 2008

You people mean to tell me that Google Checkout (or any other payment system) has NEVER had one incident of fraud? Not one? Ever?

I don't think ANY system is that air tight. Paypal may not be the best, but I certainly don't see the problems the vocal minority complain about. I guess I'm lucky? Never had a chargeback, never had a scam, never had ANY problem, and I've been using it since it was in existence.

PayPal's Independence Day   PayPal's Independence Day

by: dimes

Mon Jun 9 10:40:35 2008

Everyone loves paypal until they get screwed.  

I wonder how many eBay sellers would choose to accept paypal over google checkout, given the choice (which they are not).

PayPal's Independence Day   PayPal's Independence Day

by: angryjim

Mon Jun 9 10:51:06 2008

Will Mr. Herstein be scalping any soccer tickets on eBay?

PayPal's Independence Day   PayPal's Independence Day

by: Patricia

Mon Jun 9 12:04:05 2008

Right now, Paypal is a lot healthier then Ebay.  I think part of Ebay's success in the future will be tied to the continued success of Paypal.  I believe this is why they're forcing it on new sellers and on a whole country (australia) - they intend to eventually make paypal the only form of payment in all of Ebay.  Donahoe is sitting back dreaming of all those Paypal FEES!

PayPal's Independence Day   PayPal's Independence Day

by: Lars

Mon Jun 9 12:24:41 2008


Lure em in the front, stab in the alley and bury them in the backyard. That seems to be the nature of Ebays business.  

The model stinks and if Ebay were to get there head straight, they would charge one fee to sell on Ebay and that would include processing the payment.

So I will add DoubleDipBay to the growing list of other names Ebay has attached to itself by fostering an atmosphere of distrust.

Google will prevail on customer loyalty alone.

PayPal's Independence Day   PayPal's Independence Day

by: tj

Mon Jun 9 12:53:55 2008

You are very lucky.
PP for me have been a nightmare frozen accounts with $20,000+ etc etc is no joke & totally stupid...after 180 days all is ok here's your money >>>WHAT!!!
I mail international & have a trail of scammer chargebacks, registered mailing details even when faxed to PP mean zero to them, PP want you to use fedex etc to send a $10 idiots & rubbish service and as all eBay Inc business's, we the sellers are their customers who get the cr@p all the time

PayPal's Independence Day   PayPal's Independence Day

by: Ted

Mon Jun 9 13:20:41 2008


''Everyone loves paypal until they get screwed.''

OK, point taken. I won't deny that. I just don't think it's as bad as it's made out to be. Another user commented that Paypal is ''healthier'' than eBay is, and on that, I agree.

''I wonder how many eBay sellers would choose to accept Paypal over Google checkout, given the choice (which they are not).''

Dimes: explain to me how Google Checkout works. What is the primary difference between it, and Paypal? I honestly do not know. Would I use one over the other? I couldn't answer that without knowing the differences, so tell me.


I probably have been lucky, and I'm NOT denying that there have been problems. My point was that I don't think any service could be ''scam free'' or without ''holes'' that could be gamed. I also don't think the percentage of users with troubles is that high. If millions of people use a system, and 0.1% have a problem, that's still a lot of people, and a very vocal group which tends to skew the results. I'm sorry to hear you are one of those that did have a problem. I will count myself lucky.

PayPal's Independence Day   PayPal's Independence Day

by: snifferboy

Mon Jun 9 13:45:38 2008

a note to ted near the top of the page;
just because YOU'VE had a good experience with paypal (one of the few i've heard of so i'd call YOU the minority) doesn't justify making it COMPULSORY for ME.

australia is the proving ground for this new scheme but has struck major problems due to issues of anti-competitive behaviour with the ACCC (australian competition and consumer commission).

the move is not yet a sealed deal.

but think about it people.
you can go on youtube and find tutorials about hacking paypal. you can download torrents on how to do so and get tools to help (so i'm told).
when was the last time that happened for westpac? the national? anz bank? the commonwealth bank?

i have had ZERO difficulty in five years. i have had ONE non payer and she therefore didn't get sent the item and a non paying bidder alert was put in.

paypal has been around for ten years, possibly less. my bank, the commonwealth, has been around for about 200 years. the major banks are all over security like you wouldn't believe and should a hacker try it on they will be tackled immediately.


1. are in a jurisdiction that is offshore to australia.. hard to prosecute

2. a vapid global entity with more holes than a tennis racket

3. lacks separation from eBay, an entity that in my experience displays little or no interest in resolving issues with members.

this has nothing to do with security and EVERYTHING to do with consolidating profits and propping up eBay's sagging share price at the expense of customer choice.

if people want to use paypal .. good luck to 'em ... just don't FORCE it on me. doesn't ebay come from america? the land of the FREE? freedom and democracy are intertwined.

Here is the link to the petition.>
MUST sign the petition else can sign it for you.

PayPal's Independence Day   PayPal's Independence Day

by: Laura

Mon Jun 9 14:17:42 2008

There is a huge difference between "no site is 100% safe" and the blatant disregard for the sellers concerns.  Paypal demonstrates that it does NOT care if things are resolved fairly or honestly for the seller.

If a buyer does a charge back Paypal STILL makes money off the seller. Paypal charges at least a buck for each chargeback!  

PayPal's Independence Day   PayPal's Independence Day

by: dimes

Mon Jun 9 15:14:04 2008

From a buyer's standpoint, google checkout is almost identical to paypal if a payment is being funded by a credit card.

Unlike paypal, checkout does not include a 'stored value' aspect (account balance/bank account) - it's a credit-card-only payment processor.

As a seller, you may want to take a look at its features and compare them to paypal.

Transaction fees are slightly less expensive than paypal, but from what I understand the real advantage to sellers is its tie-in with google adwords - for every dollar you spend on adwords, you get free cc processing of $10.

eBay sellers who use 3rd party checkout services can offer google checkout on every purchase - it's only the sellers who use eBay's checkout system who are prevented from doing so.

I've used both paypal and google to pay for eBay purchases, and there was absolutely no difference in the ease and speed of paying.

(FYI, the way sellers avoid violating eBay's 'google ban' is to offer it to buyers in email that's not sent through eBay's messaging system.)

Perhaps a seller who uses checkout can address the protocol google follows in authorizing transactions and handling chargebacks.

PayPal's Independence Day   PayPal's Independence Day

by: Ted

Mon Jun 9 15:17:35 2008


Just to be clear: I am AGAINST making Paypal compulsory in ANY of the markets. I am a US seller, and while I prefer to have payments made by Paypal, I DO NOT want it to be the ONLY method accepted. It is MY choice that I want to accept Paypal, but I do not want my buyers choices taken away. 98% of my buyers use Paypal, for the 2% that still prefer to send a check or a MO, I don't want their  choice taken away.

So I'm with you in that regard.

I'm not with you in that I am the minority being that I have not had a problem. That just doesn't wash, sorry.

PayPal's Independence Day   PayPal's Independence Day

by: Ted

Mon Jun 9 15:20:08 2008


What I meant was ''where does the money go when someone makes payment''? I like the Paypal aspect of how it stays in a central account and I can spend/send money from that.

PayPal's Independence Day   PayPal's Independence Day

by: bite me

Mon Jun 9 17:17:06 2008

@ tj

Isn't it kind of stupid to have $20k in a "bank" which really isn't one?

PayPal's Independence Day   PayPal's Independence Day

by: Tired

Mon Jun 9 19:44:59 2008

PayPal better ''follow'' the customers because with everyone leaving eBay won't leave them much LOL.

The policies towards the seller is horrible they don't give a cr@p just like eBay doesn't give a cr@p about the seller!

I look at eBay and PayPal as ''Garbage in Garbage out''  

On a positive note they do have better customer service than eBay.

PayPal's Independence Day   PayPal's Independence Day

by: RicRoe

Mon Jun 9 23:58:22 2008

PayPal needs to address service issues before trying to follow sellers that have moved to other venues.

I have recently discontinued all selling on eBay and now list on blujay and eCrater where there are no fees.

I have also found that buyers on these venues prefer Google Checkout over PayPal in 8 out of 10 transactions.

I will be eliminating PayPal from my listings due to the higher fees, and if it cost me a few sales, I am fine with that.

List free, sell a little less, but make higher is a pleasure to have escaped eBay and PayPal' horrible service and inflated fees.

I can actually have fun selling on the Internet again.

PayPal's Independence Day   PayPal's Independence Day

by: mimi85

Tue Jun 10 00:24:05 2008

Yep, PP definitely has it's problems, but I've been using Google Checkout with my small website and it has pretty much zip customer service. It's FAR behind the capabilities of PP, check out the Google Merchant Forums. There is a reason the fees are a bit less.

PayPal's Independence Day   PayPal's Independence Day

by: Henrietta

Tue Jun 10 04:36:43 2008

@bite me

Paypal has Money Market accounts. Before PP changed the TOS the MM account was a good deal with better interest rates than for example Vanguard or SLH which aren't banks either. If you had any money then you too would know that banks give by far the worst ROI if you also want account liquidity. Banks prefer to make money off you.

When PP changed the TOS I pulled my funds out and into a brokerage MM account because PP became too risky.

@ Ted : Google Checkout automatically sweeps your payments into your designated bank account within about 48 hours. It is one way traffic and free of charge. You can spend it from there using your debit card. Your customers don't have to join anything. I found the checkout process much faster. I don't have to keep clicking YES I do want to use my card over and over.

I had not thought Google customer service was much good either and am always amused when people beg Google to start auctions.

GC is 2/3 cost of PP and there is the ad words offer which is worth having.

PayPal's Independence Day   PayPal's Independence Day

by: Henrietta

Tue Jun 10 04:45:53 2008

Before eBay bought PayPal it was a good company with good customer service. It has gone downhill. If PayPal were independent of eBay, and not tied to eBay TOS but thinking more about fiduciary responsibilities to their customers, (ie the ones who pay them)
I think a lot of this wingnut refund the unhappy customer who wants to have the goods for free and never mind you have proof of delivery, would stop.

Meanwhile, with the latest change in TOS allowing PayPal to hold funds if they 'think' (and we all know they are incapable of thinking in any normal sense of the word) none of that sissy stuff about proof or innocent until proven guilty. Huh uh.

Thanks but no thanks.

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