AuctionBytes Blog
Covering auctions, collectibles and marketplace selling.

AuctionBytes Blog The AuctionBytes Blog has been giving a voice to online merchants since its launch in 2005. Named one of the world's top 30 blogs in 2008 by "Blogging Heroes." Weigh in with your thoughts on the joys and pitfalls of selling online.
Sun July 16 2023 20:13:03

Brands Go Beyond Takedowns and Start Suing Sellers

By: Ina Steiner

Sponsored Link

Seller Facebook groups and industry forums are full of posts from resellers who can't wait to share their thrift store, yard sale and bin finds, complete with pictures and the prices they paid. 

Brand-name handbags, sneakers and even Pokeman cards are a few of the items that sellers often cite as "BOLO." (Be On the Look Out). And as often as not, when warned that their pictures indicate the items look like fakes, resellers don't take it well. Sometimes the seller says they'll turn to a different platform or say they will note in the listing that the item is a fake or a knockoff.

Those were never good decisions, but now, they could have extremely costly consequences, including the loss of their platform accounts - and sizeable financial penalties.

Even when an item is authentic, reselling branded goods can get a seller in trouble. An eBay seller told us he owes tens of thousands of dollars because he listed an item purchased at a thrift store that the brand owner claimed was counterfeit.

Until recently, the risk of selling an item picked up at a thrift store or yard sale - or from unauthorized suppliers - was that a brand might issue a takedown notice to the marketplace where it was listed. Sellers know this practice, called VeRO on eBay, and simply continue on.

But now brands are suing merchants instead of just reporting their listings to the marketplaces in a practice that one expert said was weaponizing the legal system.

When sellers in these cases are finally notified they've been sued, the judge has already granted an injunction and ordered the marketplace to freeze their accounts and the sellers' funds.

Sellers don't understand what's happening, and if they don't respond quickly, they lose by default and are required to pay the brand significant sums of money as well as losing their marketplace accounts.

The seller cited above who reached out to us said he was having panic attacks and ultimately asked us not to use his information, but we were able to publish an article about the lawsuits, called Schedule A Defendant (SAD) schemes, because his story has been replicated in thousands of lawsuits brought by numerous brands against hundreds of defendants at a time.

This isn't limited to resellers - brands are targeting merchants on Amazon, Walmart, AliExpress, Alibaba, Wish, and other platforms.

Don't let what you know about VeRO and marketplace takedowns keep you from recognizing this new serious trademark-infringement threat. Take a look at today's article - "Small Sellers Are Getting Swept Up as Brands Weaponize the Legal System" - where we took an indepth look into the practice, and let us know if you have questions and what you think of SAD schemes.

Comments (30) | Leave Comment | Permalink
Readers Comments

Perminate Link for Brands Go Beyond Takedowns and Start Suing Sellers   Brands Go Beyond Takedowns and Start Suing Sellers

by: Fruitylovesyou This user has validated their user name.

Mon Jul 17 19:26:22 2023

No these brands if they have the court issuing freezes the marketplaces will be happy. The brands will call out everyone touching their brand and that's because none of them want independents flipping and these judges what a crock. Since I don't imagine this will go away I would like to know the brand names so I know what not to buy and some more detail like court filings since they are doing mass lawsuits. Gonna be just like Budweiser backlash

And again any of you actually hoping for the marketplaces to swoop in, you are in for a rude awakening... You are being exterminated because the brand wants your seat. And eBay will be more than happy to have them.  This is just like the Dalek invasion on Doctor Who

Perminate Link for Brands Go Beyond Takedowns and Start Suing Sellers   Brands Go Beyond Takedowns and Start Suing Sellers

by: Fruitylovesyou This user has validated their user name.

Mon Jul 17 19:51:30 2023

And I would say maybe flag the EFF to start watching this. First doctrine they have joined with Public Citizen in the past and filed briefs to the courts

I remember years ago the robot signing where the mortgage companies or services were filing phony lawsuits doctoring info and basically filing without having basic information. You start using court resources because you suspect the seller has counterfeits you are abusing the court system and taxpayer dollars. This is getting me very upset

Perminate Link for Brands Go Beyond Takedowns and Start Suing Sellers   Brands Go Beyond Takedowns and Start Suing Sellers

by: pace306 This user has validated their user name.

Mon Jul 17 20:32:29 2023

"I make sure now to get a Letter of Authorization that clearly states that I'm allowed to sell their products on marketplaces and make them specify which marketplaces."

Both the Lanham Act and the First Sale Doctrine - not to mention Kirtsaeng, ALL state that as a seller - as long as its a legal item (not drugs etc) and that it was legally obtained - you do NOT need permission from the rights holder (maker) as their rights are exhausted after the first sale. Its "black & white" letter law.

But companies are greedy and they lie. They incorrectly use Copyright and Trademark laws to beat up on small sellers. MOST people dont have the wherewithal to fight, dont have the money to defend themselves, and most times arent guilty of anything.

Like eBays picture racket aka VEROing people for simply using the FAIR USE provisions of the law - it "has to start somewhere" and if its online its really only eBay and Amazon.

While I beat up on eBay 24/7 (like they do to sellers), Amazon in alot of cases is MUCH worse - even though they themselves have MANY fake items onsite...'

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=multi+game+console&crid=1
5PZJ8Y1L4WCM&sprefix=multi+game+%2Caps%2C153&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-doa-p_3_11

That
ENTIRE category is full of copyright and trademark issues. NOT ONE of the games on these items are licensed ...... but kick a seller off for one stupid mistake instead!

eBay got it wrong - because VERO became pay for play - another mafia tactic from the "boys in San Jose".

"So many items are used, or close-outs, overstock. Trailer Tuesdays, grey-market goods"

And Amazon resellers of their items (sold via auction etc) now carry LESS of certain brands.

You used to be able to get (in the sale of the assets they want to sell/auction) Nikon, Canon, Fiio, Casio and many others. Those makers have put a clause in their agreements that NONE of their items are allowed to be resold and ALL must come back to them.

THAT is a legal method of not having your items appear on the secondary market, but lieing , cheating and faking things is NOT the way it should be done.


If they want to use the method mentioned above on the Chinese sellers who sell fakes - fine - BUT NOT small time honest sellers who do nothing wrong.

Perminate Link for Brands Go Beyond Takedowns and Start Suing Sellers   Brands Go Beyond Takedowns and Start Suing Sellers

This user has validated their user name. by: Rexford

Tue Jul 18 11:49:02 2023

It's high time that small sellers formed some sort of union.  I'd gladly pay dues. There is safety in numbers.  It is hard to fight something like this on your own but if you had the power of a union -like organization behind you with a cadre of attorneys those greedy brands would likely back off.

Perminate Link for Brands Go Beyond Takedowns and Start Suing Sellers   Brands Go Beyond Takedowns and Start Suing Sellers

by: Fruitylovesyou This user has validated their user name.

Tue Jul 18 18:10:34 2023

Pace all your posts here are spot on. Your Kung Fu is strong!

Perminate Link for Brands Go Beyond Takedowns and Start Suing Sellers   Brands Go Beyond Takedowns and Start Suing Sellers

by: pace306 This user has validated their user name.

Wed Jul 19 08:59:57 2023

Fruity :) - ty!

I LOVE going up against the mafioso's in San Jose - thats why I was genuinely surprised Devin & Co sent people to harass the Steiners and not me! (the Steiners did nothing where as I bad mouth them as much as possible and try to get people not to buy their stock).

I havent found any small seller "from middle America" that went through this treatment from the brands - but it doesnt mean that it didnt happen or that it wont.

When I was accused of selling fakes - I had "all my ducks in a row" and embarrassed the hell out of both the company that made the charge and eBay. No apology or reimbursements - but it did get them off my case with "selling fakes" - cause they knew Id file a case here on the East Coast demanding "summary judgement" and turn it into a real circus.

But "selling fakes" isnt eBay/Vero's only game - they use it to restrict selling items overseas (even with eBays own programs). The last trick they pulled (which I didnt fight - I didnt have a good supply of the items so it didnt make sense to go to court) was telling me that I was "a crim inal" because I was IMPORTING items into the EU without a license/contract. What? yes IMPORTING. The english makes no sense (Im EXPORTING - the BUYER is importing) and the treaty that they claimed I violated stated in clear english that the US wasnt part of it - but the DOPES in VERO (your goldfish is smarter then they are) didnt care. I let it go - but should it change - Im ready for the next round.

Im not fond of bullies (maybe its the military in me and my family) and eBay (and the brands) have become bullies.

Ive been a seller online since 1998 and I have NEVER ONCE been sued by any company directly for anything (no reason to - I have invoices for EVERYTHING). I violated no rules, laws, nothing - I just post items for sale - and if its cheaper here in the USA then it is in France (example) then thats not MY fault - lower the taxes there - or the prices - its not MY issue as a US citizen to deal with other countries VAT issues.

Right now - this is a very important issue - but it hasnt yet translated (trickled down) to "us" at ground level - lets see what happens.

And yes - even though I dont like Unions - if sellers are treated as employees - then I'll swallow my price and turn every eBay seller into an SEIU member and bring eBay to its knees - if that would solve things (having sellers have a voice and a seat at the table).

The Grifter was supposed to represent sellers and be that voice - but hes lazy and shiftless - when was the last time you saw him get out in front of an issue (like this) and get it resolved? Never.

Perminate Link for Brands Go Beyond Takedowns and Start Suing Sellers   Brands Go Beyond Takedowns and Start Suing Sellers

by: Snapped This user has validated their user name.

Wed Jul 19 09:32:42 2023

Certified authentic vintage Pan Am travel bags.  Seven words that sum up eBay’s hypocrisy when discussing counterfeits, and mass produced copies so massively prevalent on the site these days.  

They actually advertised the fact they were sharing their sales and relevant product attribute data with ‘foreign’ manufacturers so they would know what to produce and list (on eBay of course).  Many posters here may remember this.  And it wasn’t limited to that one item, it’s just the one that got all the press.  

Perminate Link for Brands Go Beyond Takedowns and Start Suing Sellers   Brands Go Beyond Takedowns and Start Suing Sellers

This user has validated their user name. by: Rexford

Wed Jul 19 18:38:01 2023

"Certified authentic vintage Pan Am travel bags."

I remember that well.  Owning up to having them counterfeited.

Perminate Link for Brands Go Beyond Takedowns and Start Suing Sellers   Brands Go Beyond Takedowns and Start Suing Sellers

by: Fruitylovesyou This user has validated their user name.

Wed Jul 19 21:43:19 2023

Grief should retire. I'm surprised there hasn't been a class action against him. Tokens shouldn't talk

Perminate Link for Brands Go Beyond Takedowns and Start Suing Sellers   Brands Go Beyond Takedowns and Start Suing Sellers

by: Jon M This user has validated their user name.

Wed Jul 19 23:49:08 2023

May have already been said, but I learned a number of years ago that if I listed these ''suspect'' items as used/preowned (not new or new/other); that this stopped my items from being taken down.  I think the issue is with sellers claiming their items as NEW.  Also, I suspect the Supreme Court ruling and State laws favor those who understand that they're a second-hand seller, and as such should be representing their wares as pre-owned.  

Click to view more comments
1 2 


Login is required to post comments.
To sign in to leave a comment, fill in the form below. If you have not yet signed up for AB Verify, or if you'd like more information, go to the Registration Page
.

Login for AB Verify
Be sure and use your email address and password to log in.

 
Email:
Password:
 
 Forgot Your Password?
 Even though you are signed in with the AuctionBytes Blog, you will have to sign in to the EcommerceBytes blog. But you can sign in with your existing AB Verify info.