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Sat Dec 2 2017 22:59:42

PayPal Lawsuit Raises the Issue of Fee Transparency

By: Ina Steiner

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This is one for online sellers to watch - A Canadian man sued PayPal Canada "alleging that the online payments company charges Canadians hidden currency conversion fees, violating its user agreement," according to the Canadian Press (via CBC).

Lawyers for the PayPal user is trying to get class certification

The newswire noted that none of the allegations have been proven, and says PayPal Canada did not immediately respond to its requests for comment.

The allegations are specific in this case, but it brings attention to the difficulties online merchants face in tracking fees assessed by payments firms and online marketplaces. If you sell on multiple channels using multiple payment methods, shipping services and tools, and you use paid search, it can be quite a task making sure each service is assessing the correct fees.

Do you routinely check the accuracy of fees assessed to your accounts?

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Readers Comments

PayPal Lawsuit Raises the Issue of Fee Transparency   PayPal Lawsuit Raises the Issue of Fee Transparency

This user has validated their user name. by: Ina

Sat Dec 2 23:07:25 2017

BTW, thanks to the reader who sent me the link to the CBC article!  

PayPal Lawsuit Raises the Issue of Fee Transparency   PayPal Lawsuit Raises the Issue of Fee Transparency

This user has validated their user name. by: Ming the Merciless

Sun Dec 3 16:24:10 2017

Some of PreyPal's line item explanations are quite clear while others are overgeneralized to the point where it's nearly impossible to determine what the charge was for making it impossible to determine the accuracy of the charge(s).

Just the way PreyPal wants it.

PayPal Lawsuit Raises the Issue of Fee Transparency   PayPal Lawsuit Raises the Issue of Fee Transparency

by: pace306 This user has validated their user name.

Sun Dec 3 20:16:06 2017

As Im not Canadian, I cant "see" the issue the OP is talking about - because my sales dont originate and I dont use Paypal CA.

That being said ....... anything you need to know on how Paypal operates .... you can tell from its CEO (at least the US one) who came from  (drum roll please) eBay ... cesspool of the internet.

Should you go to court - you will have to explain to the judge and give DEFINITIVE responses to the losses you are claiming. Judges usually ask for such things when claims like this are made.

TRUST me that Paypal will have its own army of lawyers to explain their positions, so be prepared.

Of course I hope they win. ANY win against the duo of internet destruction is a good win.

Now if Mastercard will just step up its masterpass program - it can eliminate Paypal entirely ..... now THATS a Christmas wish we all could enjoy!

PayPal Lawsuit Raises the Issue of Fee Transparency   PayPal Lawsuit Raises the Issue of Fee Transparency

This user has validated their user name. by: LasVagueness

Mon Dec 4 00:43:23 2017

I once had robust international sales generated by eBay. There is not much to check these days.  

PayPal Lawsuit Raises the Issue of Fee Transparency   PayPal Lawsuit Raises the Issue of Fee Transparency

This user has validated their user name. by: Marie

Mon Dec 4 02:30:09 2017

@lasVagueness

I did too, but as you know, it isn't Ebay's fault we lost that.  It was that enormous USPS rate increase of a few years ago.  That is what killed it.

PayPal Lawsuit Raises the Issue of Fee Transparency   PayPal Lawsuit Raises the Issue of Fee Transparency

by: Tiffee Jasso This user has validated their user name.

Mon Dec 4 02:42:42 2017

I agree. I lost all my international sales when the Post Office almost tripled it rates. I imagine a lot of that has to do with trying to make up for the loss they take with Chinese sellers 31 million parcels. Here again, almost every other country in the world is supposed to pay for the generous and almost free postal service China gets. Something is rotten in the US and no one is fixing it. If it has to do with a Treaty then I think Americans ought to have the same right to join that low postage rate Treaty.
On a side note, the Post Office is going to take a big dive in business if they do take away net neutrality. I for one am not going to pay any more than I do right now to access the internet and I imagine I won't be the only one. I mean, how many are going to be able to pay another fifty to a hundred dollars or even more to access Ebay, Facebook, Twitter, Amazon and other sites. Sells will take a huge downward slide. I am already trying to dump as much as I can before it happens because I doubt anyone will stop the Powers that Be in DC.  

PayPal Lawsuit Raises the Issue of Fee Transparency   PayPal Lawsuit Raises the Issue of Fee Transparency

by: pace306 This user has validated their user name.

Mon Dec 4 09:27:33 2017

While its off top - I agree with the above posters .. International sales have gone from good/ok to zero.

Even GSP sales have disapeared ....

PayPal Lawsuit Raises the Issue of Fee Transparency   PayPal Lawsuit Raises the Issue of Fee Transparency

by: Whatever This user has validated their user name.

Mon Dec 4 11:03:41 2017

So it's all about business right? Well ebay took away 10% from every TRP seller right? Then they took another 10% away from me for late shipments. They paypal takes extra fee from me for international cc's from those tricky chinese who just want to knock off my items using a freight forwarder address in USA - so now I have no  international buyers/shipping and blocked all international credit cards as well (you can do that in paypal)  Am I losing sales? probably but so is ebay.  

PayPal Lawsuit Raises the Issue of Fee Transparency   PayPal Lawsuit Raises the Issue of Fee Transparency

This user has validated their user name. by: Ming the Merciless

Mon Dec 4 14:07:58 2017

Ebay is indeed partially responsible for the decline in international sales: Global Shipping Program.  

PayPal Lawsuit Raises the Issue of Fee Transparency   PayPal Lawsuit Raises the Issue of Fee Transparency

This user has validated their user name. by: Marie

Mon Dec 4 16:58:58 2017

For me, the decline in international sales happened BEFORE the Global Shipping Program was introduced to the site.  It was almost immediate to the ridiculous mega increase done by USPS a few years ago.  

Ebay introduced GSP in an effort to help sellers reduce their exposure on shipping internationally in the hopes of helping to increase international sales as many sellers stop selling internationally due to the risk and the expense of it all.  

Most of my items ship via FCP international when I do actually get a sale.  On Ebay, FCP International is cheaper than any other site I've used.  In 2016 Ebay negotiated a 14% reduction on USPS rates and in 2017 it was 13% in regards to FCP International.  No other site that I'm aware of offers this big of a discount on FCP International.  But still, for me, it isn't enough and I just don't see a come back for international sales with shipping rates what they are.

PayPal Lawsuit Raises the Issue of Fee Transparency   PayPal Lawsuit Raises the Issue of Fee Transparency

This user has validated their user name. by: Marie

Mon Dec 4 16:59:35 2017

Oh and the GSP program is voluntary.  I do not participate in that program.

PayPal Lawsuit Raises the Issue of Fee Transparency   PayPal Lawsuit Raises the Issue of Fee Transparency

This user has validated their user name. by: LasVagueness

Mon Dec 4 18:21:13 2017

I'm not convinced that it was the postal hike. Here's why: when my eBay international sales were robust I only offered USPS Express shipping. I've been offering much cheaper first class international for years now and still they don't bite.  Same inventory, cheaper shipping options and...few international sales.

What's going on?  

PayPal Lawsuit Raises the Issue of Fee Transparency   PayPal Lawsuit Raises the Issue of Fee Transparency

This user has validated their user name. by: Marie

Mon Dec 4 18:50:30 2017

@lasVagueness

That is interesting.  Mine was clearly due to the FCP USPS hike.

Check your dashboard, look at your Global ratings.  See if anything stands out.  I honestly don't know what may be causing this for you, but it is a place to start.

PayPal Lawsuit Raises the Issue of Fee Transparency   PayPal Lawsuit Raises the Issue of Fee Transparency

This user has validated their user name. by: Bill

Tue Dec 5 00:28:34 2017

Yes it was the FCIP rate hike and also the fall of the Euro against the dollar. That caused a a 20% price hike on goods from the US. Euro used to be $1.35 and now it is $1.13.

PayPal Lawsuit Raises the Issue of Fee Transparency   PayPal Lawsuit Raises the Issue of Fee Transparency

This user has validated their user name. by: Ming the Merciless

Tue Dec 5 13:39:49 2017

I think most of us here understand quite well what ebafia's purpose was when they introduced the Global Shipping program.

The Global Shipping Program was mainly a profit center for ebafia that ripped off and consequently turned off most of the remaining international buyers after the USPS are hike.

PayPal Lawsuit Raises the Issue of Fee Transparency   PayPal Lawsuit Raises the Issue of Fee Transparency

This user has validated their user name. by: LasVagueness

Tue Dec 5 16:09:35 2017

@Marie Everything checks out on the dashboard end. Maybe it's a combo of the postal rate hike, Euro conversion, and customs fees that are driving away international buyers.  I can't remember the last time I used a USPS Express Mail box...it's been that long.

PayPal Lawsuit Raises the Issue of Fee Transparency   PayPal Lawsuit Raises the Issue of Fee Transparency

by: fifilapew This user has validated their user name.

Tue Dec 5 19:43:57 2017

Question to any/all;

Why is it, that when I get an order from an International buyer, approximately 1/2 of those order's PM shipping labels cannot be printed off ebay with delivery confirmation. In red print on top of label page ebay states that delivery confirmation is not available for this type of shipping method selected (and I'm referring to Priority Mail)

HOWEVER, a shipping label for that very same country can be printed off the USPS website which includes tracking number AND insurance (most cases up to $200 value for free). This is on USPS Priority Mail packages including Padded Flat Rate Envelopes.

Personally, I feel that ebay is trying to force the GSP down (unsuspecting) sellers throats.

Any feedback/info on this would be greatly appreciated as this issue really baffles me. I ship worldwide and have many lovely repeat International buyers.

Am I missing something here??

Well, Happy Holidays and Safe Sales to All!

PayPal Lawsuit Raises the Issue of Fee Transparency   PayPal Lawsuit Raises the Issue of Fee Transparency

This user has validated their user name. by: Marie

Tue Dec 5 19:52:47 2017

@fifilapew

Although there are MANY sellers that do not like GSP, I being one of them, at least we do NOT have to participate if we don't want to.  I am one of those sellers that do not participate.  My international sales now are no lower than they were before GSP started, so I am of the opinion it has nothing to do with why I don't have more international sales.

While I agree with Ming that GSP is another profit center for Ebay, that IMHO is to be expected because Ebay is a for profit company.  So personally I see nothing wrong with it.  And of course we don't have to participate if we don't want to.

I think the problem you may be experiencing with the labels has far more to do with them not updating the site in a timely manner.  USPS has been adding more countries to their ability to track the items from time to time.  But it is very possible Ebay has not yet updated that info yet.  

That is just a guess on my part as I don't know this for sure.  But Ebay has always been slow to add newer USPS products.  And PP is even slower than Ebay.

PayPal Lawsuit Raises the Issue of Fee Transparency   PayPal Lawsuit Raises the Issue of Fee Transparency

by: fifilapew This user has validated their user name.

Tue Dec 5 20:03:40 2017

Thanks Marie for your comment!

BTW, I also do not participate in the GPS program as many MANY buyers do not like it and feel they are being overcharged.

Funny thing is, I could have sworn that I used to be able to print ebay shipping labels (with Priority Mail delivery confirmation) to MORE countries in the past then I'm able to do so now. Hence my comment regarding ebay 'forcing' the GSP service upon us.

Appreciate everyones very helpful and invaluable insight on so many subjects provided by Ms Ina.

PayPal Lawsuit Raises the Issue of Fee Transparency   PayPal Lawsuit Raises the Issue of Fee Transparency

This user has validated their user name. by: Ming the Merciless

Tue Dec 5 20:50:26 2017

Here's what I believe is the most current list of countries USPS says offer delivery confirmation:

Australia
Austria
Belgium
Brazil
Cana
da
Croatia
Cyprus
Denmark
Estonia
Finland
France
Germany
Gibraltar
Great
Britain and Northern Ireland
Greece
Hungary
Iceland
Israel
Italy
Japan>Latvia
Lebanon
Lithuania
Luxembourg
Malaysia
Malta
Mexico
Netherlands
New
Zealand
Norway
Poland
Portugal
Russia
Saudi Arabia
Serbia, Republic of
Singapore
Slovak Republic (Slovakia)
Slovenia
Spain
Switzerland

Subject to applicable weight and size limits, any article that is otherwise acceptable and not prohibited by the Postal Service or the country of destination may be mailed at the First-Class Package International Service price. The maximum value cannot exceed $400. Items exceeding $400 must be mailed using Global Express Guaranteed service, Priority Mail Express International service, or Priority Mail International service.

 

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